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0 Subject: Raw Scoring help for 10/20 show

Posted by: Farn
- Leader [451044109] Wed, Oct 22, 2008, 11:42

I'm not going to post the scoring and then open it up to tons of debate.

So here's the situation...

The Adamle original this week was a gauntlet match for both Jericho and Batista. Both wrestled the same 3 guys back to back.

So, first Batista beat Regal in 3 seconds. So did Jericho. Simple enough.

But then, Jericho lost to Mark Henry via DQ and Batista pinned him.

And finally, Kane beat Jericho in a longer bout and Batista beat Kane in 3 seconds.

Here's the scoring of gauntlet matches from our scoring rules thread:

"A gauntlet match, where a wrestler or team takes on a series of opponents in a single show will be scored as one match. The end result will be a win or a loss versus the final participant in the gauntlet match.

However, as a bonus, the wrestler(s) involved will earn a 10 point bonus for each victory during the gauntlet match leading up to (but not including) the final match of the gauntlet."



So, how do we score Jericho who lost twice in 3 bouts? Batista won all 3 so he's 30+10+10+10 plus 10 for the ME. But what about Jericho?

And how do we score the 3 guys who were "fodder"? Regal lost twice by pin, Henry won by DQ and lost by pin, and Kane won by pin and lost by pin.

I am really at a loss as to how to score anyone but Batista. So toss your opinions out there.
1Great One
      ID: 389281515
      Wed, Oct 22, 2008, 12:37
Here's how I would score it based on my interpretation (since Adamle described so poorly) I saw it as everyone was in 1 big match where it took multiple pins to win.
So main event points for Batista, Y2J, Regal, Henry and Kane.

Then I see it as Batista the winner and Y2J the "loser" so I'd give him main event singles loss points -- but then maybe a 10 for the one round of the gauntlet he won?

Then main event singles losses for Regal, Henry and Kane.

2Farn
      Leader
      ID: 451044109
      Wed, Oct 22, 2008, 12:43
Here's my argument. Jericho lost twice in 3 bouts. How does he get 15?

Henry won by DQ and lost by pin. How does he only get 15?

Kane won by pin and lost by pin. Only 15 for that?

Just creating conversation here cause this isn't easy and effects a number of managers.
3Great One
      ID: 389281515
      Wed, Oct 22, 2008, 12:54
Yeah, but if you go that direction, then Batista technically won 3 matches.

Since its so messy, I just think the simplest way to look it is just like one big match with multiple falls.
i.e. Kendrick had a pinfall "victory" in the Championship Scramble but he still took the loss for the match since there were other pins.

4Great One
      ID: 389281515
      Wed, Oct 22, 2008, 12:55
and under "Gauntlet guidelines" each extra Gauntlet pinfall would be worth 10 more points...
5Greg Rude
      ID: 3919107
      Wed, Oct 22, 2008, 13:46
Henry won by DQ and lost by pin. How does he only get 15?

Kane won by pin and lost by pin. Only 15 for that?


This definitely bothers me too, while Jericho and Batista would rack up, it seems a crime to take win points away from those involved in the matches. Seemed like 6 matches to me, i dunno.


6Great One
      ID: 497221412
      Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 11:03
I assume Farn is looking for more input on this one... anyone else?
7wiggs
      Sustainer
      ID: 04991311
      Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 11:27
I didnt see the show, and the recap i read isnt written very well, so I have no idea how to score it.
8Great One
      ID: 497221412
      Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 11:39
Batisa and Y2J come to the ring.
Its an alternating gauntlet match.
Batista pins Regal, Y2J pins Regal.
Y2J DQ loss vs. Henry, Batista pins Henry
Y2J loss vs. Kane, Batista pins Kane

Batista the winner based on him winning all his matches and Y2J going 1-1-1DQ
9Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 12:27
Wow.

Based upon what GO says above - i.e. Batista "wins the match" over Jericho due to superior record in the alternating gauntlet, what about:

Batista:
30 for win
10 each for each pin within the gauntlet

Jericho
15 for overall gauntlet match "loss"
10 for one pin
Jack $hit for the 'losses' within the gauntlet

For Regal, Henry and Kane - how about granting them 'singles match' points for their best result?

