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0 Subject: RWF rules/keepers/rosters RESTRUCTURE dicussion

Posted by: Species
- Dude [07724916] Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 13:47

In the news and discussion thread a discussion has gone on about the league becoming boring and uncompetitive. It has become the pattern in the league to have a small minority of "stacked" rosters of main eventers lapping the field 2 or 3 times over creating no excitement for the vast majority of the league. Yeah it's great when you are a four-time, four-time, four-time, four-time Champion like me, but for the majority of the league it's a vicious cycle.

We have had a pretty awesome run in this league that we made up by ourselves. Overall it has had very little true discontent.....but the fact is that the keeper and roster structures as they are now have encouraged a continuous hording of top talent while the bottom feeders stockpile draft picks.....only to see those picks have much less worth than they should as the top teams have 3 or more top 10 wrestlers.

While some of the details are still being discussed, there is a general sentiment that most seem to agree with that some kind of restructuring is in order. We are batting around different keeper/starter/total roster number combinations that would keep things livelier and more interesting from top to bottom. The thought it to create more parity, make roster choices tougher and keep interest keener. The two main points are:

1 - Keeper/starter/total roster configuration

Currently we have 4 keepers, 6 starters and 8 total wrestlers, referred to as a 4/6/8 structure. We have had discussions about a 2/5/7 configuration, which limits the roster size and lowers your starters which should leave more on the waiver wire. With only 2 keepers it also makes each successive draft all the more exciting, as you will be able to have a true shot at strong wrestlers each year.

On one hand people think that lowering starters would make the league more exciting. On the other hand, people think it might be "too easy" to field a full roster.

2 - Start from total scratch or do a modified keeper/draft pick structure?

Things are still being discussed on this one, with cogent arguments on both sides. There is one position that thinks that teams that worked hard to build up their rosters or draft pick positions shouldn't be penalized for that. Another position is - if you have to restructure the league, just blow it up completely, re-draft from scratch and start your new keeper and roster rules all at once.

Let's hear from EVERYONE. This is our league, from 1 to 10. Some teams will get a short straw no matter what we do. But, if we can make a more fun, competitive league for all 10 teams, it seems worth it.
Only the 50 most recent replies are currently shown. Click on this text to display hidden posts as well.
58DWetzel at work
      ID: 49962710
      Mon, Jul 13, 2009, 15:02
If you need random numbers/assignments, I'd be willing to do that if Guru can't quickly. I randomly observe the league for amusement value.
59 Great One
      ID: 17459269
      Mon, Jul 13, 2009, 15:10
I found a free one at FFtoolbox, but I have to put in all 10 emails and I don't want to get everyone spammed. I'm cool with sending a list to Guru or DWetzel (shoot me an email, thanks).
60Farn
      Leader
      ID: 451044109
      Mon, Jul 13, 2009, 15:11
amusement? You should start chiming in. :)
61DWetzel at work
      ID: 49962710
      Mon, Jul 13, 2009, 15:16
Believe me, you don't want that.

I do know enough to know who the 10 managers are (but just to be safe, you may want to list them again!). I'll do some severe Excel style randomization and get you a draft order pretty quick-like if you want one.
62Great One
      ID: 065867
      Mon, Jul 13, 2009, 15:21
Farn
Wiggs
GO
Bobo
Rude
Tree
Mike D
Goatlocker
Zyre
Species
63Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Mon, Jul 13, 2009, 17:01
Can I now accept my right to choose my spot in the draft?!? LMAO

Ummmmmm......and this wasn't exactly intended to be "Majority Rules" decision......although IMO I don't think the 2/4/6 voters will have a problem with 2/5/7, but I don't want to speak for them.
64Great One
      ID: 17459269
      Mon, Jul 13, 2009, 17:13
Majority rules is really the only way to do it I'd say. And Mike's "abstain" vote actually helps give an odd number to the situation.
65Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Mon, Jul 13, 2009, 17:19
Well, a decision definitely needs to be finalized. I would just hate for someone to come kicking and scratching instead of willingly.

Re: #62 - oh cool! I just realized that GO was just listing everyone in the league so DWetzel could randomize the draft order! Phew!!

I find it amusing that DWetzel observers our league for amusement.
66Mike D
      Leader
      ID: 041831612
      Mon, Jul 13, 2009, 17:33
I can move my abstain if need be. Although according to GO, I have helped the league in doing so (lol).

So we are putting the draft order handling in the hands of a madman onlooker named DWetzel, who claims to be at work? WTF?

LMAO!
67Farn
      Leader
      ID: 451044109
      Mon, Jul 13, 2009, 18:04
I won't fight 2/5/7. I prefer 2/4/6 but I'll be fine.

