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Subject: ECW Scoring Discussion
Posted by: Great One
- [11139517] Sat, Jun 10, 2006, 11:58
Figured we should start a seperate thread from the "Emergency Vote" thread to work with all summer long on how to deal with ECW and the proposed expansion. |
| 1 | Bond, James Bond
Donor
ID: 4352469
Sat, Jun 10, 2006, 12:20
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Good idea Great One! I reckon I'll throw in a few thoughts here.
First off, I think everybody is in agreement that we need to incorporate, in whatsoever fashion, the ECW superstars in our scoring. I would be in favor of raising our roster limits up to 10 from the current 8 and then using either 7 or 8 starters per week.
I realize, however, that this may cause a hardship on those that do the scoring and whatnot and I definitely believe that their opinions should be taken into consideration with greater weight than mine.
Furthermore, I think that with Angle, RVD and now Big Show already aligned into ECW, there is no doubt that others will follow. I would like to believe that ECW will now be around for quite a few years but with VKM holding all the cards, it's obvious that anything can and probably will happen.
Where will ECW stand six months, one year or two years from now? Nobody knows. In the meantime, however, I think we have to do whatever is necessary in the best interests of our league. That for now is to include ECW superstars in our scoring.....but not until our current season ends.
Just my two cents...
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| 2 | Great One
ID: 11139517
Sat, Jun 10, 2006, 12:36
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I have a gut feeling Rey is gonna take that Smackdown belt into ECW, further decimating Smackdown.
I wonder if they aren't heading towards putting SD/RAW back together...
I think expansion to a roster of 10 and a starting lineup of 8 seems reasonable. Still keeping only 4 or do we up that by 1?
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| 3 | Tree
ID: 585271011
Sat, Jun 10, 2006, 12:42
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i'm not really in favor of roster expansion, although perhaps one more spot might not be so bad, as long as that extra spot was "fixed" spot that could only be used on an ECW guy..
one of the downsides of including ECW, is, that to the best of my knowledge, there are no plans in place for regular ECW pay per views. that, to me, weakens just about anyone in ECW, because we early major points when guys are in PPVs.
it's also another argument against incorporating ECW into our league.
if there are currently announced PPV plans, i apologize for not paying more attention. but, if there are no plans, i think this is something to strongly consider.
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| 4 | Tree
ID: 585271011
Sat, Jun 10, 2006, 12:44
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regarding the flex idea in the other thread, maybe it is time to go to "positions", in other sports. maybe we go to 7 starters, requiring one ECW, two Raw, two Smackdown, and two "flex".
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| 5 | slosh23
ID: 54857316
Sat, Jun 10, 2006, 13:21
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Another question that needs to be thrown out there (and I'm looking at this because I have the #1 WW spot right now) is the use of the WW to grab possible ECW guys to hold for next season. Do we freeze the ECW guys, except those that defect (ie those guys that were already on the WWE roster) or are any/all wrestlers available for selection?
In the spirit of starting with the ECW guys next season I would say they should be unavailable for WW selection but then that goes against the current free agent setup we have. Since we currently can grab any wrestler we think might be coming to WWE I don't think we can say those ECW guys are not available to be grabbed now.
Eh ... just another point to consider.
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| 6 | Great One
ID: 11139517
Sat, Jun 10, 2006, 13:22
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I believe they are currently scheduled to have 2 per year (based on having this one in the summer, and they have one planned for early December). But the way they seem to phasing out Smackdown - if its a success this summer, you gotta think they would increase that.
Also, something I just thought of... they likely would be on the multi-brand PPV "Majors" like Wrestlemania etc.
So if thats the case, that would be 2 ECW PPV's plus the 4 multibrand PPV's.
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| 7 | Great One
ID: 11139517
Sat, Jun 10, 2006, 13:24
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I'd say since they are still appearing on all the shows (i.e. Sabu on all 3 shows this week), I don't think there is anything stopping you from claiming rights to him. But the risk would be we don't know how many keepers we will have at this moment.
