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Subject: Poker Part IV
Posted by: ChicagoTRS
- [51828221] Thu, Dec 22, 2005, 18:20
General Poker discussion... |
Only the 50 most recent replies are currently shown. Click on this text to display hidden posts as well.
[Lengthy or complex threads may require a slight delay before updating.] |
| 169 | Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Mon, Feb 13, 2006, 13:42
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Sweet recap R9. No mention of Studio 54 and that great bar next to the MGM poker area though? ;-)
Can't really blame you on the AA hand. As you said, either take it down now or maybe get one idiot caller. What sucks is that the 78s guy probably folds if there weren't 3 other callers already in! One caller? Probably folds and you take it down.
There are many times I walk away frustrated after a night of idiots calling with hands they have no business being in and I'm down for the night.....then I remind myself that over the long haul those people are where I make my money, and sometimes that's just how the cards go....
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| 170 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Mon, Feb 13, 2006, 13:49
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lol! I did check out the club of course. ;) After playing at Caesars and Bellagio though, I'll likely skip MGM the next time I go. MGM is outrageously loud, between the club and the directors talking to each other over their microphones. Someone really needs to buy them a set of walkie-talkies.
I wasn't even upset on the AA hand, although that might've just been because of the jovial nature of the table. I knew I was a dog going in (even though I had the best individual odds) so it wasn't all that surprising, and I was actually happy that I had the best chance at a huge pot. I was just a bit annoyed at the kind of poker being played, as I was looking for a more challenging and interesting game, since I was there for a short time. If I was a regular and was looking to make serious money, the MGM is THE place to be any day after 6-7 PM. The conventions let out and the tourists are done touring for the day, and they all sit down and think free beer is a great idea. ;)
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| 171 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Mon, Feb 13, 2006, 14:02
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Of note, the glass between the bar the poker room was non-seethrough, probably because everyone in the pokerroom would be distracted by the hourly 'dance on top of the bar' they do there. ;)
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| 172 | Farn
Sustainer
ID: 451044109
Mon, Feb 13, 2006, 14:20
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R9, your AA play was fine. probably 9/10 you'd take that pot.
I have to say though that maybe I'm the only one but I'd have folded that 78. Pot odds are good but you know you are way behind at least 1 hand and probably more. I'd have folded and waited for a better day, pot odds or not.
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| 173 | Sludge
ID: 11042612
Mon, Feb 13, 2006, 14:22
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Even in all my online playing I've never seen 3 sets off the flop. Any probability whizzes care to take a shot at the odds of that?
What? Nobody stood up and declared: "This place is a joke. This is so rigged! Now I see why I never play here anymore!" ???
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| 174 | Frick@Work
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Mon, Feb 13, 2006, 16:02
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R9, was everyone else at the table all-in when the big stack made the call? I could see making the play due to pot odds when you won't have to put any more money into the pot.
I probably wouldn't make that 78 call though. You have to figure that you have a least 2 pocket pairs that are higher than 78.
Glad you had a fun time.
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| 175 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Mon, Feb 13, 2006, 21:49
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Frick, yeah the 78s was the last to go all-in, and he took a little while to do it. My quick calculations are that he didn't even have pot odds, but he had to figure that his 7 and 8 were live, as was likely mosts straights combining a 7 and 8. He looked like a gambler who had been having a lucky night (you'd have to at that table) so I wasn't too surprised.
Sludge, I think everyone at the table was too stunned. The 66 and AA guys immediately left the table, and the woman with the JJ didn't look like she would know the probability of flipping a coin. Another one who was just happy to be there, playing that 'game thats on TV'. She also only lost half her stack, which was going up and down faster then a rollercoaster. Definitely didn't know what hit her. I think a few of us realized it was pretty unreal, but the actual odds of that happening seem to be outrageous. Is it less or more likely then flopping a Royal? My instinct is less, but not my area of expertise.
