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Subject: OT: Texas Hold 'em Poker Discussion - III
Posted by: Species
- Leader [7724916] Tue, Jul 13, 2004, 13:23
I think there is more than enough interest to have this be an ongoing thing - at a minimum it'll be worthwhile during the WSOP. Continue to post your thoughts, topics, bad beats and great bluffs here. I'll include some of the posts from the previous thread so we don't lose steam - but it was getting pretty long so I figured I would consolidate in a new thread.
94 Promize
ID: 9432612
Tue, Jul 13, 2004, 06:39 Well, I guess I was one of those guys who knew how to play the game, but didn't know how to play it at a casino etc... The casino's I was use to going to didn't offer poker games to much... I played in maybe 5 tourneys total (they had a system to try and make your way to a bigger tourney like Tournament of Champions, etc) Unfortunately, I had to travel back to Missouri so my 18th place in total points is going to be useless come time for the 1 day playoff.
Took me a couple tourneys to understand that playing live hands and playing tourneys are two different things for sure... In the beginning, I was very aggressive and would try and play any hand...
Finally in the tourney I finished 3rd in, was a combination of Moneymaker type river card wins and also understanding patients and waiting for those big hands to go all in on. I actually started getting the knickname Moneymaker when I kept knocking out 1 or 2 guys working my way up to the final table. At one point, while there was 10 people at the final table, and I was probably the short stack... I did get lucky and had pocket Aces... Knocked two people off the table and bam, was back in the running... The hand I was kicked off with I had pocket J's... The other guy flopped A Q... Of course the cards came out 2 8 Q.. That ended my run.
The tourney I came in fourth, patients played the key as I just held out... Played hands I had the best chance to win with (A K, A J, Q Q, etc) and just waited for people to be knocked out. At the final table, I don't even remember playing many hands while I watched the others eliminate each other.
Now that I am back in Missouri, I ran through St. Louis and stopped at the casino's there. To my surprise, the one casino had now started Unlimited Texas Holdem live games... That is a scary thought for me.. The temptation is already burning a whole in my pocket to get up there and win some cash...
95 ChicagoTRS
ID: 16611915
Tue, Jul 13, 2004, 11:11 biliruben - strategy against tight - loose.
The thought on playing loose players is that if you personally tighten up and only play premium hands when you do get in a pot a majority of the time you will have the best of it. I do a modified version of that by loosening up my starting hand requirements (especially when I have a position advantage over the loose players - last to act) but if the flop does not help me I am quickly out of the hand. I am either looking for two great starting cards and betting big or using my position advantage and limping in with any two ok cards and hoping that the flop makes a good hand. By only playing premium hands and premium position I should scoop a high percentage of pots I invest in. It is obviously very tempting to mix it up with the loose players when you have 2nd pairs or draws but this can be very costly as you can rarely put a loose player on a hand and they will end up scooping some big pots on you. The value of hands like suited connectors goes way up when playing at a table with a lot of loose players. Another important point...DO NOT bluff loose calling stations...they will not fold.
As for a very tight table this is a dangerous situation but the reason you can loosen up is you can steal pots/blinds especially with a position advantage. In a tight table it is possible to bluff and represent hands you don't have. Tight players will generally make 'good' laydowns if they think they are beat. Example: I have AQ UTG (bad early position)...I make a $4 raise before the flop...moderately large raise in the particular game. I get two callers. Flop comes 2-2-2...I check...late postion player bets $6...I check raise $12...he calls...turn comes and I come out betting $15...he folds and says your pocket pair must be better than my pocket pair. I didn't have crap but I knew he was a tight player and would get out of the hand if he thought he was beat...if he called my $15 I would have been in trouble (that is why those plays are dangerous). I would never make that play at a loose table as a loose player with a pocket pair in that position would never lay his hand down and if he is very loose he could even have the 4th deuce. The important thing with tight players is let go of your bluff if you get called or reraised (you know you are beat)...also try and get a feel for what you can bet to get people to fold.
Other things to take into consideration...number of players at the table. The less players generally the looser you can play as there are less hands dealt so less chance of great hands and the blinds come around more often so you need to win more hands to make up for your blind fees. Blind/ante amounts...the higher the blinds/ante in proportion to the average pot size the looser you need to play. If the blinds are very high...like late in tournaments the more value in the pot from the beginning. In games like .25 - .50 no limit with a $50 max buy-in...there is hardly anything in the pot to begin with and the pots can get to be $100+ with big hands so you can sit and wait for really premium hands before entering a pot....you can win one nice pot a night and make money. The game obviously makes a big difference also...Limit, No Limit, tournaments all play a little different. In regular cash games you have an unlimited amount of time to make money...in tournaments there is basically a finite amount of hands that will be dealt as the blinds increase so it is important to win more pots and build a stack. If you like playing a loose style look for games that suit your style...shorthanded games, heads up games.
96 Tastethewaste
ID: 105153011
Tue, Jul 13, 2004, 11:55 Matt G post 80 The only hand I played that I got beat by good cards, was the AA suited... but how often does that happen???