Dwetzel, I'd like the #3 pick please. Thanks.
68Great One
      ID: 205282111
      Mon, Jul 13, 2009, 20:07
I used to hang out with a Jason Whetzell in college, I bet they are related. Hope he gets the check.
69Macho Man
      ID: 405122015
      Mon, Jul 13, 2009, 21:37
DWetzzzzel Yeah! DIG IT!

Probably just likes my predictions, uh huh!
Gonna twist and tuuuurn the draft order like a pretzel, DWetzel, Yeaah until you dip it in the mustaaaard and we are in businessss for Season 14! Can you feel me!
70DWetzel
      ID: 33337117
      Mon, Jul 13, 2009, 21:40
Hehe--I enjoy watching wrestling occasionally (family obligations mean I don't get to very much though). This sort of keeps me slightly in the loop as to what's going on.

Anyhoo... your random draft order (selected by entering the names in Excel, then entering the RAND () function next to all ten, then asking my wife for a number between 1 and 10--she chose 7--then entering that many numbers into other Excel sheets so that the RAND would recalculate 7 times)... your draft order is:

Bobo
Wiggs
Tree
Mike D
Goatlocker
Zyre
GO
Rude
Farn
Species


Enjoy.
71Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Mon, Jul 13, 2009, 21:44
Recount!
72Greg Rude
      ID: 405122015
      Mon, Jul 13, 2009, 21:46
It will work, but I still think we let Species put his name where he wants - then everyone else under him moves down a spot.
73Greg Rude
      ID: 405122015
      Mon, Jul 13, 2009, 21:48
Except we should verify he isn't a friend of Bobo or Wiggs. lol
74DWetzel
      ID: 33337117
      Mon, Jul 13, 2009, 22:05
For the record, Excel spits out a random number between 0 and 1 with that function... Species' number was something like .0006. That's not good.
75Mike D
      Leader
      ID: 041831612
      Mon, Jul 13, 2009, 22:16
Neither Bobo nor wiggs have friends who can spew out all that Excel stuff. I'm not sure they can even copy and paste. Well, except Farn. He copied some test questions once I heard.

I'm convinced of the legitimacy of this thoughtful, caring, detailed, and professional number juggler.

Oh and I just noticed I pick 4th. Nice.
76Mike D
      Leader
      ID: 041831612
      Mon, Jul 13, 2009, 22:17
And thanks to the redraft, 4th won't be between Barry Horrowitz and Steve Lombardi.
77Mike D
      Leader
      ID: 041831612
      Mon, Jul 13, 2009, 22:21
List of wrestlers that were either on rosters, had scored points, or were free agents with point potential:

Alicia Fox
Batista
Beth Phoenix
Big Show
Brett DiBiase
Brian Kendrick
Brie Bella
Candice
Carlito
Charlie Haas
Chavo Guerrero
Chris Jericho
Chris Masters
Christian Cage
CM Punk
Cody Rhodes
Curt Hawkins
D.H. Smith
DJ Gabriel
Dolph Ziggler
Donald Trump
Edge
Eric Escobar
Evan Bourne
Eve Torres
Ezekiel
Festus
Finlay
Funaki
Gail Kim
Goldust
Great Khali
Gregory Helms
Hornswaggle
Jack Swagger
Jamie Noble
Jeff Hardy
Jerry Lawler
Jesse Dalton
Jillian Hall
Jim Ross
Jimmy Wang Yang
Joe Hennig
John Cena
John Morrison
Josh Matthews
JTG
Kane
Katie Lea Burchill
Kelly Kelly
Ken Kennedy
Kofi Kingston
Kurt Angle
Layla
Low Ki
Maria
Mark Henry
Maryse
Matt Hardy
Matt Striker
Melina
Michael Cole
Michelle McCool
Mickie James
Mike Knox
Mike Mizanin
MVP
Nattie Neidhart
Nicole Bella
Paul Burchill
Primo
Randy Orton
Ranjin Singh
Rey Mysterio
Rhino
Ric Flair
Ricky Ortiz
Ricky Steamboat
Ron Killings
Rosa Mendes
Santino Marella
Shad Gaspard
Shane McMahon
Shawn Michaels
Sheamus O'Shaunessy
Shelton Benjamin
Sim Snuka
Stephanie McMahon
Stu Sanders
Ted Dibiase Jr
Theodore Long
Tiffany
Todd Grisham
Tommy Dreamer
Tony Atlas
Triple H
Tyson Kidd
Umaga
Undertaker
Vickie Guerrero
Vince McMahon
Vladimir Kozlov
William Regal
Zack Ryder
78Greg Rude
      ID: 405122015
      Mon, Jul 13, 2009, 22:37
Mike, any chance we will get a slightly updated weekly standings chart to use as a tool?
79Great One
      ID: 205282111
      Mon, Jul 13, 2009, 22:40
I know how to do a V-Lookup!
80wiggs
      Leader
      ID: 04991311
      Mon, Jul 13, 2009, 22:48
is that the draft order, or the order that we select our draft position?
81Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Mon, Jul 13, 2009, 22:54
Draft order.
82Mike D
      Leader
      ID: 041831612
      Mon, Jul 13, 2009, 22:55
I was halfway done week 12, so I can finish it. There's a chance I can do week 13 tomorrow night.
83Farn
      Leader
      ID: 451044109
      Mon, Jul 13, 2009, 23:26
Ya know, we could make that the order in which we select positions. Either is fine with me since I'll get the same spot anyway.
84wiggs
      Leader
      ID: 04991311
      Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 10:35
I am not so sure you will farn :)
85Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 11:37
Let's just call it the draft order. This isn't RIBC.

