| 0 |
Subject: The State of the WWE
Posted by: Bond,JamesBond@work
- [137543011] Mon, Aug 30, 2004, 14:26
Would love to hear knowlegeable opinions from anyone regarding their thoughts on the current state of the WWE. I'll begin with just a couple of topics:
Storylines
This is the grease that makes the WWE machine go. Without a moderately good to great storyline any WWE personality would suffer in reputation, image and financial success. In my opinion some of the best storylines going now involve those personalities that are able to sell a story believably (i.e. Orton/HHH, Edge/Jericho, Cena/Booker T, Benoit/anyone etc.)
Exhibit A---Good Storylines
These are the type of feuds that people pay attention to the most. Though I am not too fond of rushing a feud (like in the case of Orton/HHH), there's little doubt that this storyline will be THE main storyline for the rest of 2004. Will Orton get over as a face? What part will Batista and Flair play in this scenerio? Will there be a new member added to Evolution to take the place of Orton?
Exhibit B---Bad Storylines
Likewise, we can ask ourselves "What on God's green earth did JBL do to earn himself a championship run?" Or "Isn't the Diva Search absolutely THE worst idea ever for WWE?" Isn't it a given that Carmella HAS to win in order for Vince to make good with Hefner for Torrie and Sable's pictorial success with Playboy? Or maybe we should ask "Why does Kane always seem to be stuck with some of the most horrid storylines ever?" We accept that the writing isn't Kane's fault but to his credit no matter what sorry storyline he's asked to participate in (Katie Vick, his unmasking, his marriage to Lita), he still manages to come out of the storyline pretty much unscathed.
Exhibit C---Not Good but Not Bad Storylines
Why in the world is Jericho NOT in the world title picture on a consistent basis? After becoming WWE's first Undisputed Champion, it looked like he was a cinch to be in the running for a long title run sometime soon in his future. Now he's so good at what he does (whether as a face or a heel), apparently WWE feels he doesn't need the rub that a long championship run would bring. That's not right. WWE, give Y2J the belt and let him run with it.
Also, did Eugene's reputation get harmed by too much exposure? Where else can they go with his character? Apparently Dinsmore is a very good wrestler. But will he be stuck with his Eugene character forever? Eugene was a huge face but now I can only see him as mid-to-upper card fodder with no chance at a WWE title run ever. In essence, will Dinsmore be hurt in the long run because his Eugene character is actually performed too good?
Injuries/Holdouts
I recognize there's not much WWE can do about injuries. It's part of the wrestling culture that has to be accepted. Whether it be Angle, Los Guerreros, HBK, Benoit, Benjamin, Test, Mack, Henry, Matt Hardy, Hurricane...or whoever else, injuries are probably the single most fastest way to ruin a good to great storyline. I'm not talking about a storyline-type injury that advances a feud. I'm talking about those instances where actual bodily harm is done accidently. Say what you want about Angle. I know the WWE wants him to slow down and to pace his matches more wisely. If that's what it takes to keep Angle around for years to come, I'm okay with that.
Holdouts are a different story altogether. Some of you may disagree but it's my opinion that WWE would be far greater today with Stone Cold Steve Austin on its roster. And not necessarily on Raw. I know he's probably unable to wrestle anymore but his take-no-prisoners approach goes over very well with the society we have today and would fit in very well on either show. I believe that his talent and personality would probably be best at this time on Smackdown but suffice it to say that WWE needs Austin somewhere, someplace.
In conclusion, I apologize if this has been a little too long to read. As you can tell, I enjoy discussing all things related to the WWE and I hope you don't mind if I take the liberty to do just that. However, please note that these are solely my thoughts as they stand today and are subject to change at anytime. ;) Looking forward to hearing your thoughts as well. |
| 1 | Mattinglyinthehall
Leader
ID: 1629107
Tue, Aug 31, 2004, 15:03
|
I thought this parody at ProWrestlingTorch was hilarious Triple H: Alright, let's do this. We need to find our fourth member here today, guys. You can't have Evolution without four people. All great groups need four. The Horsemen, DeGeneration X, the Nation of Domination, and so on. There's no way you can have just three.