Ironically enough I had a stats test 1 hour after stepping off the plane in Montreal on Sunday, and hadn't slept in 30 hours, so I'm sure the test result will confirm my lack of expertise there. ;)
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| 176 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Tue, Feb 14, 2006, 01:37
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Oh yeah, forgot to mention the coolest part of the trip! I was cruising around Caesars with my dad, and we noticed the tourney room behind the main poker area. We decided to check it out, and took three steps in before almost walking into none other then TJ Cloutier. Beside him is Antonio Esfandari, and Phil Helmuth is on the microphone, going from table to table giving updates. Turns out we walked in on a charity tourney they were all promoting. Mike the mouth Matusow showed up later also. Got a pick of Mike talking with Phil, and my dad even chatted with TJ for a bit while watching one of the tables. Just small talk about how Vegas had grown since he started there, but pretty dang cool nonetheless!
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| 177 | weykool
ID: 60552122
Tue, Feb 14, 2006, 10:16
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R9:
Got knocked out of a tourny @ PP when the flop came 7-A-5.
Needless to say the rockets knocked out my set of 7's and the set of 5's.....but I agree with you it has to be very rare.
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| 178 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 590172314
Wed, Feb 15, 2006, 11:17
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Nice trip report...I think I need to make my way to Vegas soon...
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| 179 | Frick@Work
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Thu, Feb 16, 2006, 09:28
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I was in a tournament last night and the blinds were around 100-200. I call and everyone folds except the blinds who both call. Flop comes up 2J7 rainbow. I have AJ and go all-in. Small blind folds and big blind calls. I was lucky that I had about 1500 more in chips than the big blind otherwise I would have been out of the tournament. Big Blind had 72 os. Turn and River don't help anyone and the big blind doubles up and I lose about 7k in chips. I got very luck on a couple of hands and ended up winning the tournament, but a quick reminder, don't let the BB play for free.
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| 180 | Sludge
ID: 11042612
Thu, Feb 16, 2006, 13:50
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...but a quick reminder, don't let the BB play for free.
I think the more important lesson is never assume or believe that your top pair with top kicker is worth a damn in any limped pot. Also, why the hell are you going all-in off the bat like that? All you're doing is shopping for two-pair or better. At best, you're going to take down the $600 pot, and you already know what the "at worst" is. A $300-$600 bet would have been more than enough to discover if you were beat.
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| 181 | Frick@Work
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Thu, Feb 16, 2006, 14:39
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The table was really loose and I wanted to take down the pot at that point, I didn't want to see any more cards.
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| 182 | beastiemiked
Leader
ID: 03531815
Thu, Feb 16, 2006, 15:01
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Raise 3x preflop. Bet 2/3-3/4 pot on flop. Gross overbets like that are never recommended unless you have the goods and you know a lesser hand will call you. Congrats on winning.
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| 183 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Thu, Feb 16, 2006, 15:45
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If you're ahead with top pair-top kicker you want a caller. If you're behind you want to fold. Going all-in ensures you'll get called when behind and that you'll get no callers when you're ahead.
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| 184 | Davis
ID: 8041210
Fri, Feb 17, 2006, 07:00
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So guys get this, i'm playing a 25 dollar sit and go tourny online at Pacific Poker..
I get AA, medium stack but the blinds are real high for the situation. I go all in after first guy raises it up. Everyone folds but he calls, turns out he also has AA.
Now for the beat? a flush
He gets 4 clubs to beat me...
rotten
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| 185 | The Beezer
Leader
ID: 191202817
Fri, Feb 17, 2006, 07:08
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Has anyone played at vippoker.com? That 100% deposit match up to $750 looks enticing but I don't know anyone that has played there. I'm sure the 2+2 forums have plenty about it but I thought I'd check here first.
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| 186 | Frick@Work
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Fri, Feb 17, 2006, 08:25
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Davis, I had a similar situation last night. I was short stacked and went all-in with A4 suited. The BB called and we flip over. A4c for me A4h for him. 1 heart on the flop and then turn, river hearts to give him a flush.