AA Suited never happens. If it did you really did have a bad night:)
97 Promize
ID: 9432612
Tue, Jul 13, 2004, 12:16 A A suited, sort of sounds like someone had a few cards up their sleeves! LOL
98 Matt G
ID: 19554168
Tue, Jul 13, 2004, 13:19 Sorry I meant to say AA in the hole, my bad... hahaha
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| 73 | GoatLocker
ID: 205472715
Thu, Jul 22, 2004, 10:03
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The final is the $10,000 buy in game.
Just enter your name and play if I understand right.
Some won their seats via either live or internet Satellite.(Tournaments that they got into for much cheaper.)
There is a book called "Positively 5th Street" written by an author named Jim McManus that played in WSOP 2000. His editor gave him some seed money to write articles about WSOP and the murder trial of Ted Binion.
He actually made the final table.
Does a real good job of giving insite on that particular tournament.
Cliff
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| 74 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 48624198
Thu, Jul 22, 2004, 10:08
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TaRhEElKid...the event I placed 7th in was sort of a freeroll. Invite only to the 500 players who had played the most raked hands in the past 2 weeks. I think there was 25K in prize money (not sure about that maybe it was less) and probably around 450 people played. I sort of limped into the final table with a smaller stack...was happy a few people got eliminated before me as everytime someone was eliminated it was like an extra $150 in my prize winnings.
In the nightly $1000 freerolls I have made the final table 4-5 times...best finish was 5th. Have had some awful bad beats on those final tables...I will win one of these days. But even making the final table in these events is a nice little payday...I think $40 for 10th and then escalates from there and these freerolls only have like ~500 players so there are not that many people that it is impossible to do well. The freerolls start at midnight central...so I really only get to seriously play them on the weekends...during the week I might play for the first hour and if I have a big enough stack just go to bed and I will get in the top 20 or so by just getting blinded out and make $10 or so.
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| 75 | Species
Leader
ID: 7724916
Thu, Jul 22, 2004, 11:36
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Enjoyed my virgin experience at online poker for real money last night on PokerStars.
First, the enrollment with NETeller was fascinating! Armed with my address and some other fairly non-descript info (although they did have the last 4 digits of my SSN) NETeller was able to ascertain my residency history! As part of their security screening, somehow they tap into a portion of my credit report with that residency history. They even had an address I lived while in college 15 yrs. ago. Anyway, I just found it interesting.
I did 4 Sit-N-Go's last night. Started with just a $6 one (1 table) because it was nearly full and I wanted to get my feet wet. Busted out of there pretty fast. Did a $10 one (two tables) and lost on the final table.
The next $10 tourney (one table) was where dreams are made. From the very first hand I was getting powerhouse hands left and right. I swear in the first 20 hands I must have won 12 or 13 of them. After winning 4 or 5 I think people thought I was bullying/bluffing because I was getting calls and beating them all at the showdown. I checked my stats once and had won an incredible 9 out of 12 at the showdown.
The hand of that tournament was probably 15 hands in. I already had a COMMANDING lead - something like 4500 chips where the next guy has 2300 and most people have 1400 or less. I have JJ and raise pre-flop. Only 1 guy calls (these guys are sick of losing to me). Flop comes A A J. The other guy bets pretty big (400 or so) so I put him on an ace but figure no way in heck he has AJ. I raise HIM and he goes all in and turns over A 10 vs. my full house. Turn is nothing....he needs A or 10 to stay alive. BOOM! A 10 and he takes the chip lead.
It didn't matter. I had my money back within like 5 hands and re-took the chip lead. By the time we got to 3 players, I had 10000 in chips and they each had 1500. It was a blowout.
Lastly I did a $20 tourney. One gal goes all in on the 2nd hand and loses. Another busts out minutes later. Feeling the rush from the previous tourney I'm a little loosey-goosey and find myself with by far the shortest stack. I survive two all-ins, including a river beat to stay alive. With 4 players it seemed like the chip lead changes with every single hand - we're all pretty even. I make it to the final two and got beat.
All told, I'm up over $50.00 (including NETeller's charge of 9%!) playing these little tourneys - I wanted to get my feet wet for low dollars. Man they are addicting and it is just TOO EASY to get into a game!
THK - if you are around after 9:30-10:00 Pacific some nights, we could probably hook up.
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| 76 | Species
Leader
ID: 7724916
Thu, Jul 22, 2004, 11:44
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Oh.......forgot one other point about NETeller that was both freaky (in a big-brother kind of way) and impressive at the same time:
When you make your INITIAL deposit with NETeller, they explain on the website that someone from their security area will call to verify the deposit and some info.....or I can call 1-800-blahblah. Itching for some action, I start to call the number given 1 minute after I initiated my deposit. Before I could get TEN seconds into that call, the other line on my cell beeps and a NETeller security representative is armed and ready to take my information.
