| 0 |
Subject: Stipulation Bonus - Formal Vote
Posted by: Great One
- [3481898] Thu, Sep 09, 2004, 09:37
I think we have most of them broken down and if something comes along we can decide where to put it.
If its something completely original - than we witness it first and then vote on where to place it in the future.
Not sure why no one thought of this sooner, but it certainly dawned on me Monday night when I felt Eugene earned a hell of a lot more points for his effort than Nidia. And I don't think anyone will argue that.
This is a rough outline of the points breakdown.
15
Hell in a Cell
TLC
Elimination Chamber
Ironman
10
Cage Match
Ladder Match
Tables Match
Lumberjack
Casket Match (Buried Alive)
Gauntlet (for primary participant only)
5
No DQ
Bra and Panties
I Quit
Falls Count Anywhere
Multiple Falls
Anything on a Pole Match
Pools of Fluid Match
Weapons Match
Street Fight
Hardcore Match
Last Man Standing
Elmination (i.e. Survivor Series)
First Blood |
| 1 | Great One
ID: 3481898
Thu, Sep 09, 2004, 09:38
|
YES. obviously.
|
| 2 | Mattinglyinthehall
Leader
ID: 1629107
Thu, Sep 09, 2004, 09:42
|
Yea.
Note, we still have not settled the issue of Battle Royale Scoring. We only have six votes, and I believe it takes seven to change a rule.
Species, Tree, Kev and Wiggs have not voted on that proposal.
|
| 3 | Tree
ID: 76471215
Thu, Sep 09, 2004, 10:48
|
a resounding no on this proposal. it's too random.
things that i'd need to see changed that *might* change my vote:
1. a provision to score unlisted gimmick matches. i mean, if we saw a WarGames style match, those folks should get points. and major points.
2. the elimination of wrestler specific matches, such as the casket match. has there been a casket match in the WWF/E that didn't involve the undertaker?
|
| 4 | wiggs
ID: 507593021
Thu, Sep 09, 2004, 10:51
|
I think that certain matches like elimination matches and survivor series matches deserve more points. Iron man match, maybe 10 points per win or something. My vote is no on extra points for all those matches.
|
| 5 | Mattinglyinthehall
Leader
ID: 1629107
Thu, Sep 09, 2004, 11:00
|
Tree, based on the discussion thread related to this prop, I believe both of your issues have been addressed.
1. Great One agreed that he would include a clause that any unlisted match would get either 0 or 5 points and be reassessed afterward if different scoring for it should be deemed necessary. Unfortunately, this clause appears forgotten in the final proposal, something that should be fixed. I think 5 points makes more sense than 0.
2. Casket Match, Last Ride Match, Car Trunk Match, Flaming Dumpster Match, I think they're all basically the same thing, right? Perhaps it should be renamed for the purpose being more general and inclusionary, like how we changed Jello/Mud Match to Pool of Fluid Match.
|
| 6 | Farn
Sustainer
ID: 451044109
Thu, Sep 09, 2004, 11:08
|
I'm against this proposal as well. I like the idea but it could become so discretionary that its bound to cause trouble. What if they create a match on the fly on Raw? We discuss it Tuesday? Right, because we know that if its our guy we are fighting for points and if its not subconsciously we want to keep the other teams score lower. We have enough time interpreting scoring now, adding more stipulations makes it much tougher.
I could probably be talked into having some of the tougher matches given more points (ie. 15 point matches in this proposal) but I am against bonus points for the women taking their clothes off. I love them getting naked but its bad enough they get 30 points for it already for a win. Why give 5 more on top of that?
I vote no.
|
| 7 | Great One
ID: 3481898
Thu, Sep 09, 2004, 11:09
|
and FYI I am leaving town til monday... just so everyone knows...
Obviously those point tallies aren't set in stone. Just guidelines. And I am sure - like a couple years ago when the Elimination Chamber appeared - we could all decide on an appropriate bonus for the participants beforehand when its a match of that magnitude.
And I couldn't figure out a point tally for the Elmination matches/Survivor Series matches. And no one else offered a suggestion. I almost think those should be seperate like the Battle Royale.