Regal
15 for one loss

Henry
18 for DQ win

Kane
30 for win

????
10Farn
      Leader
      ID: 451044109
      Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 13:06
Species with an interesting compromise. My only argument with that one might be Kane getting more points than Jericho.
11Great One
      ID: 298238
      Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 13:06
I think thats kind of what i said in post 1... except I didn't factor in that Kane/Henry weren't neccessarily losses. Although they technically lost to the "winner" of the match, so perhaps thats how I saw it.

I'm cool with Species outline. Seems about right. Only question is who gets main event points... everybody? only Y2J/Batista since technically it was "against each other"

I am also in agreement that we all would like to kill Adamle for doing such a piss poor job of establishing guidelines.

12Great One
      ID: 298238
      Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 13:08
Yeah, Kane shouldn't get more than Y2J. So I say main event for only Batista/Y2J or Kane's gets adjusted somehow since he was 1-1 in the two parts of the match. Draw points?
13Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 13:23
Hard to figure this out exactly. Freakin' Adamle!

I agree it's hard to score Kane.....but getting a pin on the World Champion would seem worth more than Henry and Regal, hence my suggestion.

Does Main Event points only for Batista and Y2J even it up enough?
14Farn
      Leader
      ID: 451044109
      Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 13:44
if you give ME points to Jericho and Batista and nobody else and follow the rest of Species post then Jericho outpoints Kane by 5.
15Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 13:51
What else do you do? Unless you go singles match loss for all 3 gauntlet opponents.
16Farn
      Leader
      ID: 451044109
      Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 14:00
Oh I have no idea. Thats why I started this thread. :)
17Great One
      ID: 298238
      Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 14:04
How about an average score for Regal/Henry/Kane of their two results? to truly depict their participation. I still go no main event points for them using this rationale.

Regal gets 15+15 avg = 15 for two losses.

Henry gets 15+18 avg = 17 (16.5) for 1 DQ win, 1 loss.

Kane gets 15+30 avg = 23 (22.5)for one win, one loss

18Farn
      Leader
      ID: 451044109
      Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 14:07
That idea works for me GO. And then with Batista and Jericho getting ME points plus the scoring that Species outlined for them in post #9 Jericho would finish with 35, which is acceptable compared to these 3 guys.
19Greg Rude
      ID: 3919107
      Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 14:40
That sounds pretty good, but the only other thing is I don't see how they don't all get ME points ... we don't only give ME points to the winners of a 6 man tag match - or something like that.
20Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 14:48
I like GO's idea in #17.

Rude: true, but this "Adamle Original" was a gauntlet style match between Jericho and Batista, with the 3 guys as other participants. I agree it is a bit off of the strike zone for how we normally score, but in this case I think my scoring idea combined with GO's "average" for the 3 most accurately depicts where WWE was going with this booking:

- Big time promotion of the PPV match between Jericho and Batista - they deserve more "focus" of this booking and deserve more points
- The other guys were more pawns in the booking, and deserve fewer points

Not 100% consistent but I think most accurately reflects the intent of our scoring system overall.
21Farn
      Leader
      ID: 451044109
      Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 14:58
To add to that, when there is a battle royal only a certain percentage get ME points. So you can see this a little like that.
22Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 15:30
So that leaves:

Batista
30 (gauntlet match win)
10+10+10 for 3 gauntlet pins
10 main event
70 total

Jericho
15 (match loss)
10 gauntlet match pin
10 main event
35 total

Regal 15

Henry 17

Kane 23

Agreed?
23Great One
      ID: 298238
      Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 15:56
Yeah, since it was a big mess ala a Battle Royal -- all those don't get main event, only the "Final Four" or last couple depending on the number of participants.

So this does parallel that.

24Great One
      ID: 298238
      Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 15:56
22 -- i support those final tallies
25Farn
      Leader
      ID: 451044109
      Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 16:18
I'm good with post 22. I'll leave it open to the floor until tomorrow and then post Raw scoring if nobody objects.
26wiggs
      Sustainer
      ID: 04991311
      Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 16:19
i can live with 22
27Greg Rude
      ID: 3919107
      Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 20:46
Sounds good. The ME scoring similar to battle royals makes sense.
28Tree
      ID: 559491723
      Fri, Oct 24, 2008, 10:23
did i win?
29 Zyre
      ID: 47349132
      Sat, Oct 25, 2008, 04:03
I am onboard with post 22.
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