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Subject: Scoring and Rules History 1st Draft
Posted by: Mattinglyinthehall
- [217351118] Fri, Sep 17, 2004, 22:08
Look what happens when I stay in on a Friday night :)
Disclaimer - these are MY understanding of the rules as they stand. I did a lot of research and looked for every relevent discussion on every one of these topics. Since there are numerous codes that we stick to that were neer actually voted on, there is obviously still a number of potential issues that different people might have. I think having an official rules bible to refer to and add to as we go can only help. I think we should discuss any problems anyone has with this stuf and possibly add to it as we go and I'll repost a revised version some time in the future after we find some things to hash out.
Match Results1
Singles pinfall win: +30
Singles DQ/count out win: +18
Singles pinfall loss: +15
Singles DQ/count out loss: +10
Tag Team pinfall win: +25
Tag Team DQ/count out win: +16
Tag Team pinfall loss: +12
Tag Team DQ/count out loss: +10
Any no contest +10
Championship Titles
World/WWE Championship win: +50
Intercontinental Championship win +30
United States Title win +30
Tag Team Championship win: +25
Cruiserweight Championship win: +15
Women Championship win: +15
WWE/World/Intercontinental/US Title Defense: +10
Any Other Title Defense: +5
Other
TV Show Main Event Match +10
TV Show in-ring vignette: +52
TV Show run-in/nterference: +53
TV Show backstage interview/vignette: +2 (more than just being there as the camera pans through)4
TV Show heel/face turn: +25 (it must be CLEAR)5
Guest Hosting: +56
Guest Referee +57
PPV Match: +12 (only awarded once per event and in addition to win, loss or no contest points for the match)8
PPV Main Event: +20 (in addition to win, loss or no contest and also PPV match points)9
PPV interview: +5
PPV backstage vignette: +5
PPV in-ring vignette: +10
PPV run-in / interference: +10
PPV heel/face turn: +15
PPV Hosting: +5
Other Rules
*Waiver priority trading is allowed. (Voted in here)
*Draft will snake. (Voted in here)
*Draft order is determined as follows (as laid out in post 45 here):A. using the eligible points of your four keepers, standings are determined. top team is in first, etc etc.
B. add your official finishing position to the number achieved in A.
C. divide that number by two, and the HIGHEST number draft first, and down the line. if there's a tie, it should be determined by standing position. *First place finish (or whatever sucker he trades his draft pick to) always drafts last and gets first waiver priority. Person who drafts last will collect everyone's keeper lists, to keep the choices secret.
*Deadline for setting our weekly rosters:7:00PM est Sunday during weeks with a Sunday PPV (assuming the lead-in show starts at that time).
9:00PM est Monday during weeks when there is no Sunday PPV.
(Voted in here)
Foototes
1. The system is based primarily on the rules that were voted into effect here.
The original format we used can be seen here. That was the finished model which was used for the first 4 weeks of Season 1. It was a revision of this original prototype, generated by mist two days earlier.
The first revisions that were made from the initial, early-Season 1 model were voted into effect here. Most notably among them was awarding positive points rather than negative points for a loss and also included was changing a TV Show WWE/World ttitle win from 75 points to 50.
2. It has been established that a wrestler needs to just come into the ring to get points for being in an in-ring vignette. I can't find a thread where this has been explicitly discussed, but if memory serves it has. As examples, Nathan Jones and Matt Morgan were always awarded vignette points when they came out with Heyman's stable, even though neither of them ever spoke. Similarly, Batista always received in-ring vignette points under similar circumstances when noting else happened.
In some cases when a wrestler (notably Luther Reigns) did not make it to the ring during a vignette, and din't do anything noteworthy from the ramp or outside the ring, he gets no points.
If someone takes the mike, he gets the points as discussed here.
Except for show hosts. A show host must get more involved than simply making an announcement or giving an interview in the ring to earn in-ring vignette points, as discussed in posts 4 - 10 here.