IMO the Ironman participants deserve every bit of the 15 points I was suggesting. That match probably has the most effort and is the most exhausting of any of the ones WWE puts on. It doesn't need weaponry to make it worth more. But 10 is still good.
And its only 2 people getting the bonus. Not like a War Games or Elimination Chamber match where 6 or more people get the bonus which is kind of strange. Would we give out 15 point bonuses to like 10 guys?
keep the discussion going..
I am off to Hilton Head for fun in the RAIN.
|
| 8 | Great One
ID: 3481898
Thu, Sep 09, 2004, 11:12
|
and yeah streamlining it just down the most important ones would be a different way to go and compromise of sorts elminating the discretionary factor.
gotta run!
|
| 9 | Mattinglyinthehall
Leader
ID: 1629107
Thu, Sep 09, 2004, 11:12
|
we could all decide on an appropriate bonus for the participants beforehand when its a match of that magnitude.
That is one thing that I disagree with. Its bad practice to decide the scoring for a coming match once you already know who the participants will be. Anytime we have done so, it has been out of necessity because our normal rules could not be applied.
|
| 10 | Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Thu, Sep 09, 2004, 11:34
|
I vote yes.
Stipulations are given for matches to create extra heat/tension/suspense/whatever. I think the general theme of our league was to reward those wrestlers who got pushes/TV time/etc. When the writers throw in a special stipulation match, they are putting a little extra "oomph" behind a push/fued, and I am of the opinion that it earns points.
How about this idea for those with concerns over randomness?
If a match does not specifically fit the above named stipulation matches, it must pass BOTH of the following criteria to be counted for a 5 point "stipulation match" bonus:
1 - It must be given some special name - i.e. "Bitch Slap Match", "Kiss my ass Match" - whatever.
2 - It must involve something out of the ordinary - be it an act the winner/loser must do, or involve some weapon/aparatus/venue change from the ordinary, or involve an unique way of winning (i.e. the winner must hog-tie the loser) - in order to count.
IMO, if it isn't one of our specifically named matches, but satisfies these two criteria, I think it takes the randomness out of the equation.
Would the above persuade the naysayers?
|
| 11 | Mattinglyinthehall
Leader
ID: 1629107
Thu, Sep 09, 2004, 11:40
|
Obviously, this proposal requires more discussion. I move that we suspend the voting until after Great One returns. It isn't an essential proposal, through 3 complete seasons we haven't been awarding extra points for special stip matches, so regardless of what we ultimately decide, it isn't imperative that we rush through this.
|
| 12 | Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Thu, Sep 09, 2004, 16:21
|
I don't think the proposal is flawed or needs to be delayed MITH. I just added my suggestion to calm the concerns of those who expressed them. IMO the 2 conditions above make it more cut and dry - we can't cover every cock-a-mamey (sp? lol) stip match they make, but the above conditions make it easy to figure out, points-wise.
While true it's not critical to the league, to reiterate what I love about this league is that it rewards wrestlers who are getting pushes, and gimmicky matches can add to a storyline and that has been what our league is about. I think it's a good idea.
|
| 13 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 217351118
Thu, Sep 09, 2004, 19:51
|
Either way is fine with me, I just figured that if extra time to hash out any details that people are unhapy with make it more likely to pass, the league would be better off. My Yea vote stands.
|
| 14 | Bond,JamesBond@work
ID: 53821012
Fri, Sep 10, 2004, 14:10
|
Withholding my opinion on this until I see a final proposal. However, as the rookie, I will most likely acquiesce to whatever you veterans decide. I'm not a boat-rocker so you'll get no qualms from me.
Meanwhile, it just came to me that RAW has had two RAW Roulettes in the past couple of years or so. I can't remember all the matches that were listed on the wheel. But, of course, they were all gimmick-oriented. I seem to remember someone chasing a midget around (may have been Hurricane/Rosey?) but am not sure if that was part of a gimmick match or not.
|
| 15 | Tree
ID: 76471215
Fri, Sep 10, 2004, 17:49
|
what if The Rock is the special guest referee for a "which Diva can eat the most strudel" match?
|
| 16 | Bond, James Bond
ID: 35815922
Fri, Sep 10, 2004, 20:37
|
Then I guess Lilian wins! ;)
|
|
|
|
Post a reply to this message: (But first, how about checking out this sponsor?)
|