Michael Hayes: What about the Freebirds?
Hunter: What? Why the hell are you here?
Hayes: I went to get a soda and got lost.
Hunter: I love that story. Davey Boy, can you escort P.S. Hendrix the hell out of here please?
Batista: Why soy-ten-ly!
Batista pushes Michael Hayes out the door and begins to welcome the applicants into the room
Ric Flair: Please stand on the big letter H and state your name and character.
Hurricane: My name is Hurricane Helms. I'm a superhero.
Hunter: OK. We can work with that. What type of superpowers do you have?
Hurricane: Hmmmm. Superpowers, huh? Uh….well, I, uh, I have green hair.
Hunter: Really? Green, huh? That's, uh, well, that's certainly, uh….thanks for stopping by. Next!
Batista runs up to the front of the line and stands on the H
Batista: Yes, my name is Dave Batista.
Hunter: Dave, you're already in Evolution.
Batista: (excited) Yes! I knew it! Thank you! Thank you! I won't let you down!
Batista runs through the room, jumping up and down
Flair: I worry about him sometimes. Let's call in the next guy.
Jeff Jarrett: The name's Jeff Jarrett. That's J-E-haha-double F - J-A-double R-E-double T. That's Jeff Jarrett.
Hunter: Didn't my ex pin you?
Jarrett: Haha. Listen up, Slapnuts. If you've seen my work in TNA, you know that you and I are meant to work together.
Hunter: Now I know you're full of it. T & A was Test and Albert. There was no Jeff Jargess, or whatever your name is.
Jarrett: No, no, no. TNA as in Total Nonstop Action. It's a wrestling company. We have a TV show.
Hunter: Right. Nice try. Take your white jeans and get out of here. Next!
John Heidenreich: Hei-den-reich!
Hunter: Next!
Eugene: My name is Eugene Dinsmore. I'm currently on Raw.
Hunter: Wow, you are sooooo five minutes ago. Next!
Ultimate Warrior: I know, you're thinking this can't be true -- no way, NO WAY! The real thing? No freaking way! Who am I? My name is Warrior. And I am the Creator, Owner, and Performer of The One and Only Ultimate Warrior. If you pick me, I'll throw in this genuine WWF World Title for only $35,000! That's right! You get the Warrior and this title for the low, low price of only 35K. Bu wait, Hunter…there's more! Act now and I'll toss in this super deluxe amazing shammy. Not just that, but also the handy, dandy pasta maker. So, you get the Warrior, the title, the amazing shammy, and the deluxe pasta maker. It's a $900 value for the low, low price of only $35,000! How can you go wrong! Act now!
[note - for those not familiar with this reference, click here)
Hunter: Hey, Warrior. Remember WrestleMania 12?
Warrior: Yes.
Hunter: Me, too. Next!
John Cena: You can't see me…
Hunter: …doing anything fresh or new in the next six months. Next!
Rulon Gardner: My name is Rulon Gardner. I just won the bronze medal in the 2004 Olympics.
Hunter: Wow. You have great skills. With your background, you'll probably be a WWE World Champion in no time.
Gardner: I hope so.
Hunter: Yeah, that's what I thought. Sorry. Next!
Sandman: Hello. I'm the Sandman.
Hunter: Splendid. I'm Santa Claus and Ric here is the Tooth Fairy. Nice to meet you. Next!
Batista: Yes, my name is Dave Batista.
Triple H looks at Ric Flair and rolls his eyes in frustration
Hunter: Whatever. Congrats, Dave. You are get the vacant spot. You're now in Evolution twice. Just try to move back and forth real quick so people think you're two guys. OK? I guess we're done.