Like I noted above - I wasn't sure if I was more impressed with that response or more wigged out by it! lol
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| 77 | leggestand
Sustainer
ID: 451036518
Thu, Jul 22, 2004, 13:15
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I have been following these threads for a while, and since I went to Tampa on a business trip the past two days, I decided to stay at the new Hard Rock Hotel/Casino and try my luck at some hold 'em. The tables I played, and highest tables avaliable, were only $2-$2 limits, though, so, bluffing was uncommon because you were constantly seeing 6+ guys stay around to see the flop. I ended up down $30 total in my 3 sittings, which stunk because I was up $70 after my first two sittings. Some highlights from my hands:
In my first sitting, I am in the dealer with A-3 suited. Raise is to $4, and 5 of us stay in to see the flop. The flop comes out 2-K-2. First 4 guys check, so, I think I am sitting pretty with A high, and bet. Two guys drop out, leaving 3 in to play. I think that maybe one of them has a K, but I doubt it. Turn card is another 2. Two guys check and I bet thinking that no one has hit anything yet, so, I am thinking the only thing that might hurt me is matching someones A without a good kicker. River card is and A, so, I just got a full house, and worse case I split the pot. 1st guy bets, 2nd guy calls, I raise, and we continue to raise until we reach the limit. We flip over, and I tie a guy who also had an A, but, the other guy was sitting on the 4th 2. I couldn't believe it. He wouldn't bet the card so I thought he had nothing, and in the end he took a pretty nice pot.
My 2nd sitting was a little more eventful than the first. I was getting crushed and lost about 50% of my initial bank roll without even making it to a showdown. I'm in the big blind and get Q-3 diamonds. Pot is slightly raised, but I go in since I am the big blind. Q-Q-5 off the flop, so, I raise the first guys bet. Surprisingly a bunch of people stay in, so, I am hoping that I don't get caught. River card is a 3, and I have a boat. Once again 4 people stay in. Last card is irrelevant, I win the hand, and from being down $30, I am now up $10.
About 3 hands later I am looking at a Q-3 hearts. I figure Q-3 red suited is my lucky hand so I stay in. Q-5-3 off the flop, one heart. Some people stay in, and the river card is a 2 of hearts. Now I am worried about a possible straight vs my two pair, but I stay in hoping that no one stayed in with a 4 (even though I stayed in with a 3). River card K of hearts, so, I have my flush, and now hope someone just paired, or 3 of a kind K's. Someone paired K's and 5's, so, I take home about a $50 pot. It was a great feeling to win $90 in a matter of 5 hands. The lesson of that sitting was always play Q-3 red suited.
My last sitting was a disaster. I don't know if I was playing with people that couldn't care less about money or were drunk, but the hands these guys were playing were ridiculous. Three examples of my ruined sitting:
1. I have A-K of clubs. Almost everyone stays in. K-4-K flop (one heart), so, I have three of a kind, Ace kicker. I bet like I have three of a kind just hoping to take the decent size pot aready accumulated. Three of us stay in. River card is 8 (heart). No help to me, and unless someone is sitting on pocket 4's or 8's, I am fine. One guy stays in with me. He is obviously drunk, and bets no matter what. He has already commented that he will "always see a flop," so, I am thinking easy money. I think that a flush is possible, but with the amount of money he put in this pot he can't be just hoping for a card. Last card is a 9 (heart). He bets, I raise, he calls. My 3 of a kind loses out to a flush.
2. I am the big blind. Everyone calls me, and I check with a 3-5. Flop is A-2-4, so, I flop the straight with an awful hand. A bunch of people stay in, and I am hoping that poo poo cards come out on 4th street and river. Next card is a 4. Worries me a little bit, but in trying to get people to drop out, I bet and it's left to me and the guy I mentioned above. Last card is a 9. He bets, I raise, he raises, I call. He was holding onto a 4 and 9, so he makes a full boat to take down my straight.
3. I am down to $6 and am dealt J-7 hearts. I go all in because I am two deals from being the blinds and don't know if I will see anything better. 5 people call. J-5-7 flop. I got two pair. Three people stay in. 4 on the river. One guy bets, and the other drops out. 3 on the river. Without looking I knowing he has a 6. Sure enough he had 6-4 and knocks me out.
Overall, I don't like limit hold 'em with such low betting levels. Almost everyone stays in for the flop, and too many times the worst starting hand, which should of been folded right off the bat, wins. An intersting thing, though, was that a Hold 'em tourney was going on while I was playing, and I looked over and saw both Gramatica brothers playing. They were out pretty fast, though.
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| 78 | TaRhEElKiD
ID: 40612721
Thu, Jul 22, 2004, 15:38
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Species-
For future reference I would use NETeller but NOT the InstaCash feature. The normal route will take 4-5 business days to transfer into your account, but they won't charge an incredible processing fee. OR if you are out of cash and just have a itch to play...give them the 9%! ;-)
Nice work on your first night. Parents are getting divorced right now and $$$ is tight for my mom and me, but as soon as I can I will open my real $$$ account back up Species and we will play.
