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0 Subject: Roster Deadline Proposal

Posted by: Mattinglyinthehall
- Leader [1629107] Mon, Jun 07, 2004, 13:25

I (once again) propose changing the roster-post deadline to the start of the first show of the week. For Sunday PPV weeks, the lead-in show (usually Heat, but sometimes they'll run Velocity during the regularly scheduled time for Heat when the PPV is SD-exclusive). So the new deadlines would effectively be:

7:00PM est Sunday during weeks with a Sunday PPV (assuming the lead-in show starts at that time).
9:00PM est Monday during weeks when there is no Sunday PPV.

- Note that the rumored Tuesday PPV would be considered a 'non-PPV week' for the purposes of our deadline, since the PPV wouldn't be the first show of the week.
1Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 1629107
      Mon, Jun 07, 2004, 13:26
Yea
2Great One@ Work
      ID: 40150137
      Mon, Jun 07, 2004, 13:26
Sounds good to me.
3Tree
      Donor
      ID: 599393013
      Mon, Jun 07, 2004, 13:44
i don't like this whole thing. i don't like that a few weeks later we're voting on something we've already voted on. i think the precedent it sets could be a painful one - that being we're gonna end up having votes and re-votes pretty much anytime wants.

this issue was voted on, and a decision was made.

at the very least it should stick for this season, and any change would be implemented next season.
4Great One@ Work
      ID: 40150137
      Mon, Jun 07, 2004, 13:45
That is a good point.
5Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 1629107
      Mon, Jun 07, 2004, 13:54
The purpose of voting on a proposal is so that the rules reflect what a majority of the league wants.

We have a situation where one league member says that he voted wrong the first time around. If his vote had reflected what he intended it to, we would have had a tie in the original vote. Another member, after seeing the new rule in action has changed his mid about the best way to handle it.

What's more important, making our voted proposals stick or making sure that the rules are set the way that a majority thinks is best?
6Farn
      Sustainer
      ID: 451044109
      Mon, Jun 07, 2004, 14:12
My vote is for the change.

Tree, can I ask why you think keeping it at 6pm is so great? Is there some reason you want to keep it that way? Just doesn't seem to make sense to keep it at that point.

I would also love to know why anybody wants it at 6pm Sunday no matter what. That just makes no sense to me.
7Mike D
      Sustainer
      ID: 41831612
      Mon, Jun 07, 2004, 14:28
I'll vote to change.

Tree, I agree in principle with what you saying, but again feel the uniqueness of this league sets it apart. Having lived the rule for a couple of weeks, it seems to be one that I don't like. To be stuck with it---which we could do---will certainly provide me with less fun. In a slow league like this, that ain't good.
8Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 1629107
      Mon, Jun 07, 2004, 14:48
I agree with Tree in principle as well. But I don't believe that his concern is a realistic one for this particular league. I really cannot imagine anyone in this league using this precident to shift the rules to their advantage in an underhanded manner - i.e. someone casting a deciding vote on a rule that works to his advantage and then proposing to change that rule sometime later because it now works against him. Such an effort would be outed right away and I believe the majority of the league would never allow it.

And for what it's worth, aside from the idea that a standard deadline is easier to remember, no one has ever posted any clear reasoning for why 6PM is better than the start of the first show of the week. A gametime deadline has the advantage of keeping a league that has always been defined as a lenient one as relaxed as possible, within reason. Further, a gametime deadline would just be making official the method we have pretty much been using since Season 1. If you go back to Week 1 of Season 1, the overwhelming majority of rosters were posted long after midnight Saturday night.

Yahoo roto leagues allow roster changes until 5 min before gametime. Most NFL fantasy games (except h2h) allow changes until a few min before game times for each game. Even before TSN Ultimate switched to the new gametime trading, the deadline was noon - no more than 10.5 hours before gametime. Having a deadline that is 27 hours before Raw starts really doesn't seem to make much sense.

I do wish I had made more of a case for gametime posting 5 weeks ago when this was originally voted on, but at the time I was really more focused on making sure that a deadline be enforced at all.
9Tree
      Donor
      ID: 599393013
      Mon, Jun 07, 2004, 14:50
i preferred 6 p.m. because it's hard and fast.

the reason we had to start being sticklers in the first place was because someone tried to skirt around a loose deadline to try and get someone into a PPV.

i'm not even inflexible. hell, i've forgotten the 6 p.m. thing just about every week.

but the issue of trying to add someone after the fact really, really bothered me.
10Mike D
      Sustainer
      ID: 41831612
      Mon, Jun 07, 2004, 14:53
So Tree likes it hard and fast, eh? LMAO!

