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Subject: WWE Season II Draft Discussion (cont)
Posted by: Mike D
- Donor [23715270] Fri, Sep 05, 2003, 07:05
MITH on the clock. |
Only the 50 most recent replies are currently shown. Click on this text to display hidden posts as well.
[Lengthy or complex threads may require a slight delay before updating.] |
| 121 | Mattinglyinthehall
Leader
ID: 1629107
Mon, Jan 12, 2004, 09:03
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I'm all for whatever the group wants to do, but I would not prefer such a major change. For this league I prefer a roto style to head to head.
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| 122 | Farn
Sustainer
ID: 451044109
Mon, Jan 12, 2004, 10:22
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That idea is an intriguing one. And it would certainly keep the weaker teams alive all season (or in this case all the teams down by 500 pts or more already). But it also results in a team that wasn't the best all season winning in the "playoffs". I would prefer to reward the team that got the job done all year. For instance, it would be a crime for wiggs not to win this year. But under this format the playoffs would be starting soon and he could easily lose with his guys slowing down a bit the last few weeks. Just doesn't seem fair.
I would be ok with it, but I would think roto is still the way to go.
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| 123 | mIST
ID: 5351150
Mon, Jan 12, 2004, 10:41
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Why don't we just give it a try?
This isn't an "official" game, we can test everything we want.
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| 124 | Tree
Donor
ID: 599393013
Mon, Jan 12, 2004, 10:50
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to me, the hardest part about changing the format is that we would essentially be starting over - we've worked hard, and often, to tweak the rules to make this a pretty fun game. we'd have to start over.
this is a somewhat radical idea - and wiggs, please see this as no disrespect towards you - you did one of the best managerial jobs i've ever seen in a fantasy game, and you left us in your dust - but i'd like to see something to prevent such a runaway from happening again.
for all intents and purposes, it really was one show - that PPV where Orton beat RVD, and Batista and Flair won the world tag straps - that sealed the deal. that one night was worth like 450 points for Wiggs squad.
i don't know how to impose such a thing though - whenever i do though, i think back to Charlie O and the A's when he had a fire sale of his players, and the baseball commish over turned them for the integrity of the game.
Wiggs - once again, please, don't see any of my thoughts as anything but a compliment in the highest degree for you. it's like when they had to invent the 3-second rule for Wilt. he was so dominating, they had to adjust the rules just for him. :o)
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| 125 | Farn
Sustainer
ID: 451044109
Mon, Jan 12, 2004, 11:38
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well, you can't really stop a team from getting all those points. that would be impossible.
All we could really do is monitor trades and stop ones that could create some kind of monopoly.
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| 126 | wiggs
ID: 211116514
Mon, Jan 12, 2004, 11:38
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I have a question
When it comes down to keepers, is it only the points that a guy scored for your team that will count. For Example, I just got Rey, He has scored about 100 points for me. If I keep him is it 100 against my keepers, or is it 500 or what ever his total score is against my keepers? I hope this makes sense.
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| 127 | Mike D
Sustainer
ID: 41831612
Mon, Jan 12, 2004, 11:42
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Last time we used total points, IIRC.
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| 128 | wiggs
ID: 211116514
Mon, Jan 12, 2004, 11:46
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thats what i thought too, but i just noticed anyone that was trades is still listed on the old roster with points too.
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| 131 | Mattinglyinthehall
Leader
ID: 1629107
Mon, Jan 12, 2004, 12:07
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All we could really do is monitor trades and stop ones that could create some kind of monopoly.
I don't think you can even do that much. I don't believe it is fair to stop a trade just because one manager has too many good wrestlers or too many from one stable or anything else. The only reason to ever stop a trade is if a majority think it is collusion.
As I've said previously, Wiggs has set himself up nicely for future seasons, but unless he pulls off an unlikely superb draft from the bottom position, I don't think he should be nearly as formidable in Season 3. Goldberg won't likely sign with WWE after his contract runs out following WMXX. Goldberg is currently 16 points ahead of Randy Orton on the year. If Orton catches him, which is certainly likely, he'll probably lose both of them. Further, I don't believe he can count on another top tem performance from Ric Fair. Make no mistake, he'll contend and maybe even win again, but he shouldn't be stacked again like he was in Season 2.