THK
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| 79 | TaRhEElKiD
ID: 40612721
Thu, Jul 22, 2004, 15:42
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leg-
I am not a fan of limit Hold 'Em either. People calling with 4-9 to beat you with a Full Boat...that is just awful playing...
THK
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| 80 | Species
Leader
ID: 7724916
Thu, Jul 22, 2004, 16:21
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THK - I hear you about limit hold 'em, but if you think more globally and can forget the rare bad beat, I love playing against those idiots who call with nothing -- in the long run you will get there money by trapping them with 4 good hands to their 1 lucky river beat.
It was so funny to sit there at the keyboard with a big bluff...waiting, praying for a fold from the person you're up against. "Fold....fold....fold.......YESSSSSSSS!" I can't tell you how many times I did that last night. LOL
Last point: Any pointers/thoughts on playing heads up or even when you're the last 3? Be it for real or online?
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| 81 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 48624198
Thu, Jul 22, 2004, 17:18
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leg-
"no foldem holdem" can be tough to play when everyone is chasing with everything...but at times can be very profitable if you are getting good cards and they miss their chases.
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| 82 | Species
Leader
ID: 7724916
Thu, Jul 22, 2004, 17:27
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Ohhhhhhhhh......I can't believe I forgot the other classic hand from last night. In the $10 tourney where I steamrolled everyone, one big hand in my comeback after that bad beat was a flush draw I had.
I have K 3 of hearts and called the big blind - no raises on the flop. There's a K on the flop as well as a heart. I stay in when the ace of hearts comes. I know I have the nuts if another heart comes and check at the turn. Two are still in, one guy bets big and I call. The river is my 3rd heart and I have the nuts. I check to the other guy who bets, I go all in immediately and he calls and loses.
In the chat area he says "Crap! I meant to fold!" - I say 'are you serious?' and we talk for a minute. I guess my all-in came so fast that he clicked over the call button by mistake. Oh well! Keep your hand off the mouse and pay attention.
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| 83 | beastiemiked
Sustainer
ID: 3531815
Thu, Jul 22, 2004, 17:29
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I've done that before. It can easily happen if you are playing multiple games at once.
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| 84 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 48624198
Thu, Jul 22, 2004, 17:40
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heads up...
To me it is an entirely different game than playing ten handed. More about bluffing - trapping - making the right reads. Obviously when you are heads up you need to start playing almost evey hand...can't sit back and wait for great cards. Need to get a read on your opponent and make the right calls...and at times make a big call of two with marginal hands...many times heads up if I am playing against someone who is playing aggressive and going all-in a lot or make huge bets trying to steal pots I will wait for a time I have at least an ok hand and then call those big bets...though optimally you still want a huge hand but many times you do not have the time to wait because the blinds are large and you are only going to see so many cards.
I am a totally different player heads-up I go from a tight-rock who may only see the flop 20% of the time to raising at almost every opportunity. I like to put the pressure on when headsup. But headsup play really depends on your opponent...if they are ultra-aggressive you may try to trap...if they are tight you may try to steal every hand.
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| 85 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 48624198
Thu, Jul 22, 2004, 17:48
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Definitely have to be careful with that online...the accidental call or raise.
Funny story...when I was just starting out I decided to play in a .50-1.00 NL game (probably too big of game for me at the time) and was just sitting there playing tight and I get dealt 3-5 of clubs...garbage hand...someone bets $5 I go to fold and hit raise instead...damn!...I figure there goes $10. He reraises back another $5...I say screw it I am already in for $10...might as well see the flop for $5 more...Flop A-2-4...giving me a straight on the flop...lol...the original raiser bets $10...I raise $20...he goes all-in...I quickly call...he flips AA for trip aces...I flip my crap cards for straight...the guy went crazy/pissed and could not believe I was raising with 3-5 before the flop...I won a $200+ pot. Guy was swearing for a good 10 minutes...I just said "hey they were suited I always raise when I get suited cards"...really I was embarrassed that I won the pot and quickly left the table...what a terrible play but it worked.
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| 86 | TaRhEElKiD
ID: 40612721
Thu, Jul 22, 2004, 18:07
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LOL. I would have quickly let as well TRS. That turned out well, haha.
THK
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| 87 | Eat Acid
ID: 56646190
Thu, Jul 22, 2004, 18:38
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Heads up--I'm all in with any ace or any pair before the flop. I'm only trying to trap with QQ-AA before the flop, I'd just call out of the small blind and make a tiny raise out of the BB. I call every hand out of the small blind, and if I get raised its contemplation time, will call a small wager with connectors. Aggressiveness is the key, I just try and win more pots then you, even if I get trapped, I can generally get off.
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| 88 | Species
Leader
ID: 7724916
Thu, Jul 22, 2004, 18:44
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TRS #85 - funny story. I would've bailed too. I think Norm Chad called that a "Hit and run" on the WSOP coverage.
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| 89 | TaRhEElKiD
ID: 40612721
Thu, Jul 22, 2004, 20:43
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Species that is how I play the $0.50/$1 tables at PokerStars. I take in $20 and when I get to $40 I leave. VERY profitable.
