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Subject: New Trade Deadline Proposal
Posted by: Mattinglyinthehall
- [2824911] Wed, Jan 12, 2005, 12:11
The last trade deadline proposal was kind of shot down and that thread is now too cluttered for a prop so I'll just introduce a new one here. That one can still serve as a discussion thread if necessary.
Prop 1:
Trade deadline will coincide with the roster freeze 4 weeks prior to the final week of the season, be it a season that ends in Summerslam or Wrestlemania.
Prop 2:
Trade deadline will not include trades that are exclusively for waiver picks. This is introduced as a seperate prop rather than a condition of the first because I feel the first prop is too important to risk failure because people don't agree with this lesser issue. |
| 1 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 2824911
Wed, Jan 12, 2005, 12:12
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1. Yea
2. Yea
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| 2 | Farn
Sustainer
ID: 451044109
Wed, Jan 12, 2005, 12:17
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I think you mean "draft picks" in prop 2. I doubt anybody is trading waiver priority. :)
If that's the case then...
1. Yay
2. Yay
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| 3 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 2824911
Wed, Jan 12, 2005, 12:17
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oops, yes.
:)
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| 4 | Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Wed, Jan 12, 2005, 12:42
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1. Yes
2. Yes
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| 5 | Tree
ID: 76471215
Wed, Jan 12, 2005, 13:33
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double ayes here...
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| 6 | GoatLocker
Sustainer
ID: 060151121
Wed, Jan 12, 2005, 16:48
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Yes
Yes
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| 7 | Bond, James Bond
ID: 161159316
Wed, Jan 12, 2005, 20:15
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1. Yes
2. Yes
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| 8 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 2824911
Thu, Jan 13, 2005, 10:51
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That's 6. One more makes it the law.
Still haven't heard from Kev, Wiggs, Great One or Mike D.
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| 9 | Mike D
Sustainer
ID: 41831612
Thu, Jan 13, 2005, 11:15
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I'm a YES on #2. I'm just not sure when the right time for the deadline is. I guess no one really is sure either and something had to be proposed. We can certainly adjust it later if necessary (as in the following year). With this many YES votes for #1, I'm sure someone else that is left will also vote yes. The more I think about it, 4 weeks is a decent choice to use. So.......I'll also vote YES to #1.
Sorry for the ramble......way behind on my WWE thoughts and facts.
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| 10 | wiggs
Donor
ID: 04991311
Thu, Jan 13, 2005, 14:41
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obviously this rule was implemented against me and therefore I vote no to both, not that it matters since everyone else voted yes.
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| 11 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 2824911
Thu, Jan 13, 2005, 15:02
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obviously this rule was implemented against me
By that I hope you don't mean that this was proposed, voted and implimented specifically for the purpose of keeping your team in check.
Its true that it was done in the interest of parity and that it was also a reaction to your final week trade from last season which brought the importance of the issue to everyone's attention. But it wasn't done to keep you down and I would never support a measure with that sole purpose at its base.
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| 12 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 2824911
Thu, Jan 13, 2005, 15:05
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Received an email from Great One asking me to post his vote. Its irrelevant now, but since he made a point to send it:Great One's Trade Deadline Vote
1. Yes
2. Yes
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| 13 | wiggs
Donor
ID: 04991311
Thu, Jan 13, 2005, 15:11
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I do believe that this rule was implemented to keep me from winning the league again. If I am wrong then I am wrong, but it seems weird that I Was the only one to make a last week trade, which I have read numerous posts and emails from people saying that they will not trade with me anymore because they are sick of me winning.
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| 14 | Farn
Sustainer
ID: 451044109
Thu, Jan 13, 2005, 15:24
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1. I am sick of you winning. I won't lie. I want to win. So to that end I am sick of you winning.
2. I would never vote for a rule just to screw you. Not only would that be wrong as a fellow player but also as a friend.
3. As MITH said, it became clear we needed a trading deadline when you made your trade last season. Its not that we want to screw you. It just made it clear we needed one when we had never thought of it before.