One thing that I do think we should do is remind everyone that when they are considering offers from multiple teams, one major factor not to overlook is how good the teams you are dealing with are. This isn't intended as any kind of knock on anyone who dealt with Wiggs, as this sort of thing has never been discussed here before and Wiggs would still have a commanding lead if the Orton and Mysterio trades never took place. I'd also never say that we shouldn't deal with managers who are leading in the standings, but in the future lets just keep it in mind.
Wiggs, we use total points for the season and it's important that we do. The intention is to weigh the strength of the keepers. Otherwise, teams could just trade around their top talent in the final weeks and have them barely count against their draft positions at all.
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| 132 | wiggs
ID: 211116514
Mon, Jan 12, 2004, 12:14
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MITH,
That is what i thought, but i just wanted to make sure. Thanks.
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| 133 | Great One
ID: 141172214
Mon, Jan 12, 2004, 14:43
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I see my other question regarding keepers was answered here... so ignore it.
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| 134 | kev
ID: 43111845
Mon, Jan 12, 2004, 14:51
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I guess I will comment. I did not look at Wiggs roster when trading Orton. I had 3 deals on the table, and I took the deal I thought was best. I think, point wise, the deal I took ended up being just as good for me. I wish I had held on to Orton longer, but I thought Cade would be a consistant scorer- instead, after the PPV, he disappeared.
I did not try and ruin anyone's fun in this league. I realize I should have looked at the roster, and had seen what I created. I still think I was offered the best deal. The teams with the best wrestlers can also offer the best trades.
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| 135 | Mattinglyinthehall
Leader
ID: 1629107
Mon, Jan 12, 2004, 15:14
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Kev, I don't think your trade ruined anyone's fun at all and I don't think that you should accept any responsibility or credit for Wiggs' success - and I certainly never intended to imply any such things. By all means, we should always do whatever we can to try to make our teams better within the rules of the league. My only intention with post 131 was to point out that this should be something for all of us to consider in future trades.
That said, the best deal for you is the best deal for you, and that's always what you should go for. My only point is then weighing the pros and cons of all the details in any trades we are considering, we should also consider the standings as one of those details.
This suggestion on my part is not intended as a fix to prevent good teams from winning the league in a landslide. Given the small talent pool we are deealing with, I don't think any fair rule can securely prevent that. This is just more of a heads-up reminder to us to consider such matters when wheeling and dealing - and nothing more. Let it be understood right now that I am in no way trying to establish a trading blacklist for top scoring teams or suggest that anyone be otherwise reluctant to deal with anyone. Just noting that it is one more detail to take into consideration.
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| 136 | wiggs
ID: 211116514
Mon, Jan 19, 2004, 15:16
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I have a good friend that is interested in a team for next season. He has been following along with my team this year. Only problem is he would have to post his lineup from my computer, he only has dial up and some of the pages are ridiculously slow to load. I guarantee he will be around for the whole season and will be competative.
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| 137 | wiggs
ID: 211116514
Mon, Jan 19, 2004, 15:23
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As a matter of fact, I know he will be here tonight to watch RAW, Maybe we can give him Adam H's team now and let him run with it for the rest of the year.
Adam has not posted a line up or made a change since week 4 when Mike D posted it for him. He personally never posted a line up. What does everyone think?
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| 138 | Mike D
Sustainer
ID: 41831612
Mon, Jan 19, 2004, 15:25
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I confirmed with Adam H that he is still very busy and has no problem with someone taking his team. I'd be next in line to give up a team, though I can't imagine we'd find another interested soul. Plus there ain't much to it.
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| 139 | wiggs
ID: 211116514
Mon, Jan 19, 2004, 15:27
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Mike D, you should stick around. You participate regularly and this doesnt take up a whole lot of time.
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| 140 | Mike D
Sustainer
ID: 41831612
Mon, Jan 19, 2004, 15:30
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I will, but would give up the spot if a ravenous wrestling fan wanted to play.
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| 141 | Farn
Sustainer
ID: 451044109
Mon, Jan 19, 2004, 16:03
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Mike D- Sponge's team is next in line to be handed over so you would have to wait for another ravenous" wrestling fan. :)
i am all for Wiggs buddy taking over for Adam H asap. Just to see a lineup posted would be exciting at this point.