Batista: (excited) Yes! I knew it! Thank you! Thank you! I won't let you down!
Hunter: This is over, Ric. We better get out of here. I just saw the Lex Express pull up.
|
| 2 | Mike D
Sustainer
ID: 41831612
Tue, Aug 31, 2004, 15:20
|
"I went to get a soda and got lost"-----HAHAHA! Great stuff MITH.
Bond, that's a nice overview. I tuned in to Raw last night, and eventually changed the channel. The opening segment with Evolution went too long and had no energy, IMHO. The Diva search part was pathetic, and a total waste of air time. I guess there may be a point to having Steven Richards rolling around in drag, but I fear we may never know. He has started----and not completed----several storylines over the years......bummer Tajiri was hurting, as that match wasn't very good at all. I almost wish they'd have skipped it and aired something else in its place, saving it and doing it right later. Batista/Regal very predictable, and Eugene/HHH kinda was too.
Nice to see Christian back. If Trish and Gail Kim start up a feud with one of them maybe turning face, now I'd tune in to see ever minute of those matches. Eh hem, great, um, technical wrestlers. Kane's surprise had a nice twist. They couldn't get HBK via satellite or something, just to say a quick line to generate more heat?
|
| 3 | Tree
ID: 76471215
Tue, Aug 31, 2004, 15:58
|
i haven't watched the WWE seriously in a long time.
the wedding segments insulted my intelligence, more so than wrestling in general.
the bits and pieces i've seen of the Diva search have been the lamest of the lame.
i did watch last night, and i don't know if i love or hate the fact these four women, on national tv, used phrases like "cum-guzzling gutter whore," "Having a COCK in your mouth has nothing to do with wrestling," and "Having a cock in your mouth, like your boyfriend..."
|
| 4 | Mike D
Sustainer
ID: 41831612
Tue, Aug 31, 2004, 16:08
|
The whole part was worthless. How can they think anyone enjoyed it? Besides the skin factor.
|
| 5 | Tree
ID: 76471215
Tue, Aug 31, 2004, 16:52
|
well, personally, i could listen to one woman call another a "cum-guzzling gutter whore" all day long.
then again, i expect it to break down into a cat fight or a porn movie at that point, and since neither happened on Raw, you're right, it was disappointing.
|
| 6 | Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Tue, Aug 31, 2004, 18:59
|
Wow. Have to admit that's pretty risqe`, even for 'cable' TV.
|
| 7 | blue hen
ID: 353412123
Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 00:35
|
Yeah, they are really pushing the envelope lately. Unfortunately, it's not as entertaining as it used to be.
Honestly, I don't mind JBL's character. At least he has a character, which is more than you can say about a lot of WWE contenders. Ted Dibiase was about as successfully a wrestler as they've ever had, and I think it's ok to reprise that, black valet and all.
The Rock is pure gold. Easily the greatest wrestling personality ever. I'm convinced.
I, for one, liked Johnny Nitro. Hennigan is at least as talented as about 2/3 of the roster, and they gave him a decent character, with the cocky persona that fits his real personality. He's young and he'll be back, and I'm looking forward to it.
You know what? They rushed the Orton/HHH angle, and that really pisses me off. Everybody saw it coming, and the only reason it surprised anyone is because we all thought it was way too soon. Bad. They were a GREAT team, and I'd have loved to see at least a couple more PPVs with Orton defending the title with HHH in his corner. How the hell is Batista supposed to trust Triple H?
They did something right with Christian this past week. I didn't see it coming, and I'm not sure exactly what it's going to be. But I do know that it's going to be great. Naturally - Christian himself is great.
|
| 8 | Bond, James Bond
ID: 27212622
Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 01:16
|
This week's episode pretty much sucked! Orton has a lot of work to do in order to become a major face. He's a natural heel---a cocky, arrogant young stud-- so I realize that it won't be easy for him to change to face mode right away but it can be done. I'd have preferred that he would've had a run as a heel champion but undoubtedly he can do that later in the 15-20 years he still has left in the main scene.