However, if an announcer or show host is attacked outside the ring or mixes it up anywhere in the arena (not backstage) he becomes involved in an interference.
Discussed here in posts 1 - 8 and posts 18 and thereafter.
3. Standards for in-ring interferences are discussed in posts 21 - 33 here.
Also noteworthy is a brief rules question addressed in posts 1 and 8 here about whether helping an opponent or friend back into the ring constitutes an interference.
4. To qualify for backstage vignette points, a wrestler must be one of the subjects of the shot. A quick pan through does not count, unless there is only one person there. Anyone who speaks (unless its a crowd people talking over each other) gets points. Vignettes that are presented as pretaped ("Nunzio and Stamboli from earlier tonight...") do not get points.
Standards were originally voted on here.
Some relevant discussions on the topic:
Posts 2, 3 and 7 - 11 here.
Posts 5 - 19 here.
5. Heel/Face turns were changed from 10 points (as they had stood since the league's inception as written in the original scoring format) to 25 points in a vote that took place here.
The earliest discussion I could find for exactly what constitutes a turn is in posts 0 through 14 here. I believe that discussion accurately reflects the standards we have applied for awarding turn points. Another extensive face/heel turn discussion that might provew useful can be found here.
Also worth noting is that shortly before face/heel turns were changed to 25 points, there was a failed proposal to abolish them.
6.Also, it appears that in Week 1 of Season III, we began awarding in-ring vignette points for guest hosts (not stand-ins for a whole show, just people who sit in at the table with the regular announcers). This is likely a result of the acceptance of the idea that if you take the mike, you get points. This understanding has continued to be applied.
7. We also started warding guest referees 5 points instead of 2 (as were the former rules) during week 1 of Season III. The only discussion I can find on the issue too place in posts 32, 58 - 60
8. Guest referee points were discussed (not voted on) in posts 59 & 60 here. |
| Only the 50 most recent replies are currently shown. Click on this text to display hidden posts as well. |
| 35 | Bond,JamesBond@work
ID: 509391211
Tue, Oct 12, 2004, 13:41
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I'm a little perplexed at how to get a proper vote at any proposal that is being proposed. Are there currently any rules of order that I should be aware of in order to bring any proposal to a league vote? If adopted, when would any passed proposal go in effect?
I'm thinking it might be best to have an official "proposal page" of sorts to bring any league proposal to a proper vote. Or is there a different yet better way to handle this?
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| 36 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 2824911
Tue, Oct 12, 2004, 13:47
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I don't believe we ever established how many votes it takes to change a rule since we pared the league down to 10 teams. I think it is established that only a majority is required to interpret a rule. I believe that when we had 12 teams, it took 8 votes to change a rule, so going by that, 7 votes in our 10 team league would be close.
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| 37 | Bond,JamesBond@work
ID: 509391211
Tue, Oct 12, 2004, 14:01
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7 out of 10 makes sense. Since it's pretty much impossible to get us altogether at the same time, does a proposal have to include all 10 members or can it just pass once we reach 7 that agree to the proposal?
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| 38 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 2824911
Tue, Oct 12, 2004, 14:05
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It passes once we reach 7.
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| 39 | Mike D
Sustainer
ID: 41831612
Tue, Oct 12, 2004, 14:49
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"I think it is established that only a majority is required to interpret a rule."
I always thought that was it....majority. Maybe we should vote on this. ;)
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| 40 | wiggs
Donor
ID: 04991311
Tue, Oct 12, 2004, 14:56
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Species, Tree is trying to get ahold of you for the keeper hoops league. Check the basketball thread or email him when you get a chance.
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| 41 | Bond,JamesBond@work
ID: 329431310
Wed, Oct 13, 2004, 12:48
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Ok guys, which is it? Majority rules or 7 out of 10? In a bit of a irony, I'm with whatever the majority sides with here. LOL
On a side note, I'd still like to know how to officially propose an idea for a league vote. Apparently, the ideas that I've thrown around either haven't been noticed by all parties or there is just not enough interest to pass a judgement on. Any help here would certainly be much appreciated.
