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Subject: WWE Fantasy Thread, Volume IV
Posted by: Tree
- [22052618] Sat, Jan 11, 2003, 08:50
time to start a new one...
so, i've got a question about Smackdown that popped into my head, and i knew this kind of thing would happen, but i didn't expect it so early.
Los Guerreros fought the Rappin' Honky Fools (or whatever B2 and Cena) are called. Up until this, Eddie and Chavo were heels.
but when they attack a guy throwing out blatantly racist raps (as Cena was doing), and they're getting cheered by the fans, doesn't that make the faces now?
it reminds me of the old days in the NWA with the Four Horsemen, or WCCW with the Freebirds, back in the days when the bookers and writers could actually be creative.
the Horsemen were in TWO feuds at the same time - when they fought Dusty Rhodes and crew, they were heels. but when they battled The Russians, they were faces.
same with the Freebirds - when they took on the Von Erichs, they were the biggest heels around. But at the same time they were feuding with the Von Erichs, they were also battling Skandor Akbar's evil army - and in that, they were faces.
and there was no blurry lines. depending on who they were fighting, the crowds were solidly for or against the teams in question.
how would we have handled those?
and how are we going to handle Los Guerreros. at some point, if they keep fighting heels, we've got to decide they did, in fact, "turn", even though there was no blatant attack on a teammate or pal (aka Hardy and Moore - which begs another question, which i will get to in a minute) type of turn.
hardy and moore - so if moore and hardy start to feud (and rest assured, these will probably be AMAZING matches), is Moore considered a "turn", even though he did nothing but get attacked?
Tree |
| 1 | Great One
Donor
ID: 41136511
Sat, Jan 11, 2003, 11:35
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I would guess that having them be borderline is a way for them to determine whether they should be faces or heels - leaving it up to crowd to answer the question. If I understood what you're saying.
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| 2 | Tree
ID: 22052618
Sat, Jan 11, 2003, 11:54
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more or less. but at some point, if a team goes from face to heel, or vice versa, even if there's no "official" turn, they've gotta be awarded the points...
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| 3 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 1010341818
Sat, Jan 11, 2003, 12:29
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I'd say the Chavos haven't turned yet. We have seen faces battle faces before and heel vs heel fights are even more common. If they were to recruit one or more faces to join them against the vanilla boys, or if they were to take up in one way or another against another heel stable, that would make it clear enough, in my opinion. I think less discernable cases like this are going to have to be agreed upon by a league majority. Setting hard rules might be difficult.
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| 4 | blue hen
Leader
ID: 331038201
Sat, Jan 11, 2003, 16:24
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Matt Hardy may be popular, but that's because he's a heel. As soon as he becomes a face (soft), they'll hate him again.
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| 5 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 1010341818
Sat, Jan 11, 2003, 19:19
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The Chavos LOL.
I meant that the Guerreros haven't turned yet.
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| 6 | GoatLocker
Sustainer
ID: 60151121
Sat, Jan 11, 2003, 22:19
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MITH,
We all knew what you meant.
Cliff
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| 7 | mIST
ID: 3701817
Sun, Jan 12, 2003, 07:55
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I have specified in the rules that it must be a clear turn, this is the typical "Heyman turn" that he used to book in ECW where you never know exactly if someone has turned. And I like it, just think at the swerve when Kurt Angle (almost a full face after his win vs Big Show) "turned" heel again.
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| 8 | Tree
ID: 22052618
Sun, Jan 12, 2003, 09:16
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well, what about Lesner? lesner never really turned face, but Heyman turned against him - heyman remained heel, but Lesner went face. not really a turn for lesner, but rather an implied one - that the crowd bought...
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| 9 | mIST
ID: 3701817
Sun, Jan 12, 2003, 09:54
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I think that the Lesnar turn was quite clear, on the Survivor Series match.
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| 10 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 1010341818
Sun, Jan 12, 2003, 09:55
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I think Brock's continued feud with Heyman's entire stable and also Matt Hardy - who is not one of Heyman's guys - makes Lesner's position as a face pretty clear.
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| 11 | Tree
ID: 22052618
Sun, Jan 12, 2003, 10:47
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i'm not denying he's a face. but i am pointing out, that it wasn't a CLEAR turn perse - rather, the crowd getting behind him because someone turned on him.
wrestling is very different than it was 10-15 years ago - back then, if the 4 Horsemen kicked you out and attacked you, you were a face suddenly...or, when you turned on your partner to join the Horsemen (like Ole Anderson or Lex Luger), you were a heel suddenly.