THK
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| 90 | TaRhEElKiD
ID: 40612721
Thu, Jul 22, 2004, 21:58
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Entered a Sat (500 FPP entry) at Pokerstars. Just 100 in so far and top 4 gain entry into a tournament with 300k guarunteed.
THK
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| 91 | TaRhEElKiD
ID: 40612721
Thu, Jul 22, 2004, 22:01
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121 end up in the tournament...I'll let you know how it goes.
THK
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| 92 | wazaaap_guy
ID: 3959822
Thu, Jul 22, 2004, 22:52
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whats FPP?
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| 93 | rockafellerskank
Dude
ID: 27652109
Thu, Jul 22, 2004, 22:57
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How do you know that 2,3,4 people at an online table don't know each otehr and are talking (cheating) via AIM or messenger as cards are dealt?
[potential] Cheating is what keeps me from participating online.
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| 94 | TaRhEElKiD
ID: 40612721
Thu, Jul 22, 2004, 23:34
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Frequent Player Points..
Still in if anybody wants to watch...
Recap later...
THK
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| 95 | TaRhEElKiD
ID: 40612721
Fri, Jul 23, 2004, 00:09
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20 left, had a bad run...
Recap later...
THK
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| 96 | TaRhEElKiD
ID: 40612721
Fri, Jul 23, 2004, 00:35
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Ok...finished 19th of 121. Not great huh...cost 500 Frequent Player Points to enter...
In the beginning I wasn't getting anything and doing absolutely awful.
-QQ ...120 bet and 3 callers. Flop comes 23K somebody bets 200 I lay it down because I was currently ranked 87 of 93.
-AA ...160 bet and 2 other callers. Flop comes Q67, somebody bets 120 and I raise to 440 and take down the pot. Now ranked 64 of 87
-J8s in the BB. Flop comes 86J all suited...I bet 200 to drive out the draws and it works.
-QJos limp in. KJT...150 bet and I call. 2 then just 50 is bet so I don't think he has much. Q comes on the river giving me 2 pair and I bet 250 and take the pot down. 48 of 77
First Break: I have 1,800 in chips ranked 40 of 57 and the average is 3,187. So I am not doing well...
-A5s in SB and limp in. 69A flops and 450 is bet. I call with the intention to raise on the turn to fake a top kicker. 9 on the turn and somebody bets 200 and I raise to 500 and he quickly folds. 28 of 56
-Lose a few times with nice starting hands and nothing flopped. 2,450 in chips ranked 32 of 43.
-KQs raise 200. 79Q flops and I raise 300 with a caller. T comes on the turn and I am thinking he has a straight becuase he raises my 500 bet to 1,000. J comes on the river and I am ALL IN with the high straight. He flips his low straight and I vault to 4 of 43.
-A9s. 692 flops. I bet 200 with top pair in early pos and raised to 600. I call because he didn't raise pre flop so he could be slowing playing a pair but I stick with him bc this guy was a loose player. 9 on the turn is my $$$ card. He bets 400 and I raise to 1400 and he folds. 6 of 39
-AQos raised double the BB. JK2 flops and he bets 400. I call a short stack. T is the money card on the turn and he bets 200 and then I raise him all in and he folds. 5 of 38
-KQs I called 400 from the chip leader. 478 flops and he bets 200 and I raise to 600 on nothing. 9 comes on the turn and I am still holding nothing...he bets 200 again and I raise to 800 this time and calls to my dismay. 7 on the river and I made up my mind to earn this pot. Chip leader checks and I bet 1k. He lays it down and says he has TT and asks what I had. I said "You wanted to see you should have paid". ;-) 3 of 33
-QQ vs AK and a guy goes all in for cheap and I call and it holds up. Still 3rd
-AKs. JJK and I bet big. He calls and I am worried. X comes on the turn and I bet again he calls. I am really concerned but I am committed. He goes all in for 1k on the river and flips AA over. I couldn't believe all he has bet without that J, not could I believe I called. 7th of 25
-Later lost with an A-Q high flush to an A-K high flush and knocked me to 14th...how quickly it goes.
-88 and I am dwindling so I bet 1k and raised to 2,000 and I call with just 928 left. Ax8 comes on the flop he bets me ALL IN and I call. He had only KK and another A comes on the turn to give me a boat with no K on the river. Back to 12th
-Picked a bad time to bluff late with 75s in the BB and bet after the flop and was called. He bet then I raised...called. Then he bet and I folded...dropped straight to 19th of 20 and I am in dire straights with only about 4k left.
-pick up AK os and I go ALL IN. Called with KQs. Flop comes 9JJ and gives him a few extra outs, but it doesn't matter with the Q comes on the turn and no help for me on the river.
500 FPP lost...19th or 121 against guys that actually play for cash on PokerStars. Didn't get anything early and made a few mistakes late but other than that I thought I played well and the correct hands...
THK
P.S.-The second break was in there somewhere, lol. Thanks to Chuck for stopping by to check it out.