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| 42 | Mike D
Sustainer
ID: 41831612
Wed, Oct 13, 2004, 12:51
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Start a new thread regarding the proposal. Outline it, ask for a vote.
And make sure you have obtained the proper permit.
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| 43 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 2824911
Wed, Oct 13, 2004, 12:54
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I'd say lets go with 7 since that seems to make the most sense and nobody raised issue with that number. If anyone has a problem with that then we'll settle that issue first.
Just be as specific as possible. Its a good idea to include the word "proposal" in the title of the thread so that it will be easy to find later.
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| 44 | Bond,JamesBond@work
ID: 329431310
Wed, Oct 13, 2004, 13:09
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Ok.... thanks for help guys. I'm going to start a new thread and hopefully it'll be sufficient. If not, let me know.
For what it's worth, my vote goes to 7 out of 10 also.
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| 45 | Farn
Sustainer
ID: 451044109
Mon, Dec 13, 2004, 14:02
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butt
we should probably add the 24hr rule to this to make it official.
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| 46 | Farn
Sustainer
ID: 451044109
Mon, Jan 24, 2005, 22:25
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butt'ing with a question.....
How will we score the Royal Rumble if its the Main Event? Does each participant get Main Event points? Or only the last few?
HHH indicated it may be the Main Event so we should cover that base before it gets to us.
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| 47 | wiggs
ID: 540421611
Mon, Jan 24, 2005, 23:20
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i believe it was given main event points last year, but i am not positive.
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| 48 | Farn
Sustainer
ID: 451044109
Tue, Jan 25, 2005, 00:06
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last year we did give ME points to everybody entered.
But since then we have had discussion about changing it. Those are located here.
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| 49 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 43021239
Tue, Jan 25, 2005, 06:42
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That discussion was really all about battle royales, not the Rumble, in spite of the title. There was some discussion in last year's Rumble scoring thread about whether the Rumble should be scored as the Main Event. That discussion also took place in part here.
At this point we don't know if the Rumble will be the ME, so if we're going to change that, we should do it now. I think I'm OK with that idea, but we have decide how we will what the actual main event will be, if the Rumble is the last match.
Farn, I think this one is your ball. You're the one who has raised the issue in the past and again now. Lets hope we can get a little discussion on this for a feel for what the league consensus might be and then get a proposal out.
My personal opinion is that the Rumble should not be handled like battle royales, with the last 25% geting ME points and no one else, because unlike a battle royale, everyone is not equal in the Rumble. Guys who enter 2nd and get eliminated with 8 remaining performed much better than someone who entered 24th and got eliminated with 6 remaining. IMO, main event points should go to all or none. After that, I think I tend toward Farn, that the Rumble probably shouldn't be the main event.
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| 50 | Bond, James Bond
ID: 5032423
Wed, Jan 26, 2005, 00:08
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I concur MITH.
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| 51 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 2824911
Wed, Jan 26, 2005, 13:44
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That's it? 3 opinions?
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| 52 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 2824911
Wed, Jan 26, 2005, 14:04
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Great One chimed in via email:i agree NOT everyone should recieve main event points. Last 25% seems about right.
cause seriously - should Scotty 2 Hotty really get extra for being tossed after 2 seconds like he surely will.
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| 53 | Bond,JamesBond@wk.
ID: 280562611
Wed, Jan 26, 2005, 14:10
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Was it ever determined that the Trading Deadline issue is now considered official? And if so, what are the new trading deadline dates? I'm looking to trade Batista et al for the best offers out there but need to know what dates we're looking at. Thanks.
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| 54 | Mattinglyinthehall
Leader
ID: 01629107
Thu, Apr 07, 2005, 19:29
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bump
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| 55 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 25337239
Fri, May 27, 2005, 07:19
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bump
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| 56 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 2824911
Mon, Sep 12, 2005, 13:46
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Bump - remember correct table in post 13.
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| 57 | Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Thu, Oct 13, 2005, 15:26
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Bump for slosh or gunz, whoever will be our new member.