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| 142 | wiggs
ID: 211116514
Mon, Jan 19, 2004, 16:07
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i will wait until maybe 2 more give the ok before i let him know.
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| 143 | Tree
ID: 33021719
Mon, Jan 19, 2004, 16:09
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i'm ok with it...
and damnit, i meant to do the stats today...lol..well, there's still time!
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| 144 | wiggs
ID: 211116514
Mon, Jan 19, 2004, 16:12
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yeah get on it man :)
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| 145 | Farn
Sustainer
ID: 451044109
Mon, Jan 19, 2004, 16:23
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Tree-
You think it would be possible to create a spreadsheet where wiggs or I could just pump the points into it after Raw and Smackdown and really cut down on your work?
I am not sure what you use but if it would speed it up I am happy to put the raw points in there whenever i do them. and wiggs could probably do the same when he does them.
maybe we could find a way to automate them and really cut down on work.
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| 146 | Tree
ID: 33021719
Mon, Jan 19, 2004, 17:11
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it's actually a lot easier than it was last year. last year was a HUGE pain in the ass...
what's not automated is the top 20 stuff - the rest of it just requires inputting in the right places, and sorting and stuff...
if you've got basic knowledge of excel, it's easy...
wiggs has volunteered to do it as well. i gotta get motivated to do some instructions...maybe i'll work on that during raw tonight...:o)
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| 147 | young Gunz
ID: 211116514
Mon, Jan 19, 2004, 21:29
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hey guys, my name is Corey, I am a friend of Wiggs and he told me I might be able to take over a team. I am really looking forward to it. Thanks
Young Gunz
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| 148 | Mike D
Sustainer
ID: 41831612
Mon, Jan 19, 2004, 21:34
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The team needs you, and someone with vast managerial experience......I'm thinking you and Bobby Heenan should co-manage it. ;)
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| 149 | Tree
ID: 33021719
Mon, Jan 19, 2004, 22:23
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Bobby Heenan will be returning to the ring in April...in Ring of Honor!!
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| 150 | young gunz
ID: 210211923
Thu, Jan 22, 2004, 19:30
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I am over at wiggs to watch smackdown and we decided I should try to trade HHH for 2 quality scorers. Anyone have any ideas send some offers. I will probably be here til 1030 or 11.
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| 151 | Mike D
Sustainer
ID: 41831612
Thu, Jan 22, 2004, 19:43
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We decided? I smell collusion! (j/k)
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| 152 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 217351118
Thu, Jan 22, 2004, 19:44
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I'll give you Trish and Rikishi.
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| 153 | Mike D
Sustainer
ID: 41831612
Thu, Jan 22, 2004, 19:45
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I'll give you Tajiri and Lance Storm, and a six-pack to be named later.
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| 154 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 217351118
Thu, Jan 22, 2004, 19:45
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Ahh that's stupid of me. You'll have to give up Trish anyway. OK. Trish and Vince.
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| 155 | Mike D
Sustainer
ID: 41831612
Thu, Jan 22, 2004, 19:45
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Doh! Edged out by MITH, while I checked my team!
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| 156 | Farn
Sustainer
ID: 451044109
Thu, Jan 22, 2004, 19:46
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Molly (current champ) and Victoria?
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| 157 | Tree
ID: 550182219
Thu, Jan 22, 2004, 20:24
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I'll give you Spanky and Maven...
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| 158 | young gunz
ID: 210211923
Thu, Jan 22, 2004, 20:37
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going to need 2 quality scorers if i am going to give up hhh.
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| 159 | Mike D
Sustainer
ID: 41831612
Thu, Jan 22, 2004, 21:14
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Have you seen the standings thread? It will help you define "quality scorers" bro!
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| 160 | GoatLocker
Sustainer
ID: 60151121
Thu, Jan 22, 2004, 21:28
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Welcome Young gunz.
Sorry I missed all the discussion guys.
Was out of town all week last week.
I really think leaving things the way we have them is for the best.
We have no way of controlling story lines or getting a long range feel for what is really going to happen.
So, we all just make educated guesses.