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| 97 | TaRhEElKiD
ID: 40612721
Fri, Jul 23, 2004, 00:35
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Sorry for the length of that post.
THK
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| 98 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 36881
Fri, Jul 23, 2004, 00:44
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#93 rfs...cheating is a concern but then again if you are sitting in a casino how do you know people are not signaling each other?
In the low limits online I really don't think you have to worry about it much...the players are not that good and there is not enough profit for it to make much difference. In the high limits online it can happen. If you do notice some unusual bets or folds you can email support and they will investigate...if the players play together all of the time or they will look at the hand histories and see if they were unusual betting patterns. The nice thing about online is all of the cards are saved and they can truly investigate.
If there is cheating I guess I don't care because I am consistently making good money.
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| 99 | Species
ID: 26471422
Fri, Jul 23, 2004, 00:46
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Down to 5 in a $20 tourney. Guy puts me all in with a 10-4 (flop had a 4) and I have pocket Aces. Gets a BLEEEEEEEEEEEEPING 10 on the river for 2 pair to knock me out! GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
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| 100 | kev
ID: 3155515
Fri, Jul 23, 2004, 01:05
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Well, I am entered into the tourney I mentioned above for Saturday evening. I asked about the rebuys, and there is a limit of one, which is nice for me, as I can plan accordingly.
There is a set time limit to the buy in as well, and I was told there were warnings to when the buy in will occur.
Do you guys find that when it is announced that there is, lets say, 5 minutes to buy in, a lot of people go all in on junk? I am just curious as to what people do in a rebuy?
I am committed to use the rebuy if I need it. If near the time limit, I am limping a bit, I will go all in on good cards and see what I can do. If I am successful when the time limit comes up, I will just continue on and see what I can do. I don't really have any thoughts of winning the tourney, I just want to get myself acquainted with playing in a tourney.
Thanks to THK, TRS, Species et all for all the great advice.
We should see if Guru wants to open a Poker message area- I don't see these threads disappearing anytime soon.
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| 101 | Farn
Sustainer
ID: 451044109
Fri, Jul 23, 2004, 01:15
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Guru needs to develop some poker software. He can take a 3% rake for donations. :)
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| 102 | TaRhEElKiD
ID: 40612721
Fri, Jul 23, 2004, 02:05
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Haha Farn. Species, are you thinking about ever playing in the low limit large tournaments at PS?
THK
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| 103 | Species
ID: 26471422
Fri, Jul 23, 2004, 04:31
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I think every night I'm going to continue to play tourneys until I win.
Lost 3 times and entered one last $10, 2-table tourney. Some highlights:
J9s Flop Q 8 10 so I flop a straight. This is relatively early and I slow play it until the turn, pulling in a nice 2230 pot.
A 10s Flop is 5 7 3 with 2 of my hearts. Some decent betting, and some guy goes all in for 1200. I'm the chip leader so I'll give my flush a try. He flips over pocket Queens. Turn comes with my heart and he's knocked out.
The hand of the night was me vs. the chip leader at the final table. This is early in the final table so there are still 8 playing. I have KK and the flop comes A K 6. I'm on the button so the chip leader comes out firing pretty big. I call. Turn is a 6. He bets and I go all in. He calls. Turns over Ax. River is a 7 and my boat takes it.
Won $72.00 on that tourney, but had spent that much before! So I'm still $50.00 up. lol....you've got to love poker.
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| 104 | Species
ID: 26471422
Fri, Jul 23, 2004, 15:09
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lmao.....started a $20 tourney. THIRD hand I have Q 7 suited. Preflop raise by someone, 3 of us call. Flop comes Q 8 8 - we all check to the raiser, who bets. One folds, 3 of us in. Turn comes 8 - so I have 8's over Q's. We check to the raiser, who bets pretty big. I go all in, figuring at worst I chop. He calls.......whoooooooooops. Pocket Aces!
Easy come easy go. Out after 3 hands.....lmao.
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| 105 | beastiemiked
Sustainer
ID: 3531815
Fri, Jul 23, 2004, 15:29
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Ewww, don't be calling preflop raises with Q7 suited. You know better than that.
Pokertips
This is a great site I came across awhile back that offers a ton of strategy. They also have a message board with the homeliness feel of Rotoguru. I used to post a lot on their message board but after Party poker screwed me in a multi table tourney I stopped playing poker online and thus stopped posting.
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| 106 | Species
ID: 26471422
Fri, Jul 23, 2004, 15:41
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lol......I hear you BMD......but we're talking 3rd hand of the game and $20.00 in chips out of 1500. Yes the preflop raise is strength, but especially early on in these PokerStars tourneys it seemed like people are really loose.
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| 107 | Farn
Sustainer
ID: 451044109
Fri, Jul 23, 2004, 15:46
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bmd, how did they screw you? some form of collusion?
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| 108 | TaRhEElKiD
ID: 40612721
Fri, Jul 23, 2004, 17:56
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Entering a Limit Stud Free Roll at PokerStars. Let's see how it goes...about 4,000 signed up. Won't give a recap since this isn't my game at all...never even played online, just live, but I will tell you how I finish.