Did I just write that? 15-20 years left in the main scene? Gee whiz! Couldn't they have at least given the rub to some guy who's paid his dues for years? You know, someone like RVD, Edge, Christian or Regal? Heck, why not bring Tazz out of retirement (he did retire didn't he?) and let him go for the gold. Or why not make Flair a 17-time World Champ? (He'll probably have one more title run before he's through).
My point is that while I like Orton as the champ one must wonder what kind of reception he's getting in the back from these other wrestlers. Do they really feel that Orton has what it takes to take RAW to higher heights? Besides, after HHH, who is he going to defend his title against? Flair? Doubt it. Batista? No way. Edge? Please. Kane? Knowing WWE, probably. Yuck! Hope not. Imagine the buyrates for that title match! ;)
Let's face it since there is no championship-caliber heel wrestler not named Hunter Hearst Helmsley on RAW, it looks like we may be in for a string of Orton-HHH-HBK or Orton-HHH-Benoit triple threat title matches in the very near future.
One of the other interesting areas which WWE is teasing is the full breakup of Evolution altogether. Neither Flair nor Batista looked too pleased when HHH started bragging about his creation and I suspect that one of the great stables in WWE history will soon be laid to rest. Just imagine what it could have been with Orton still there as champ. That would've been fun to watch.
|
| 9 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 217351118
Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 07:34
|
He's a natural heel---a cocky, arrogant young stud-- so I realize that it won't be easy for him to change to face mode right away but it can be done.
It's all about crowd reaction. Jericho's character is just as cocky and arrogant and he is also a natural heel, but the fans accept him as a face and that's all that matters. In Jericho's case, the writers felt that the turn should be long and drawn out because of how entrenched he was in his heel persona. Thus the lengthy Trish/Christian soap opera. I think they realized that the fans showed themselves willing to accept his turn from the begining and they likly could pull off Orton's turn much more quickly, because, like Jericho was, even as a heel Orton is highly regarded by the fans (as opposed to, say, HHH who is well entrenched in his heel persona but not liked by most fans IMO).
I think turning Orton was exactly the right thing to do at the right time. Benoit got a sorely needed, respectable run as champ, and hoepfully he will get another reign in the next 18 months or so. But WWE clearly felt burned by being abandoned by Lesnar after they had handed him the distinction of youngest champ ever. They had a rapidly closing window (Orton's age) in which to hand that distinction to someone else who was just as much of a rising star in the company as Brock was, probably even more. Ss yes, I do think that Orton has what it takes. His mike skills are better than probably 75% of the roster and are still improving. His wrestling skills probably eclipse every power-wrestler and brawler on the roster, except probably for John Cena.
It was also clear that RAW needed a more dominant face character in the mix. I think Eugene's status as a main eventer is coming to an end. Benoit, Edge and HBK just don't offer the color that Orton's character does. Those other guys' personalities don't make for nearly as entertaining a feud with Evolution as Orton can. Perhaps Y2J might be almost as good, but WWE has made it clear that they want to keep Jericho as a borderline main eventer, at best.
|
| 10 | Mike D
Sustainer
ID: 41831612
Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 09:37
|
Lol-----Bond, guess who's wrestling Monday night on RAW???
|
| 11 | Great One@Work
ID: 18743207
Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 09:47
|
who?
|
| 12 | Mike D
Sustainer
ID: 41831612
Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 09:52
|
Orton and Kane.
|
| 13 | Great One@Work
ID: 18743207
Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 10:05
|
oh... I haven't read this thoroughly. Thought you meant Taz.
|
| 14 | Mike D
Sustainer
ID: 41831612
Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 10:13
|
I wish. I remember when Tazz had his "F the World" title in ECW. He created and defended it. He was a bad dude in those days.
|
| 15 | kev
ID: 3155515
Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 13:51
|
Do you guys figure that evolution will disolve, with Flair, HHH, and even maybe Batista starting their own stables? Apparently, the WWE has gotten the rights to a couple names- I don't have them on me right now, but I think that is what they are going for.