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| 8 | Great One
ID: 11139517
Sat, Jun 10, 2006, 13:30
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... and they won't score too many points for you beyond a run-in or something from this point on (unless they have a match on a multi-brand PPV).
That being said, we should probably wait for everyone to chime in before letting any ECW claims happen - so a temporary freeze on that seems logical. I could see making the ECW guys off-limits if we want the expanded draft to actually make an impact, otherwise everyone will just start picking people up and there won't be much ECW to pick from.
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| 9 | slosh23
ID: 54857316
Thu, Jun 15, 2006, 02:02
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Going to bump this up one last time for opinions.
I was initially thinking that a freeze might be the best idea (just to make the next draft more interesting), but the more I thought about it there is no way we can freeze them. Impending draft or not, to say certain wrestlers are unavailable for picking off the waiver wire goes against all the league rules. To start there is no rule against drafting any wrestler, contract or not. Beyond that even if there was a rule about having to have made a RAW/Smackdown appearance most of these guys are going to qualify.
My post on the taking of ECW guys was thrown out there to get a reaction from those that voted against the scoring of both the PPV and the scoring of them from here out. I understand their voting and have no problem with it, but now I think it is more of an issue than ever. This isn't Heat or Velocity -- just look at the PPV and the matches that are being setup for the next one.
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| 10 | Tree
ID: 21551155
Thu, Jun 15, 2006, 06:56
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i didn't watch the debut show, mostly because i forgot about it, as the Mavs were on.
but from everything i've heard, it was completely one of those "that's an hour of my life i won't ever get back" type of deals - every review i've read, every friend who watched it, called it godawful.
and my fears came to be, although much sooner than i anticipated. Paul E and Tommy booked it, but Vince took over, and made wholesale changes.
even worse, the WWE let the Sci-Fi Network dictate changes - from the time of the show to actually storyline changes. the simple fact that the WWE would let the network change a non-offensive storyline (for those that haven't heard, the Sandman was supposed to beat an Alien, not a Zombie. but the network felt that having one human beat one alien would pretty much discredit all their shows, because aliens are always stronger than humans. seriously. i'm not making this up)...
honestly, i'm more opposed than ever to adding ECW to our little game.
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| 11 | Bond, James Bond
ID: 250159
Thu, Jun 15, 2006, 10:00
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Yeah....but what about Kelly? ;)
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| 12 | slosh23
ID: 10102211
Thu, Jun 15, 2006, 11:14
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**Disclaimer - Because tone and intent can not be easily picked up in writing over teh internets this post should be read as a friend ribbing another.**
I'm starting to see why Wiggs is getting so frustrated. You are now more opposed to adding ECW to our scoring because of the bad booking (that you only heard about)? Not that I'm complaining but did you see RAW and the waste of time that was the 'First Ever Diva Water Balloon (and I'm not talking about the ones on their bodies) Fight' between Torrie and Candice. Wait, no you didn't. Come on Tree, you don't even watch Raw or Smackdown. I really don't get your total opposition to this...
State of the League:
First the WWE championship belt is around an ECW wrestler. Currently in our top 10 - Mark Henry, Finlay, and Umaga. Guys now in the ECW that are top 10 material - RVD, Angle and Big Show. Which group seems more deserving to have their matches scored? Vengance, a RAW brand PPV, has 6 matches announced at this point with half of them featuring guys on the ECW roster.
With so many guys out due to injury, drug suspensions or just taking time off have you looked at everyone's starting rosters currently? If you are opposed to adding the ECW are you for shrinking the rosters to allow everyone to have a roster that fields people that are actually appearing on TV from week to week?
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| 13 | Tree
ID: 1411442914
Thu, Jun 15, 2006, 13:45
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Yeah....but what about Kelly? ;)
what, the girl that couldnt even take her own bra off? (ok, to her credit, she's probably fairly used to *someone else* taking her bra off, but still)...
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| 14 | Tree
ID: 1411442914
Thu, Jun 15, 2006, 13:48
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If you are opposed to adding the ECW are you for shrinking the rosters to allow everyone to have a roster that fields people that are actually appearing on TV from week to week?
i opposed to shrinking the roster as well. anyone who has finished in the bottom half of the standings in this league (and i've been there several times) has been forced to start guys they prayed might show up on TV. i had guys like Spanky and London long before they ever became tag champs.
i have stated why i am opposed to ECW previously. booking worse than smackdown and even raw just adds to it.