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| 58 | Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Tue, Nov 22, 2005, 13:47
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Bump for myself for scoring purposes.
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| 59 | wiggs
Donor
ID: 04991311
Tue, Nov 22, 2005, 13:51
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Just out of curiousity, why did we decide to have tag team wins count as less then singles?
IT almost makes singles wrestlers alot more valuable then a tag team.
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| 60 | Tree
Sustainer
ID: 599393013
Tue, Nov 22, 2005, 14:08
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you pretty much nailed it there Wiggs. Singles wrestlers, generally speaking, are more valuable than tag team wrestlers.
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| 61 | Mattinglyinthehall
Leader
ID: 01629107
Tue, Nov 22, 2005, 14:12
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why did we decide to have tag team wins count as less then singles?
I included footnotes complete with links for every league rule. You should be able to trace back to every original discussion that led to our scoring format at the time that I put this together.
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| 62 | Mattinglyinthehall
Leader
ID: 01629107
Tue, Nov 22, 2005, 14:44
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Found it - in a thread that isn't linked here. Tree was actually the one who suggested the change to 25 pts for a tag win from 20 points proposed by Mist in his original scoring draft.
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| 63 | wiggs
Donor
ID: 04991311
Tue, Nov 22, 2005, 15:43
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i knew it was accuate. I just didnt know if there was a reason for it.
Basically what made me think about it is
Are Big Show and Kane less valuable at tag team champs then they would be if they just remained singles wrestlers?
Cade and Murdock less valuable then say Mickie james and victoria? Both Ladies are ranked high then the men. While it is true the ladies are much easier to look at, should they be more valuable in the fantasy league?
Just some food for thought.
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| 64 | Farn
Sustainer
ID: 451044109
Tue, Nov 22, 2005, 15:50
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I think tag wrestlers score less because in general they probably do less work and get less reaction from the crowd. They can spend a share of the match on the apron doing nothing. Rarely do tag matches have the same high profile results that singles matches can have. And the crowd tends to see it as a match that isn't as important as a singles match too.
I think the difference in points is a reflection on the way the WWE itself views the wrestlers as well. Tag wrestlers rarely get the same respect as singles wrestlers. An exception may be Kane and Show but I think we are all pretty certain they aren't a longterm combo. More than likely they are setting up a feud for those 2 down the road. But in general tag wrestlers don't garner the same respect as singles wrestlers in the company and the same is probably reflected in our league.
As for the women, I agree, in most cases their matches have far less importance than the tag matches of the guys. But we can't really score them differently because it would be a nightmare to score and making exceptions in scoring rules can't work.
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| 65 | wiggs
Donor
ID: 04991311
Tue, Nov 22, 2005, 16:04
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Farn, I totally agree with everything you said in that post.
My point kind of was to make every win and every loss worth the same amount of points. Then there are no exceptions.
And like I said, I am not arguing this at all. Just wondering if anyone else feels the same about it. There are not alot of tag teams out there right now so it really isnt a huge deal.
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| 66 | Tree
Sustainer
ID: 599393013
Tue, Nov 22, 2005, 16:58
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my feelings on this is that the most important title in a wrestling company is almost always the main singles title, not the main tag titles.
thusly, singles wrestlers have more value.
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| 67 | Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Wed, Jan 04, 2006, 17:27
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BUTT-ing this thread as I don't want it to drop off the main page, and I'm scoring SD! from week 10.
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| 68 | Farn
Sustainer
ID: 451044109
Mon, Feb 20, 2006, 15:00
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bump back to page 1 for those who score while I'm gone
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| 69 | blue hen
ID: 38135621
Tue, Feb 21, 2006, 11:16
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I would say Mickie James is MUCH more valuable than Lance Cade to the WWE right now.
It'll never happen, but you should get points for match length. Or at least for commercial breaks during your match. But who the hell would want to score THAT?
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| 70 | Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Tue, Apr 04, 2006, 16:25
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Bumping up for my own use.