But there also needs to be a face stable that comes around.
As for the title scene- with both their attitudes, mike skills, and in ring skills, why, after the HHH/Orton feud is dead, wouldn't you throw Y2J/Orton out there? It has been a long time since Y2J has gotten a championship run.
|
| 16 | Bond, James Bond
ID: 27212622
Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 21:15
|
In my opinion, I believe that Evolution will dissolve sooner rather than later. They've been a solid stable for quite a while now but I think that WWE got out of them what they wanted: solid leadership skills from The Game, an unmistakably proven veteran to balance out HHH in The Nature Boy and an ability to use the stable as a training field of sorts for newcomers Orton and Batista. They provided a sense of entitlement without becoming stale or overbearing. They won much more than they loss yet they were willing to get some major players over big-time by "watching the lights" every now and then.
With all due respect MITH, turning Orton face this soon this early in his title reign will be seen later as a major mistake. The original plan of having HHH and Orton meet at Wrestlemania was perfect. No matter what the higher ups thought about the current state of affairs, bringing these two together in this current climate is NOT the right thing to do.
As far as Y2J goes, the reason the crowd was eager to accept him as a face was because he was a good one before. His little tidbits with The Princess a couple of years ago still make me laugh today when I think about them. He is very good at adapting his style, his personality, his charisma and his natural sexy-beastness (LOL) into any feud. I think that WWE knows if they eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevvvvvvvvveeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrr get into a pinch, he can take the title once again and be very well accepted by all.
Yes I've noticed that WWE has already scheduled the hotly anticipated (NOT!) Orton-Kane main event. Ooooh. Can't wait. (Note the dripping sarcasm) Whatever happened to the days when they would come up with a schedule of matches a year or so in advance counting backwards from Wrestlemania? This sloppy booking sometimes makes me sick!
|
| 17 | Mike D
Sustainer
ID: 041831612
Thu, Sep 02, 2004, 06:54
|
Sometimes makes you sick? I've found myself that way more often than not, unfortunately.
Evolution probably will not disband too quickly------they'll help HHH in his matches with Orton. After that, I can see it possibly ending. Bond, you forgot to mention that their entrance music rocks, especially in person!
|
| 18 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 217351118
Thu, Sep 02, 2004, 07:21
|
With all due respect MITH, turning Orton face this soon this early in his title reign will be seen later as a major mistake. The original plan of having HHH and Orton meet at Wrestlemania was perfect.
I think this will likely still happen. But I think HHH likes to have such events carry momentous weight by building the feud for months. How long did he and HBK feud for? a year? 18 months? Further, I think that it would have been wildly out of HHH's character for him to try at first to accept Orton as champ and member of Evolution. I don't think that would have worked at all and I think even more knowledgable fans would have been put out than currently are over Orton's early face turn. Once Evolution turns on Orton, there is no practical reason for Orton to remain a heel.
No matter what the higher ups thought about the current state of affairs, bringing these two together in this current climate is NOT the right thing to do.
I'm not sure why you say this. HHH and Benoit had no personal beef, no family stuff, no backstabbing friend stuff, no disgraced loyalty history. Their feud was driven entirely by the title. Now that Benoit is no longer the title holder, I can't see any reason for that feud to continue. So the current climate of things is that HHH has no one to feud with, if he isn't going to feud with the champ. And I can't see any reason for why HHH's character would waste any more time than he did with Eugene with a non-title holder while he is still trying to get his championshiip back. Remember, his involvement with Eugene began when he thought he could use Eugene to help him regain the belt (even if that was a pathetic storyline that never made any sense).
|
|
|
Post a reply to this message: (But first, how about checking out this sponsor?)
|
|