If you think this rule is solely to screw you then you are wrong. Very wrong. Its in the best interest of creating parity. No sport in the world could exist without parity. If you are against every team being good then that's where we disagree. I'm not out to screw you. I'm out to make every team better.
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| 15 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 2824911
Thu, Jan 13, 2005, 15:25
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Wow. I'm not sure that I have read anyone say that they won't trade with you. And considering the whopper blockbuster you just pulled off it doesn't seem to me like you're having more trouble than me making deals. About half the league will attest to my pestering of them.
In any case, I think it should be clear to most of the league that there are several of us - including myself - who would significantly benefit from being able to make keeper-bolstering trades at the very end of the season. Wiggs, you are not the only one affected by this.
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| 16 | Mike D
Sustainer
ID: 41831612
Thu, Jan 13, 2005, 15:25
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Anyone could have made that trade wiggs. It is coincidence, to some extent, that the person who did it------you-----has won the league. What about your trading partner, whoever it was? I think most if not all of the GMs here are seasoned enough to step back from the facts that you speak of when making a decision about a trading deadline.
I could care less who made last year's deadline deal. I also could care less if the same person wins the league every year or it changes every year. I can see from your perspective why things sometimes appear to be "against you." Give some of the GMs credit for being objective though bro.
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| 17 | wiggs
Donor
ID: 04991311
Thu, Jan 13, 2005, 15:39
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MITH, KEv sent me that offer and it was done before we know about the RVD injury.
I dont think you can talk about whoppers taking UT for virtually nothing.
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| 18 | wiggs
Donor
ID: 04991311
Thu, Jan 13, 2005, 15:56
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Mike D, the trading partner was Kev, and he took Rey for nothing who is now ranked #2 in the league. The trade was good for both of us.
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| 19 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 2824911
Thu, Jan 13, 2005, 16:00
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Wiggs, I can totally understand your being pissed for feeling that this vote didn't go your way. I'm quite sure that the vote didn't go down the way it did to stop you from winning. In fact I'm certain of it. This league is better than that. You're entitled to your opinion but I have to say it is insulting to all of us for you to come out and say that this is what you think of your leaguemates. Hopefully after you've cooled down and thought about it some more you'll realize that.
As to that other stuff, I didn't bring up the Y2J trade to criticize you. Please stop being so defensive. I brought it up to point out that - exactly like I said - you don't seem to have trouble pulling off a big deal that helps you. As you said yourself that you didn't even have to contact Kev to pull that one off, that he initiated the talks.
As for Undertaker, I traded my 1st round pick for him. Do the math yourself. The #9 pick will most likely land someone better than Undertaker. So unless I am able to make further moves to change things up some more (which I have been unable to do to this point - and believe me, its not for lack of trying), I likely hurt my long term outlook in the very futile interest of trying to compete with you now in this season. That was a very fair and creative trade that I'm actually quite proud of Great One for thinking up.
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| 20 | Mike D
Sustainer
ID: 41831612
Thu, Jan 13, 2005, 16:01
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Right, but I couldn't even remember who it was because it doesn't matter to me. Plus, kev is # 5 in the league if I just checked the right thread. It isn't the specifics of your deal that matter---it is the potential for deals of that type or similar type and is the foundation for trading deadlines across the fantasy sports world. This league didn't consider a deadline initially that I can recall. If it had been discussed, it probably would have been implemented seasons ago.
In philosophy there is a theory called the "egocentric predicament." It deals with someone thinking the world revolves around them, as opposed to them---and everyone else---being part of the big world. This trade deadline does not solely revolve around you, or kev, or Great One, or MITH, etc.. It revolves around us all.
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| 21 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 2824911
Thu, Jan 13, 2005, 16:02
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Great One emailed me and asked me to add thisI don't think it has anything to do with you in particular wiggs... we
just don't feel that kind of last second reshuffling is good for the
league altogether. You are still gonna be able to do it - just before
the 4 week roster freeze. Hell I think MITH is gonna be hurt more than
you are cause he surely has the deepest team right now - took the risk
on of acquiring more talent for the stretch run and if he can't get
something together and organized to condense his current roster by the
deadline he is gonna lose several solid scorers, but he seems to be in
favor of it cause its for the good of the league despite the fact it may
come back and bite him.
