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Subject: Raw Spoilers...
Posted by: Tree
- [37818819] Mon, Sep 13, 2004, 22:29
damn, Simon Dean rules... |
| 1 | wiggs
ID: 507593021
Mon, Sep 13, 2004, 22:31
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tree what would you want for him? he was always one of my favorites, and in fact i named my dog nova.
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| 2 | Tree
ID: 37818819
Mon, Sep 13, 2004, 22:53
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Simon Dean is the new Eugene, so he's gonna be big. what are you offering?
and on a happier note, Lita miscarried maybe.
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| 3 | wiggs
ID: 507593021
Mon, Sep 13, 2004, 23:09
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do you think orton qualifies for turn points yet?
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| 4 | Farn
Sustainer
ID: 451044109
Mon, Sep 13, 2004, 23:14
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I didn't give Orton turn points yet. But I have no problem agreeing to that. Maybe that could be a supplement to the standings sheet that MITH posts for week 3.
On the same note has Spike earned turn points yet?
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| 5 | wiggs
ID: 507593021
Mon, Sep 13, 2004, 23:15
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i would say he earn them.
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| 6 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 217351118
Tue, Sep 14, 2004, 07:00
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Good question about Spike. Did his turn happen before the season started? I'll look into it later today.
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| 7 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 217351118
Tue, Sep 14, 2004, 07:24
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Spike won the belt on 7/29. He turned on Mysterio on 8/5 in what looked like a pretty clear turn. Per the way we handle things, he wouldn't have gotten points for it that week, but since he continued to play the heel strongly from that point, he clearly would have earned the turn points by 8/12 or 8/19 at the very latest. Spike was already established as a heel by Smackdown Week 1.
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| 8 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 217351118
Tue, Sep 14, 2004, 07:25
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Smackdown Archive.
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| 9 | Great One@Home
ID: 18743207
Tue, Sep 14, 2004, 08:55
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and I was one pick away from him. Could have made my season MUCH different... ugh...
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| 10 | Farn
Sustainer
ID: 451044109
Tue, Sep 14, 2004, 09:48
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so are you saying those turn points should go on last season?
so basically i didn't get them last season and i don't get them this season? :)
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| 11 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 2824911
Tue, Sep 14, 2004, 10:00
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If you didn't get them last season, then it looks to me like you definitely should have. Everyone should remember that scoring this league is a group effort, and it should be each member's responsibility to keep up with the goings-on of their own wrestlers, especially with regard to the subjective issue of turn points.
A quick check shows that the extra 25 points for Spike wouldn't have affected the final standings or (more importantly) the draft order.
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| 12 | Farn
Sustainer
ID: 451044109
Tue, Sep 14, 2004, 10:43
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Oh I wasn't blaming you MITH. And I know if it went on last season it wouldn't have made a difference. The reason why the issue wasn't raised then (actually I think it was once) was because in this league we try to wait a few weeks to make sure the turn is legitimate. So I waited. Now that I feel like its been a full turn its too late to actually get the points.
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| 13 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 2824911
Tue, Sep 14, 2004, 11:06
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All good. In the case of Spike I think most will agree that his turn was definitely clear by the week after he turned on Rey. By the time our Week 1 had started, he had already been a clear face for almost a month.
In the case of Orton (as a contrasting example) his turn has been more drawn out. When he helped Eugene beat HHH, it was really more to get back at HHH than to team up with Eugene. I suspect Orton will come out next week aligned with Benjamin and/or Benoit and his turn will be more clear and complete, or at least close to it.
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| 14 | Bond, James Bond
ID: 31881419
Wed, Sep 15, 2004, 01:33
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In my view, the moment Orton spit in HHH's face he became...well, a face.
By the way, in regards to the Kane/Lita storyline, since it seems that Kane has ended Lita's pregnancy, doesn't this constitute a face turn? ;)
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| 15 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 217351118
Wed, Sep 15, 2004, 07:16
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Bond, we've definitely seen examples of heel characters turning on each other without either of them turning face. Also, swerves (a brief turn) are not uncommon, either, like when Ric Flair does a show in the Carolinas. Our rules state that turns must be clear in order for the points to be awarded.
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| 16 | Great One@Home
ID: 18743207
Wed, Sep 15, 2004, 09:19
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oh... and I vote for Orton's turn.
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| 17 | Bond, James Bond
ID: 31881419
Wed, Sep 15, 2004, 20:07
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MITH, with all due respect I believe the Orton face turn is complete. I fully understand that there may be shades of grey for some of the superstars. Edge, right now, is probably the best example at this time.
But as far as Orton, it's my feeling that his turn is complete. I may be wrong but with HHH regaining the title, there's no doubt...NO DOUBT...that they are on complete and opposite sides.
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| 18 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 217351118
Wed, Sep 15, 2004, 20:28
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Edge is a face. There is very little grey there. Two faces can feud. Two heels can feud. I do agree that Orton is likely a face now, but aside from his new feud with Evolution, there are very few actual signs to support this, other than his feud with Evolution and our knowledge with how WWE typically runs their story lines. We have established and agreed upon rules for how we award turn points and these should not be subjectively changed at our discretion with each new situation that arises, just because we think we know what's coming from our experience from watching wrestling.
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| 19 | Mike D
Sustainer
ID: 041831612
Wed, Sep 15, 2004, 20:33
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I'll second that. No rush on Orton, let's be sure-----but don't forget either.
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