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Subject: Raw Scoring help for 10/20 show
Posted by: Farn
- Leader [451044109] Wed, Oct 22, 2008, 11:42
I'm not going to post the scoring and then open it up to tons of debate.
So here's the situation...
The Adamle original this week was a gauntlet match for both Jericho and Batista. Both wrestled the same 3 guys back to back.
So, first Batista beat Regal in 3 seconds. So did Jericho. Simple enough.
But then, Jericho lost to Mark Henry via DQ and Batista pinned him.
And finally, Kane beat Jericho in a longer bout and Batista beat Kane in 3 seconds.
Here's the scoring of gauntlet matches from our scoring rules thread:
"A gauntlet match, where a wrestler or team takes on a series of opponents in a single show will be scored as one match. The end result will be a win or a loss versus the final participant in the gauntlet match.
However, as a bonus, the wrestler(s) involved will earn a 10 point bonus for each victory during the gauntlet match leading up to (but not including) the final match of the gauntlet."
So, how do we score Jericho who lost twice in 3 bouts? Batista won all 3 so he's 30+10+10+10 plus 10 for the ME. But what about Jericho?
And how do we score the 3 guys who were "fodder"? Regal lost twice by pin, Henry won by DQ and lost by pin, and Kane won by pin and lost by pin.
I am really at a loss as to how to score anyone but Batista. So toss your opinions out there. |
1 | Great One
ID: 389281515 Wed, Oct 22, 2008, 12:37
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Here's how I would score it based on my interpretation (since Adamle described so poorly) I saw it as everyone was in 1 big match where it took multiple pins to win. So main event points for Batista, Y2J, Regal, Henry and Kane. Then I see it as Batista the winner and Y2J the "loser" so I'd give him main event singles loss points -- but then maybe a 10 for the one round of the gauntlet he won? Then main event singles losses for Regal, Henry and Kane.
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2 | Farn Leader
ID: 451044109 Wed, Oct 22, 2008, 12:43
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Here's my argument. Jericho lost twice in 3 bouts. How does he get 15?
Henry won by DQ and lost by pin. How does he only get 15?
Kane won by pin and lost by pin. Only 15 for that?
Just creating conversation here cause this isn't easy and effects a number of managers.
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3 | Great One
ID: 389281515 Wed, Oct 22, 2008, 12:54
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Yeah, but if you go that direction, then Batista technically won 3 matches. Since its so messy, I just think the simplest way to look it is just like one big match with multiple falls. i.e. Kendrick had a pinfall "victory" in the Championship Scramble but he still took the loss for the match since there were other pins.
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4 | Great One
ID: 389281515 Wed, Oct 22, 2008, 12:55
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and under "Gauntlet guidelines" each extra Gauntlet pinfall would be worth 10 more points...
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5 | Greg Rude
ID: 3919107 Wed, Oct 22, 2008, 13:46
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Henry won by DQ and lost by pin. How does he only get 15?
Kane won by pin and lost by pin. Only 15 for that?
This definitely bothers me too, while Jericho and Batista would rack up, it seems a crime to take win points away from those involved in the matches. Seemed like 6 matches to me, i dunno.
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6 | Great One
ID: 497221412 Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 11:03
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I assume Farn is looking for more input on this one... anyone else?
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7 | wiggs Sustainer
ID: 04991311 Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 11:27
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I didnt see the show, and the recap i read isnt written very well, so I have no idea how to score it.
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8 | Great One
ID: 497221412 Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 11:39
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Batisa and Y2J come to the ring. Its an alternating gauntlet match. Batista pins Regal, Y2J pins Regal. Y2J DQ loss vs. Henry, Batista pins Henry Y2J loss vs. Kane, Batista pins Kane
Batista the winner based on him winning all his matches and Y2J going 1-1-1DQ
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9 | Species Dude
ID: 07724916 Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 12:27
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Wow.
Based upon what GO says above - i.e. Batista "wins the match" over Jericho due to superior record in the alternating gauntlet, what about:
Batista: 30 for win 10 each for each pin within the gauntlet
Jericho 15 for overall gauntlet match "loss" 10 for one pin Jack $hit for the 'losses' within the gauntlet
For Regal, Henry and Kane - how about granting them 'singles match' points for their best result?
Regal 15 for one loss
Henry 18 for DQ win
Kane 30 for win
????
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10 | Farn Leader
ID: 451044109 Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 13:06
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Species with an interesting compromise. My only argument with that one might be Kane getting more points than Jericho.