And I don't think you won't win next season because of this deadline, I
don't think you will next season cause your squad is showing chinks in
the armor with guys disappearing like Sylvan and Maven's horrible recent
performances and RVD may = Y2J but you lost Kenzo to do it... and
Angle's health is always a question mark... looking things over I'd say
Mike D and MITH - along with you - are all equal favorites for next
season regardless of last minute reorg's. The trade deadline is
irrelevant.
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| 22 | Bond, James Bond
ID: 51011314
Thu, Jan 13, 2005, 16:02
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Ahhhhhh, the smell of unity!!!! LOL
Seriously, just to appease those that may think otherwise, my purpose for changing my previous reluctance to a trading deadline into a positive affirmation of such is strictly to keep a league championship from being garnered unethically.
Personally, if Wiggs would prefer to see everybody trade their studs to, say, MITH, for the final few weeks, then perhaps we should reconsider this proposal. ;) However we all know how unscrupulous and scandalous that would be and I don't think anybody in this league would intentionally go out of their way to create such havoc. I could be wrong though. ;)
Maybe there are people that have agreed to this proposal strictly on an anti-Wiggs crusade. Maybe he's right; maybe there are those that are sick of him winning. Wonder what those odds are? ;)
Nevertheless, let it be known that as much as I am a proponent of trading (and lots of it), it is clear that a trading deadline will do much more good for our league than bad. That, my dear friends, is the bottom line because Sto.....er, because it's true, it's....er, because, well just because it is!
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| 23 | wiggs
Donor
ID: 04991311
Thu, Jan 13, 2005, 16:13
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MITH, I dont have hard feelings towards anyone what so ever.
As far as trades, look who my trades have been with, Kev. No one else. I got 1 email from species, but that was along time ago and I have heard nothing back. I made an offer to a manager, who will remain nameless, and his response was "good offer, but I think the rest of the league will kill me if I trade with you" another email I got said "no one is every going to trade with again, you get the better of every deal."
Please tell me how the trade last season hurt the league. It took a terrible team like Kevs and gave him a top scorer in Rey.
Mith, What is the best GO will get with your 9 or 10 pick depending if you finish 1 or 2?
Top scorers include
injured eugene
Trish
Victoria
Dupree
I just dont see how that pick is really going to help anyone.
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| 24 | wiggs
Donor
ID: 04991311
Thu, Jan 13, 2005, 16:16
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Mike D, I am shocked that you would post that you think that I think the world revolves around me. I am just saying that alot of the posts say things like we need to do this to stop wiggs from making a last week trade.
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| 25 | Mike D
Sustainer
ID: 41831612
Thu, Jan 13, 2005, 16:33
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Dude, I was feelin' philosophic. I meant it in the most positive of lights. And I used it as an example of you feeling this deadline was directed at you, when I disagree with that from my end.
FWIW, any league where you are in first place hurts your trading opportunities for a multitude of reasons.
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| 26 | wiggs
Donor
ID: 04991311
Thu, Jan 13, 2005, 16:34
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I just look at every other keeper league I have ever played for other sports and you can trade players right up til the draft.
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| 27 | Mike D
Sustainer
ID: 41831612
Thu, Jan 13, 2005, 16:37
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See, and that's where I lag behind. I don't play keeper leagues. This is the only one. I am not a big fan of them, obviously, and I love redrafting. I'll admit I'm therefore not too familiar with keeper leagues and will defer to you and others.
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| 28 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 2824911
Thu, Jan 13, 2005, 16:44
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Mike D
This league didn't consider a deadline initially that I can recall.
This is not true. The idea of a trade deadline came up several times before Wiggs and Kev's trade at the end of Season III.
As far as I know, I was the first to bring it up toward the end of Season II.
From that thread;
Post 0, MITH:
Also, if we haven't established one already, I'd like to suggest we make a trade deadline. I think 5 weeks before the season ends sounds about right, which would be July 20.