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| 12 | Mike D
Donor
ID: 31022116
Sun, Jan 12, 2003, 10:52
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Odd. I think I agree with all of ya (lol). A one night turn, a la Rock v. Hogan at Wrestlemania, certainly should not count. But one that has lasted certainly would. Lesnar wasn't on TV for a bit after his "turn" because he was suspended (and in reality injured). It was easy to forget about, and there were no matchups v. heels etc..
No doubt the league can discuss and decide on any issues like this one, and in the more extreme situations even vote. Doubt that will be needed much though.
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| 13 | blue hen
Leader
ID: 331038201
Sun, Jan 12, 2003, 11:43
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I believe this is an exact quote from WWF magazine:
"Is Mr. Fuji turning good? No, I think the Powers of Pain are turning bad!"
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| 14 | mIST
ID: 3701817
Sun, Jan 12, 2003, 17:44
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Remember, Smackdown gets taped tonight, so we could already have a first idea of our points by tomorrow.
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| 15 | Tree
ID: 22052618
Sun, Jan 12, 2003, 17:58
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this is true - but remember, it's what's shown on television that matters...
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| 17 | blue hen
Leader
ID: 331038201
Sun, Jan 12, 2003, 18:08
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I'm not, and I'm somewhat willing to trade. Depends on who gets screwed.
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| 19 | blue hen
Leader
ID: 40029714
Mon, Jan 13, 2003, 12:29
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That's too obvious.
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| 20 | Tree
ID: 599393013
Mon, Jan 13, 2003, 13:15
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LOL. well duh! hmmm..wonder what else we can do..
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| 22 | Tree
ID: 22052618
Wed, Jan 15, 2003, 06:58
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hey. all you guys here doing that mock draft in baseball - wake me up the nex time you do one - i'm totally regretting being asleep at the wheel on this one. drat!
thanks,
Tree
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| 23 | MNG@college
ID: 117422015
Wed, Jan 15, 2003, 12:13
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Tree.. If we can round up a few more people, I'd do another one.
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| 24 | Tree
ID: 599393013
Wed, Jan 15, 2003, 13:00
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well keep me in mind. i also like the format they're using, with the fancy looking chart and everything.
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| 25 | RecycledSpinalFluid
ID: 211013916
Wed, Jan 15, 2003, 22:04
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I opened up my mailbox today, and low-and-behold, right before my eyes, 2 Wrestlemania XIX tickets appeared.
OK, so they're not mine. They're my bro-in-laws. Dork doesn't have a credit card, so who has to be the broker? Me, of course. Hmmm...wonder if I can charge him a RSF-Convenience-Fee like ticketmaster does. $14.39. What a rip-off. Then theres the $3.00 handling fee. I can make a killing here!
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| 26 | Tree
ID: 22052618
Wed, Jan 15, 2003, 22:16
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i think the fee should be forwarding them to my house.
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| 27 | Mike D
Donor
ID: 31022116
Wed, Jan 15, 2003, 22:42
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And an even greater gratuity if they made it to mine.
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| 28 | Tree
ID: 22052618
Wed, Jan 15, 2003, 22:48
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ok guys, completely unrelated...but i saw mng's post about a 5x5 league in baseball...
i think i probably started doing fantasy sports before a lot of folks, going all the way back to when i was 12 and bought the original rottisserie book, because the board baseball game (from avalon hill - no dice, it used these cards instead), was getting boring after about 25,000 games between myself and myself.
but all this terminology is leaving me in the dark. what's 5x5? is yahoo good for baseball? i don't want a random league, since it seems tons of people bail from those quickly. um. i dont know what else. lol. help! anyone got a primer, cause i wanna play!
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| 29 | wiggs
Donor
ID: 11032171
Wed, Jan 15, 2003, 22:52
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5X5 baseball is
5 offensive 5 pitching categories
Off stats
BA
HR
RBI
Runs
SBs
Pit stats
Wins
Ks
ERA
Saves
Whip'
I enjoy the yahoo leagues. If you get a good group it is alot of fun.
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| 30 | Mike D
Donor
ID: 31022116
Wed, Jan 15, 2003, 22:54
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What he (wiggs) said.