In this case with a couple of trades, Wiggs came out on top.
Cliff
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| 161 | Farn
Sustainer
ID: 451044109
Thu, Jan 22, 2004, 21:59
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Gunz- how bout you start a new thread and propose trades to others?
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| 162 | wiggs
ID: 210211923
Thu, Jan 22, 2004, 22:27
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i am not real familiar with this site and i dont want to offend any one, but looking at the offers i got I think they were pretty low.
Trish and Vince--- when is the last time Vince has done anything and I would still lose trish, might as well keep HHH
Spanky and Maven --- Spanky quit, Maven has a broken arm.
Victoria and Molly--- Victoria isnt really doing anything except coming out with richards. Molly is nice, but once again I would lose her as my high scorer.
Tijiri and storm--- Tijiri is nice, storm is not much.
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| 163 | Tree
ID: 550182219
Thu, Jan 22, 2004, 22:30
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just so no one things i was disrespecting them, i was making a joke about Spanky and Maven...
the problem with my team is that i have Brock and Buh Buh as my key scorers. You'd lose Brock as your high scorer if i traded him to you, and i was surprised to look at the numbers to see that buh-buh has nearly as many points as Trips does, so you'd end up losing buh-buh too....
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| 164 | wiggs
ID: 210211923
Thu, Jan 22, 2004, 22:32
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tree sorry, i didnt know it was a joke, i thought you were low balling the new guy.
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| 165 | Farn
Sustainer
ID: 451044109
Thu, Jan 22, 2004, 22:34
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Gunz- if you are going to trade HHH you are likely to lose one of the two you get in return. If you would rather have Victoria and Shaniqua let me know. You wouldn't lose either of them. :)
In seriousness, send me an offer. Like I said, it might be a good idea to start a new thread.
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| 166 | Mike D
Sustainer
ID: 41831612
Thu, Jan 22, 2004, 22:35
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I'm in a similar position as Tree. RVD has outscored HHH (partially due to HHH being gone a bit, but still). My next scorers are Kane and Tajiri, who combined easily outscore HHH, again, partially because he was gone....but still......makes it tough to offer both of them (Kane/Tajiri). So, I used my next guy in Storm. I'd consider offering Kane and Tajiri if HHH and say Noble was in return. (I have not checked and am guessing about Noble being on your team).
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| 167 | young gunz
ID: 210211923
Thu, Jan 22, 2004, 22:43
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I know i will likely lose 1 of the scorers, but I would like to have a second scorer to go with it. If I am going to take someone like vince who does nothing then there is no point in doing it. I dont know how to start a thread, i will have to get wiggs to help me.
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| 168 | Mike D
Sustainer
ID: 41831612
Thu, Jan 22, 2004, 22:45
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Do you have Noble? I'll go check. You do. How bout Kane and Tajiri for HHH and Noble?
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| 169 | Tree
ID: 550182219
Fri, Jan 23, 2004, 07:04
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wiggs - i was sorta poking fun at myself that depth i thought i had disappeared when Spanky went on to greener pastures and somewhere he could make more money *and* be a HUGE star, and then Maven busts another bone and now blech...
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| 170 | Mattinglyinthehall
Leader
ID: 1629107
Fri, Jan 23, 2004, 09:43
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when is the last time Vince has done anything and I would still lose trish, might as well keep HHH
Hey man, just doing the best I can. You asked for offers and I gave you the best one I could that doesn't hurt my team in the process. Not that this is the best offer you have received or anything, but this would improve your team going into season 3 because you are probably going to lose HHH whether you trade him or not. If you're going to only judge wrestlers by what they've done recently, you're going to wind up with a team full of guys waiting for their 15 min to expire. We'll see how useless Vince is as Wrestlemania draws closer.
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| 171 | wiggs
ID: 210211923
Fri, Jan 23, 2004, 10:46
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Tree, That was my buddy that wrote that. He didnt know you were messing with him. Dont worry about it, he is a good guy.
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| 172 | wiggs
Donor
ID: 4991311
Tue, Jan 27, 2004, 12:58
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species, now (after seeing the rumble) you know why i wanted benoit so bad. 135 points out of the rumble, 5 last night, and I am sure he will be on smackdown this week, that is a huge week.
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