Have we heard confirmation from Tree that he'll be ready tomorrow......and is Bobo alive?
86Farn
      Leader
      ID: 451044109
      Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 13:47
Should I open a thread to start the draft? Anyone who wants to draft probably could. Might not hurt to get it going early with people going out of town and needing 7 rounds to draft.
87Great One
      ID: 17459269
      Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 13:53
I'd say go ahead, 3 hour clock starting tomorrow at noon? But Bobo is still missing so it may not matter...
88Farn
      Leader
      ID: 451044109
      Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 13:55
Oh true. Well I guess we'd kill 2 birds with 1 stone: find out if Bobo is game and get the first pick made at once.


I'll get a thread going soon.
89Great One
      ID: 17459269
      Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 13:58
And keep the thread titles short... maybe a Season 14 Draft and then a Season 14 News & Discussion... no more of this abomination of a title that Species came up with.

Also, I know we all kind of know, but just needs to be thrown out there that with the 2/5/7 we are continuing to throw back high scorer. Perhaps we should summarize this all in the first S14 News thread.

90Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 14:01
i'm good. just been busy the last few days. the girlfriend is leaving for 4 weeks in australia tonight...

bobo is around. he's a teacher though, so he relishes his summers. but he'll be ready, i'm sure.
91Farn
      Leader
      ID: 451044109
      Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 14:02
I'm in the same boat. I relish my summers too. I spend them catching up on things like Rotoguru and GLB. :)
92Farn
      Leader
      ID: 451044109
      Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 14:09
ya know its just occurring to me....

Because this draft only has 7 rounds those with the earlier picks have an advantage. yes, its the 7th round and no studs will be available but its still an advantage.
93Great One
      ID: 17459269
      Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 14:18
Maybe reverse the starting waiver order opposite of the 7th (and 1st)?
94Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 14:26
Yeah, being last in the 1st and 7th is a bad draw. I could see no snaking in round 7 and going inverse of Round 1.
95Farn
      Leader
      ID: 451044109
      Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 15:01
well if thats what we want we'd need to decide soon. Whoever drafts first in round 7 should be last in the waiver wire. Just a matter of which way we go.
96Great One
      ID: 17459269
      Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 15:09
I think thats plenty fair, you get a disadvantage there but first crack at a new guy coming along. We had to pick a waiver order somehow anyway so I don't expect anyone would oppose that.
97wiggs
      Leader
      ID: 04991311
      Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 15:12
that was 1 reason I was hoping we were picking our draft spot, I would have picked a later pick.
98Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 18:35
lol.......well personally I don't want to give up a high waiver spot! Keep it the same then if you're also switching waiver positions. No way the person with the first pick overall should also get #1 waiver priority.
99Farn
      Leader
      ID: 451044109
      Wed, Jul 15, 2009, 11:33
If/When we get to my picks this week please email me (or text me). I'll answer as promptly as possible.
100Great One
      ID: 17459269
      Wed, Jul 15, 2009, 12:31
I don't think we'll be doing anything til we hear from Bobo, or Tree gets a hold of him.
101wiggs
      ID: 4868614
      Wed, Jul 15, 2009, 19:30
so much for a noon start. has anyone heard from bobo? I will be away all weekend with limited access.
102Bobo
      ID: 49112318
      Wed, Jul 15, 2009, 21:09
sorry y'all - vacation in Northern Michigan took me away (and I loved every second of it) from the real world for a bit.

I get to make the 1st pick...and it is done. I am getting back in the swing of being online after some time away, so I will be checking in regularly.
103Great One
      ID: 17459269
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 09:17
No big deal sir, but as penalty you need to trade me Punk! :)
104GoatLocker
      Leader
      ID: 060151121
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 09:56
I'll pick in a sec.
I have no access at all anymore during the day.

Cliff
105Great One
      ID: 17459269
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 10:16
Cliff - I just want to confirm that you know Batista is injured for a few more months. That may be alright since we are going all the way to Wrestlemania, but in the interest of this being a fresh start and all...

If you were unaware, then I'm I propose we could let you change the pick maybe at the end of the first round?

106wiggs
      ID: 4868614
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 14:57
3 of my guys in the top 8 picks it makes me sad
107Great One
      ID: 17459269
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 14:58
I had #1, #2, #3...
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