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11 | Great One
ID: 298238 Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 13:06
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I think thats kind of what i said in post 1... except I didn't factor in that Kane/Henry weren't neccessarily losses. Although they technically lost to the "winner" of the match, so perhaps thats how I saw it. I'm cool with Species outline. Seems about right. Only question is who gets main event points... everybody? only Y2J/Batista since technically it was "against each other" I am also in agreement that we all would like to kill Adamle for doing such a piss poor job of establishing guidelines.
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12 | Great One
ID: 298238 Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 13:08
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Yeah, Kane shouldn't get more than Y2J. So I say main event for only Batista/Y2J or Kane's gets adjusted somehow since he was 1-1 in the two parts of the match. Draw points?
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13 | Species Dude
ID: 07724916 Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 13:23
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Hard to figure this out exactly. Freakin' Adamle!
I agree it's hard to score Kane.....but getting a pin on the World Champion would seem worth more than Henry and Regal, hence my suggestion.
Does Main Event points only for Batista and Y2J even it up enough?
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14 | Farn Leader
ID: 451044109 Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 13:44
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if you give ME points to Jericho and Batista and nobody else and follow the rest of Species post then Jericho outpoints Kane by 5.
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15 | Species Dude
ID: 07724916 Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 13:51
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What else do you do? Unless you go singles match loss for all 3 gauntlet opponents.
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16 | Farn Leader
ID: 451044109 Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 14:00
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Oh I have no idea. Thats why I started this thread. :)
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17 | Great One
ID: 298238 Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 14:04
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How about an average score for Regal/Henry/Kane of their two results? to truly depict their participation. I still go no main event points for them using this rationale. Regal gets 15+15 avg = 15 for two losses. Henry gets 15+18 avg = 17 (16.5) for 1 DQ win, 1 loss. Kane gets 15+30 avg = 23 (22.5)for one win, one loss
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18 | Farn Leader
ID: 451044109 Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 14:07
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That idea works for me GO. And then with Batista and Jericho getting ME points plus the scoring that Species outlined for them in post #9 Jericho would finish with 35, which is acceptable compared to these 3 guys.
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19 | Greg Rude
ID: 3919107 Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 14:40
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That sounds pretty good, but the only other thing is I don't see how they don't all get ME points ... we don't only give ME points to the winners of a 6 man tag match - or something like that.
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20 | Species Dude
ID: 07724916 Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 14:48
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I like GO's idea in #17.
Rude: true, but this "Adamle Original" was a gauntlet style match between Jericho and Batista, with the 3 guys as other participants. I agree it is a bit off of the strike zone for how we normally score, but in this case I think my scoring idea combined with GO's "average" for the 3 most accurately depicts where WWE was going with this booking:
- Big time promotion of the PPV match between Jericho and Batista - they deserve more "focus" of this booking and deserve more points - The other guys were more pawns in the booking, and deserve fewer points
Not 100% consistent but I think most accurately reflects the intent of our scoring system overall.
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21 | Farn Leader
ID: 451044109 Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 14:58
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To add to that, when there is a battle royal only a certain percentage get ME points. So you can see this a little like that.
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22 | Species Dude
ID: 07724916 Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 15:30
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So that leaves:
Batista 30 (gauntlet match win) 10+10+10 for 3 gauntlet pins 10 main event 70 total
Jericho 15 (match loss) 10 gauntlet match pin 10 main event 35 total
Regal 15
Henry 17
Kane 23
Agreed?
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23 | Great One
ID: 298238 Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 15:56
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Yeah, since it was a big mess ala a Battle Royal -- all those don't get main event, only the "Final Four" or last couple depending on the number of participants. So this does parallel that.
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24 | Great One
ID: 298238 Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 15:56
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22 -- i support those final tallies
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25 | Farn Leader
ID: 451044109 Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 16:18
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I'm good with post 22. I'll leave it open to the floor until tomorrow and then post Raw scoring if nobody objects.
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26 | wiggs Sustainer
ID: 04991311 Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 16:19
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i can live with 22
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27 | Greg Rude
ID: 3919107 Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 20:46
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Sounds good. The ME scoring similar to battle royals makes sense.
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28 | Tree
ID: 559491723 Fri, Oct 24, 2008, 10:23
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did i win?
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29 | Zyre
ID: 47349132 Sat, Oct 25, 2008, 04:03
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I am onboard with post 22.
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