Post 1, Farn:
Agreed on the trade deadline.
Post 9, Blue Hen:
And I'd go a little later with the trade deadline. No need to cut it off that early.
Post 85 (a few weeks later), Tree:
2. errr...Trade Deadline? seems to me it oughta be NOW, and then we'll set a time for following seasons.
Post 87, Tree:
2. Now, and perhaps the trade deadline should be the PPV before Wrestlemania, and Summerslam, respectively.
Then there was this thread from Week 16 of Season III, some 5 weeks or so before the Kev/Wiggs trade:
From that thread:
Post 2, MITH:
I'll have to double check but I'm pretty sure Week 21 will be our final week. Does anyone else think we should have a trade deadline soon? This came up late last season and I we never addressed it again. I'd say the start of week 18 at the latest.
So as you can see, the idea was breached several times and, like many things that we procrastinate or realize the importance of too late in this league, we just never got around to it. I'll note here that above is every reference to a trade deadline that I could find prior to the Wiggs/Kev trade, and each of those references were in favor of the idea.
Wiggs
Its not a matter of hard feelings, its a matter of lack of respect in saying that this vote was done to hold you back. I'm especially having trouble with this because (and maybe its just me and I am actually way off but) it seems to me that every step of the way everyone has offered nothing but praise for you. Look, we've rehashed the reasons for why we need a deadline over and over. If you've been listening, the reasons should be abundantly clear. Its a shame that one person told you that they are afraid to deal with you for fear that the league will come down on them. That is disappointing.
Something for you to realize however is that the goal of each person here is to try to win this thing. I think each of us realizes that a fair deal will benefit both teams, and I think most of us are good enough to try to work out mutually beneficial deals. That said, it is hard to make a deal with the someone who leads by such a wide margin, knowing you'll be helping him even more and also try to finish ahead of that person. We all have to weigh that and I'm sure that a team like Mike D that is not far off from mine at all will be just as reluctant to deal with me for that specific reason.
Regarding your stuff about my Undertaker trade, like I said, I didn't bring up the Y2J trade to criticize you. If you think I made out unfairly on that so be it, I'm a little pissed and I don't feel the need to have to justify what I think was a very creative and fair deal.
If for some reason you absolutely need to discuss that with me then send me an email.
One last thing:
I just look at every other keeper league I have ever played for other sports and you can trade players right up til the draft.
What in the world are you talking about? You and I, are in a Yahoo baseball keeper league together. Yahoo has a mandatory deadline no later than 2/3 through the season. Frankly, I've never been in a roto style fantasy league, keeper or not, that didn't have a trade deadline.
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| 29 | wiggs
Donor
ID: 04991311
Thu, Jan 13, 2005, 16:52
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Mith your right, there is a trade deadline during the season, but immediately after the season you can then trade players.
I didnt mention the UT trade until you mentioned the Y2J one.
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| 30 | wiggs
Donor
ID: 04991311
Thu, Jan 13, 2005, 17:01
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this thread has numerous posts about creating a trade deadline because of a trade I made locked up my chances to win the next season
To me that makes me think that the deadline is in place to stop me from winning next season. If I am wrong I apologize and MITH I have nothing but respect for each and every manager that plays in this league.
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| 31 | kev
ID: 3155515
Thu, Jan 13, 2005, 19:46
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Im with Wiggs on a couple points.
I think in order to move your choices of keepers around, there should be a time after the deadline, which I agree with, and before keepers are declared where you can make moves to change your keepers.
For teams with more than 4 good keepers, it will allow them to move picks/players.
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| 32 | GoatLocker
Sustainer
ID: 060151121
Thu, Jan 13, 2005, 19:57
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Guys,
I think we should close out this thread and go forward from where we are now.
I thought you and I made a trade Wiggs. Probably last season.
Can't trade if you ain't got nuttin...:)
Cliff
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| 33 | Bond, James Bond
ID: 390471411
Fri, Jan 14, 2005, 13:04
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Since we have the necessary votes to enact the trading deadline proposal, what exactly are the deadline dates this year?
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