THK
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| 109 | TaRhEElKiD
ID: 40612721
Fri, Jul 23, 2004, 19:02
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4210 signed up. Was up to 91st at one point. First break I am 923 of 2,200 right around average.
THK
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| 110 | TaRhEElKiD
ID: 40612721
Fri, Jul 23, 2004, 19:38
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1309 of 4210...pretty good since I had never played limit stud in my life. Had As and Qs on the last hand...lost to 3 2's.
THK
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| 111 | TaRhEElKiD
ID: 40612721
Fri, Jul 23, 2004, 23:21
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Species-
If you are online....I am invited you to the $3 tournament at PokerStars! ;-) Starts in 10 minutes, sorry for the late notice but I just opened my account. If not, we will hook up in a sit-n-go whenever possible.
What is your handle and I can search for you (mine is the same).
THK
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| 112 | Chuck
Sustainer
ID: 169212110
Sat, Jul 24, 2004, 00:06
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Could someone explain how the "Lo" tiebreaker works? If it's the same, it splits, but I figured lowest card would always win. But, consider this:
Dealer: Game #564629582: Chuck42181 wins Hi side pot ($0.76) with two pair, Aces and Eights
Dealer: Game #564629582: Chuck42181 wins Lo side pot ($0.75) with 8,7,4,3,A
Dealer: BROOKLYN23 has a straight, Four to Eight
Dealer: BROOKLYN23 has 7,6,5,4,A for Lo
Dealer: Game #564629582: BROOKLYN23 wins Hi main pot ($2.93) with a straight, Four to Eight
Dealer: Game #564629582: BROOKLYN23 wins Lo main pot ($2.93) with 7,6,5,4,A
Why does his low beat mine? Is it b/c his 7 is lower than my 8? I would think my 3 below his 4 would win, but it didn't.
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| 113 | Chuck
Sustainer
ID: 169212110
Sat, Jul 24, 2004, 00:08
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To clarify, which "Lo" would win:
A, 2, 4, 5, 8
A, 4, 5, 6, 7
According to above, I would assume #2?
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| 114 | wazaaap_guy
ID: 3959822
Sat, Jul 24, 2004, 00:15
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Starts from the highest low card and works down. So A,4,5,6,7 beats an A,2,3,4,8, and A,4,5,6,8 beats an A,2,3,7,8.
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| 115 | R9
Leader
ID: 2624472
Sat, Jul 24, 2004, 00:18
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I see alot of people in Ohmaha Hi/Low bet big with Ace/Two, once they see they've got the other 3 low cards in the flop they need... Only to have an ace or a two flop on the turn or river, and end up giving the low hand to whoever has Ace/Three (if its a 2 that flopped) or Two/Three (if its an Ace that flopped). A/2 is definitely enough to keep me in the pot, but I won't bet it big unless I also have a 3. (Getting dealt Ace/two/three/four is a dream, so long as you get a favorable flop...)
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| 116 | TaRhEElKiD
ID: 40612721
Sat, Jul 24, 2004, 00:49
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Long story short about the $3 tourney on PokerStars. I go all in with AK (secound straight time I had it) when JAA was showing on the flop. Guy calls with A8 and an 8 comes on the turn with no K or J on the river.
THK
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| 117 | Species
ID: 26471422
Sat, Jul 24, 2004, 00:56
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That beat SUCKED THK. Brutal.
I'm popping into a Sit-n-go now.
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| 118 | Chuck
Sustainer
ID: 169212110
Sat, Jul 24, 2004, 01:47
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I think I am liking the low cost Omaha Hi/Lo tables.
I did suffer a few bad beats, but I've been doing fairly well there this evening. The Hold'em tables just killed me. I only played the big hands and lost about 90% of pots I entered. I held ground in the limit and busted out in the no limits.
It took a while, but I recovered all the $$ on the Omaha table tonight.
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| 119 | KnicksFan
Donor
ID: 30815418
Sat, Jul 24, 2004, 03:22
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I got into a NL texas hold em tourney at a friend of a friend's house, $40 buy-in, 13 people. Most of them were relatively new to the game so I felt confident I'd at least end up in the money. Instead, I ended up being the first one out.
The guy to the right of me was the early chip leader at my table, and was playing really loose. I am the big blind and I get dealt an AQ os. I make a small raise, and it's called by the guy on my right and one other player. The flop comes KJ10 os, so I flop the high straight, and there's no apparent flush draws, so I feel pretty confident I've got this hand in the bag. I decide to slow play it to squeeze as much money as I can out of these guys. I bet an average amount, and it's called by both guys. The turn is a 9...I bet a little more than last time, one guy folds, the guy on my right stays in. The river is J, I check, the guy bets pretty high, and I go all-in. I figure he either has a king high straight or three jacks. He calls the all-in. I flip my straight, which I'm proud of...until he shows his pocket J10 and full house.