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| 71 | Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Mon, May 01, 2006, 12:02
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Bumping
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| 72 | Species
ID: 295302411
Sun, Jul 16, 2006, 20:33
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Bumpage
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| 73 | wiggs
Donor
ID: 04991311
Fri, Aug 04, 2006, 00:22
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when does this season end?
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| 74 | Great One
ID: 523121411
Fri, Aug 04, 2006, 07:41
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October I believe.
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| 75 | Tree
ID: 1411442914
Fri, Aug 04, 2006, 08:58
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crap. i gotta hold you bozos off for 2 more months?!?!
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| 76 | wiggs
Donor
ID: 04991311
Fri, Aug 04, 2006, 12:13
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oh, I thought we did it after summerslam. I was hoping.
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| 77 | Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Fri, Aug 04, 2006, 12:32
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As posted in Looking Ahead to Season VII thread, our schedule:
Season VII
Backlash 4/30 (Raw)
Judgement Day 5/21 (Smackdown)
ECW One Night Stand 6/11
Vengeance 6/25 (Raw)
Great American Bash 7/23 (Smackdown)
Summerslam 8/27
Unforgiven 9/17 (Raw)
No Mercy 10/8 (Smackdown)
After the Friday (or whatever day it airs) airing of Smackdown on 10/13 the Season is over. We take 2 weeks to redraft and reorganize and Season 8 starts on 10/29. We could move that up a week if need be but this is a safer move. Season 8 would then run through Wrestlemania.
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| 78 | Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Mon, Aug 21, 2006, 18:07
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Pushing this up even higher for our possible new manager to review.
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| 79 | Farn
Leader
ID: 451044109
Thu, Nov 02, 2006, 11:42
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How To Post A Spreadsheet from Excel
Here's how I do it. Could be other ways but I'm slow and stick to this one.
1. Put all your data or whatever into the spreadsheet.
2. Hit Save.
3. Drag your mouse to highlight the section you want to post. Highlight it completely.
4. Click on File. Choose "Save As Webpage".
5. Hit the "Selection:Sheet" button"
6. Save it with any name you want.
7. Open your web browser (Firefox, Explorer)
8. Click File in your web browser.
9. Choose "Open File"
10. Find the file you saved and open it.
11. Right click on that newly opened file in your web browser and choose "view source".
12. At the top of the Windows Notepad that opens click "Edit" and choose "Select All".
13. Hit "Control-Copy" on your keyboard.
14. Close Notepad
15. Go to Rotoguru and find the thread you want to put it in; either a new thread or an existing one.
16. Hit "Control-Paste" on your keyboard in the thread box you post in.
17. Click the "yes" button below the thread box that says "(for HTML table input)".
17. Post it.
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| 80 | Great One
ID: 539581613
Thu, Nov 02, 2006, 13:14
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Thanks Farn - I just tested and I think I was successful. I'll try for next week.
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| 81 | Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Tue, Nov 14, 2006, 17:00
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11. Right click on that newly opened file in your web browser and choose "view source".
12. At the top of the Windows Notepad that opens click "Edit" and choose "Select All".
The default setting for Excel is to "center" the results. I always scroll down in notepad during step 12 and change that to "align=left" instead of the default "align=center." Then I proceed with step 12, and "save" when exiting to save the change. This helps when posting in rotoguru (see GO's recent posting of the scores----it was reeeall wide).
Thanks to all of you for helping with this....
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| 82 | Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Tue, Nov 14, 2006, 17:25
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Thanks Mike D.
BTW Farn - you gave me a jab about missing step 17 in the instructions (hitting the "Ignore Line Feeds" button) - but there are TWO number 17's. Since I was flipping between screens to read the instructions, I skipped the first "17." and went to the last step! lol
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| 83 | wiggs
Donor
ID: 04991311
Sat, Nov 25, 2006, 14:22
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how long do you have to wait for a waive claim? is it 24 hours or 48?
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| 84 | Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Sat, Nov 25, 2006, 20:31
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24
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