Tree, that won't be allowed. The times of the posts are all recorded, and we all can see them. If anyone attempted anything it wouldn't work. Plus this group will be straight forward with things. If not......"no soup for them!"
11Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Mon, Jun 07, 2004, 14:56
Agree to the change while acknowledging Tree's point.
12Mike D
      Sustainer
      ID: 41831612
      Mon, Jun 07, 2004, 14:57
Species is either busy or he thinks he's one of them old time judges with little to say. I can hear the gavel smacking now. At least I think that's a gavel.
13Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 1629107
      Mon, Jun 07, 2004, 15:07
That's 5 Yes votes:
MITH
Great One
Farn
Mike D
Species

Great One, Mike D and Species each previously voted for the 6PM deadline.

Not sure if Tree has officially voted No.
14GoatLocker
      Sustainer
      ID: 60151121
      Mon, Jun 07, 2004, 15:25
Yes, as I said in the other thread, I was confused when I voted last time.

Also understand Tree's concern, but one of the greatest things about this league has been our ability to be flexible.

Cliff
15Great One@ Work
      ID: 40150137
      Mon, Jun 07, 2004, 15:51
My new girlfriend is flexible. I like that.

So we should be flexible here too. :)
16wiggs
      ID: 4854575
      Mon, Jun 07, 2004, 16:02
My biggest complaint would be
What is the difference between me trying to get a guy into my line up right before the ppv when i hear there is a line up change and Someone else IE: MITH trying to make a change now for kenzo? I understand that it is earlier in the day, but it is still past the original deadline. I was not allowed to make the change and I agree with Tree, you cant change the rules this late in the season.
17Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 1629107
      Mon, Jun 07, 2004, 16:12
I am most certainly NOT trying to make a change now for Kenzo. The roster posting deadline has already passed for the week and to change that after the fact absolutely should not be allowed.

Further Wiggs, Tree never said anything about making changes late in the season (we are currently at the halfway point). You're the first one to bring that up. Tree's issue is about setting a precident where we change a rule and then a few weeks later change the same rule again.
18Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 1629107
      Mon, Jun 07, 2004, 16:18
I assume I can accept that as a 'no' vote from you, Wiggs?

If so, 5 of the 7 people who have voted so far have changed their original vote. Only Farn and I haven't.
19Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 1629107
      Mon, Jun 07, 2004, 16:21
One more thing, Wiggs. It doesn't really matter because you misunderstood me when you thought I was trying to get Kenzo in for this week, but for the record you weren't trying to make a change "right before the ppv". You tried to change your lineup 30 minutes after it started.
20wiggs
      ID: 4854575
      Mon, Jun 07, 2004, 16:42
no, i will leave my vote the same as it was before.

21wiggs
      ID: 4854575
      Mon, Jun 07, 2004, 16:44
also, Tree said in post 3 that we should leave it alone til next season. I thought that meant because it was to late in the season this year to change it. I apologize if I misunderstood.
22Mike D
      Sustainer
      ID: 41831612
      Mon, Jun 07, 2004, 16:55
I think that's what he was getting at wiggs. That's why I wrote what I did in post 7, fwiw.
23Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Mon, Jun 07, 2004, 17:06
Mike D #12 - so is that a really clandestine way of saying that I am a verbose jackass? ;-)
24Mike D
      Sustainer
      ID: 41831612
      Mon, Jun 07, 2004, 17:11
LMAO! I'll look some of those words up and get back to you....... ;)
25Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Mon, Jun 07, 2004, 19:02
Which words? Jackass? Would figure that's right up your alley! ba-da-BING!
26Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 217351118
      Mon, Jun 07, 2004, 19:07
OK so if Wiggs keeps his vote then that's at least 7 for changing the deadline to gametime (Heat/Velocity for PPV Sundays), which is a clear majority.

Tree I hope your cool with it (and everone else who didn't speak up in this thread). If there are any decenting opinions they should definitely be expressed. I really believe this change is for the best. Obviously, this goes into effect for Week 12.
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