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| 15 | Great One
ID: 523121411
Fri, Jun 16, 2006, 17:57
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Hell, we don't even have a World Champion on RAW! RVD winning the WWE title scored ZERO points?! Thats crazy.
So was the ECW show, but I agree its not much worse than RAW or SD lately so not wanting to score it cause the writing sucked should be irrelevant.
You are saying that because they happen to be on RAW - we should give a singles victory to whatever it was that match with Torrie/Candice was.. and somehow thats more important than RVD winning the title?!
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| 16 | Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Fri, Jun 16, 2006, 21:54
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I still think things are too crazy and we need to see how it shakes out. This is a transitional phase.
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| 17 | Great One
ID: 523121411
Sat, Jun 17, 2006, 11:07
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Thats not the question, certainly waiting, it just seems like everything is out of whack right now.
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| 18 | Bond, James Bond
ID: 46211022
Thu, Jul 13, 2006, 00:14
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As I've looked at the ECW project over the past few weeks, one thing has become crystal clear to me: We need to apply their stats to our scoring ASAP!
By the looks of it, whether it's RVD, Big Show, Flair or whomever, ECW will continue to attract significant names from WWE for the forseeable future. This, my friends, we cannot ignore anymore---IMHO.
It's asinine for RVD or Big Show or Flair NOT to get valuable championship scoring points in our league just because they're not on Raw or Smackdown. Yes, I've had a change of heart in regards to that but if ECW continues to do what it's been doing---and there's no reason to think that they won't---then we need to make some sort of adjustments as well.
I know there will be voices of discontent that will try to persuade any that would listen that ECW in not worth scoring but I would beg to differ. What do they have to offer? A one hour show every week and a PPV every now and then? It's not like there's a plethora of talent being used; in fact it seems to be just the same five to ten. Since much of that talent has come directly from WWE, why don't we include their stats?
In the interest of full disclosure, I have ZERO superstars on my roster that are currently in ECW and yet I am still for an allowance of their performances to be scored in our league. In fact, I'd be in favor of going back and including all previous ECW performances this season if there was a call to do so.
Nevertheless, that's my take on the whole ECW situation. Anybody else care to chime in with their thoughts?
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| 19 | Great One
ID: 523121411
Thu, Jul 13, 2006, 18:41
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I'd be in favor, but I think the general consensus is we need to wait til the start of next season.
On the other hand, I don't think it would be incredibly hard to quickly expand rosters by 2 - have a quick little 2 round draft for some additional talent - and tack the show on.
I think it would just require someone else to step up and score it so it doesn't fall on Farn all the time. I am not home because of softball usually during the week, but could score it one day later in the week when I should be working :) And with only a few matches, it shouldn't be horribly time consuming anyway.
Also, I think we should absolutely freeze any ECW pickups until "an official decree" is handed down. Say we have a gentlemens aggrement not to pick any ECW "extremists" until further notice.
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| 20 | Farn
Sustainer
ID: 451044109
Fri, Jul 14, 2006, 00:22
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You guys need to get Tivo/DVR. It makes scoring these shows so much easier.
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| 21 | Great One
ID: 523121411
Fri, Jul 14, 2006, 07:57
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I am looking into that when I move in August.
Side note... any opinion on which floor of a 3 floor apt complex its best to be on? I know I don't want first for security reasons i.e. I can leave my windows open - second or third better for utilities etc? The middle sucks cause you still hear footsteps above? I can't decide. Email me to chat if you are bored lol...
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| 22 | Great One
ID: 523121411
Tue, Jul 25, 2006, 22:31
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Has anyone else watched ECW each week? I gotta say, its getting better. Its starting to mold into a pretty solid show.
That and CM Punk debuts next Tuesday at the ECW only show in NYC which should have a real crowd lol.... Angle supposed to return that night too.
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