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| 120 | TaRhEElKiD
ID: 40612721
Sat, Jul 24, 2004, 03:38
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In another 50 FPP tournament. 24 left...at 2nd break.
THK
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| 121 | TaRhEElKiD
ID: 40612721
Sat, Jul 24, 2004, 04:09
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ALL IN with QQ. Of course A3os called me (9k bet). Guess what card comes on the river...
A
What else huh?
Another inferior hand beating me on the river...I hate when I make the right play and still get screwed.
THK
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| 122 | Eat Acid
ID: 56646190
Sat, Jul 24, 2004, 08:53
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RE:Cheating--They still have to beat my hand. Just another reason why I prefer the nut players game, omaha. I'm going to blather inbetween hands about my pot limit strategy.
First off, its 100 $ buy in max, you can start with less but thats dumb. Always have as many chips as you can on a pot limit or no limit table, so as to get value for your hand. After all, you do have confidence that its the best hand, right? Buying in for less is simply predicting failure. It also will hamstring your creativity, which I will attempt to illustrate later.
Starting hands for PL Hi-lo----These are going to be inordinately different than than a limit list, partially because of my nature but mostly because of the nature of the game itself. If you are going to play limit read beastie's site, its solid. Here's what I look for, in order of preference:
AA double onsuit, A2 suited, A-x onsuit with a wheel card or 2, (3,4,5), A-x onsuit with 2 face cards (10-K), 4 cards in a row or with one gap above a 9, regardless of suit, ie (9-10-J-Q), (9-J-Q-K).
These are the hands that I will play in any position, for any preflop raise. If its raised and re-raised in front of me by 2 players I respect, I may lay down a hand like (A-4-5-Q on), simply because I feel that there probably aren't too many 2's and 3's out there, and therefore I'm probably drawing at half the pot. Huge thematic point---never draw to half the pot in pot limit omaha hi lo, especially heads up. Mathematically it can be proven that winning the whole pot once is better than splitting it twice, I'm more of a poker guy than a math guy, but the illustration is on cardplayer and maybe beastie's site if you don't want to take my word for it. Then there is also the simple fact that if you are drawing to both the high and low sides of a pot you have more outs to not walk away empty handed. A-A double on gives you top pair and 2 nut flush draws. Your other 2 cards affect this holdings strength enormously, ie 2-3 or K-Q is much better than 6-9. I would raise preflop with any of them however, because A-A plays much better against a limited field. In a game full of monkeys however, where 5 people see the flop no matter how much loot it is to them, I'd probably just call from early position, and either see a flop or make a huge reraise on the backside to clear the field. A-2 suited is the opposite. This hand you want as many customers as possible, and the ability to get off when the flop comes 10-10-9 no flush draw. Simply call. Even when the flop comes Q-8-4 no flush draw, you'd rather have less money in the pot. Why? Because someone has at least top 2 pair, or a set, or even a monkey slamming it with the 7-6-5 wrap. If that person bets the pot, you hope its a small one because (A) more people will call chasing garbage, and (B) you are drawing at half the pot. If that bet clears the field then you have lost your overlay and are violating the huge thematic point. A recipe for bankroll decimation. The reason why the other hands are playable should be obvious by now, they draw at the entire pot, with a chance to make the best hand. The high only hands you have to hit hard, top 2 pair minimum, and you'd really rather make the straight. Still, top 2 on a unsuited board with only 1 card to a low is a legitimate holding worth a pot sized bet.
Creativity is all about position and player anaylsis in PL. I call 95% of my button hands. 95%!!! How loose is that? Basically any hand that doesn't have trips in it. Why? Because being last to act in a PL game that is being played in a straightforward manner, ie there aren't any studs or 5 monkeys at the table, is a huge advantage. I'll pick up 3 pots an hour, to pay for my blinds, simply by firing out the size of the pot after its checked to me. I'll pick up at least one more by waiting for a solid player to make that play and then reraising him the size of the pot on the backside because he is just betting the button. Watch for timing tells on this, a player that pre-checks the bet pot box generally has a hand, except on the button.
Another creative play I love is calling a huge pre-flop raise from a rock solid player with a very marginal holding, something like any 2 pair or any 4 in a row or a one gapper. Why? Because when a rock bets the pot before the flop he has A-A. When I know 2 of your cards, I am alot better at knowing whether or not I'm winning. If I flop any 2 pair, or any wrap draw, I'm going to either raise all in after you bet out with your aces, or check raise the minimum if my holding is extremely strong comparitively, ie (10-9-7-6) vs (A-A-?-?), flop of J-9-8. Its a total wrap on the idiot end of the straight, but its a monster here. Why? Because he only has 2 other cards, and the chance that they are ones that hurt you, ie k-q or q-10 is marginal. Its dangerous to talk in absolutes on this one, you learn by feel, but trapping good players with A-A is extremely profitable and a good tool in the arsenal.
Well, I've blathered enough, hopefully its enough of a taste to get you guys interested in the game, but if you like money more than just playing you'll give it a whirl. I only play NL tourneys now, and mainly only to blow off steam.
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