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| 31 | Tree
ID: 22052618
Thu, Jan 16, 2003, 06:48
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i'd love to play. my biggest concern is i get stuck in a yahoo league (kind of like the one i'm in now for hoops), where, in a 14-team league, 5 people stop playing their teams, and 5 people don't respond to trade requests.
i guess my experience is that i just want to be in a league where people are gonna play and have fun with it.
is that too much to ask? lol
peace,
Tree
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| 32 | GoatLocker
Sustainer
ID: 521040813
Thu, Jan 16, 2003, 13:29
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Maybe we can work something, but I'm getting close to my limit on Roto teams.
Wiggs gave you the standard catagories, but I do play in a couple where we have changed them around. In one we use walks vice runs.
I could be convinced if we decide to do this.
I like Tree have been doing fantasy sports forever (a good 20 years I would guess).
Cliff
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| 33 | Tree
ID: 599393013
Thu, Jan 16, 2003, 14:05
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interesting progression in my fantasy sports life.
1. when i was pretty young, my mom got me this book called something like "Cool Calculator Games" (yes, CALCULATOR)...one of them involved a deck of cards, and was called something like "Star Running Back"...
You pulled out 2 cards, and multiplied them together. Jacks were 11, Queens 12, etc etc. Aces were 1. that was the Running back's total for that game. and you did it over a course of 16 games, and that was the total. it got to the point where i could multiple 13x13, 13x12, 9x7, etc etc, faster than any calculator.
Then, to make it more interesting, i usually pitted tony dorsett, walter payton, chuck forman, and whoever else the great running backs were, against each other.
That was the early beginnings.
2. then the Avalon Hill baseball game i mentioned early. i would meticulously keep stats - i had to have been 10 or 11, over a whole season. if i was lazy, i'd only play 81 games for all 26 (i think it was 26 then) teams, then multiply their stats by 2.
man, i'm such a geek.
3. then came Microleague Baseball on my Tandy 1000. in college, i recruited a bunch of buddies, and we drafted players. i still remember this kid named Eric Brasher (i think that was his name - i wonder where he is today), getting the first pick, and choosing Jimmy Key with an emphatic "Jimmy Key, OH YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!"
4. after that, it was USA Today's old game - they sent you a booklet and everything to keep track of scores - and every week you got snail mailed (this was pre internet) your scores, and where you ranked and all that...
5. ahhh, the internet. Smallworld (TSN) was one of my first online discoveries, and i was in heaven. and this season, i've begun to discover yahoo, and yes, my girlfriend thinks i have an addiction problem. :o) fortunately, i curry her good favor by watching Will & Grace with her every week (and i've actually begun to enjoy the show), so she lets me spend a few bucks on fantasy sports every year. :o)
The End
Tree
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| 34 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 1832399
Thu, Jan 16, 2003, 14:28
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Man I loved Microleague on C64. I came across an emulator for that recently, though I think it was incomplete. A Google search should turn it up pretty easily.
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| 35 | wiggs
Donor
ID: 10261612
Thu, Jan 16, 2003, 18:33
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DAM IT!
OVW shot an angle at last night's syndicated television tapings getting Damaja out of the Royal Rumble. Earlier in the year, Damaja won a match in OVW that granted him the entry into this year's Royal Rumble, but due to changes in WWE's booking plans, he will not be featured in the annual classic.
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| 36 | Tree
ID: 22052618
Thu, Jan 16, 2003, 19:37
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Wiggs - what was the angle, and where do you get your OVW news?
oh man...my fantasy sports also included Earl Weaver baseball!!! i forgot about that. EA!!!
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| 37 | wiggs
Donor
ID: 10261612
Thu, Jan 16, 2003, 20:49
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that was on prowrestling.com
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| 38 | Mike D
Donor
ID: 31022116
Thu, Jan 16, 2003, 22:39
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Good Tough Enough show. Yep.
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| 39 | Tree
ID: 22052618
Fri, Jan 17, 2003, 06:39
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anyone awake yet? who was eliminated?
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| 40 | Mike D
Donor
ID: 31022116
Fri, Jan 17, 2003, 06:41
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No one (eliminated, that is). Fans could go to toughenough.com and vote to eliminate one of them though. So 4 will be at the final show next week.
That's pretty dumb.
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| 41 | Tree
ID: 22052618
Fri, Jan 17, 2003, 07:04
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eh, vote jamie off. all she has to do is eventually get a boob implant, and she'll have the job. so give one of the guys a shot..hehe
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| 42 | Mike D
Donor
ID: 31022116
Fri, Jan 17, 2003, 07:05
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Actually, she'd have been my choice to cut if I had logged in and voted.
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