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| 187 | beastiemiked
Leader
ID: 03531815
Fri, Feb 17, 2006, 09:43
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Anyone playing at party beware of their new update, Party Poker upgrade problems
Because of the latest issues I think I'm going to stay away from Party for awhile. Unfortunately, I have no money in any of my other accounts and want to get started somewhere else asap. Anyone interested in a Party to Stars money transfer swap? I'd transfer you the agreed upon amount(hopefully $300+) on Party and you'd return the favor on Stars. It's a little risky for me since I'd transfer first but I trust most of you all. Email me or post here if interested.
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| 188 | ChicagoTRS
Leader
ID: 566152116
Fri, Feb 17, 2006, 11:56
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Anybody been following any of the Andy Beal vs The Corporation? (Brunsons, Greenstein, Harmon, Forrest, ...)...Beal just took them for 10 million playing headsup limit hold'em.
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| 189 | ChicagoTRS
Leader
ID: 566152116
Fri, Feb 17, 2006, 11:58
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Recommendation...check out the new poker show on GSN (Game Show Network)..."High Stakes Poker" best poker on TV IMO. Cash game no limit holdem with all big name players. So refreshing to see cash poker on TV instead of final table tournament style poker...bet...all-in...race...repeat. Good to see players actually play. On Monday nights...161 on Comcast digital.
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| 190 | tommyd
ID: 46928248
Fri, Feb 17, 2006, 13:17
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Yeah the High Stakes Poker is very interesting. That Sheiky guy was being a real a-hole and getting on everyone's nerves. Nice to see some post-flop play though like you said unlike the tourneys.
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| 191 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Fri, Feb 17, 2006, 18:35
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Davis, had a similar situation as well in the later stages of a tourney. Bout 600 started, down to 150. Moved all-in with a top 1/3 stack, and got called by the #2 overall stack with AKs on a flop of K52, one of my suit. He has AKs as well, with both of us 1 card to our suit on the flop. He turns/rivers the flush to take me out. Ugh...
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| 192 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Fri, Feb 17, 2006, 21:56
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Ah yes, something I wanted to ask you guys who've played live before... what is the strategic point of straddling? The guy to my left did it for every one of my BB's at one table, not that I minded all that much. It just didn't seem to payoff for him very well, and the idea of putting in twice the money as the BB for no good reason, in an early position, seems kindof stupid to me.
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| 193 | Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Sat, Feb 18, 2006, 02:31
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$20 SNG. Heads up. Couldn't help but rub it in a little before I called ;-)
***** Hand History for Game 3573967168 *****
600/1200 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) (Tournament 20264147) - Sat Feb 18 02:27:41 EST 2006
Table Still Going (Real Money) -- Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 2
Seat 7: Sirius68 (14290)
Seat 10: mfflmore (5710)
mfflmore posts small blind (300)
Sirius68 posts big blind (600)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Sirius68 [ 7h, Ks ]
mfflmore raises (900) to 1200
Sirius68 raises (1200) to 1800
mfflmore calls (600)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 2h, Kh, Kd ]
Sirius68 checks.
mfflmore bets (3910)
mfflmore is all-In.
Sirius68: bad time to bluff
Sirius68 calls (3910)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 4s ]
** Dealing River ** : [ Js ]
Creating Main Pot with $11420 with mfflmore
** Summary **
Main Pot: 11420 |
Board: [ 2h Kh Kd 4s Js ]
Sirius68 balance 20000, bet 5710, collected 11420, net +5710 [ 7h Ks ] [ three of a kind, kings -- Ks,Kh,Kd,Js,7h ]
mfflmore balance 0, lost 5710 [ 5s 6d ] [ a pair of kings -- Kh,Kd,Js,6d,5s ]
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| 194 | biliruben
ID: 531202411
Sat, Feb 18, 2006, 11:05
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I would have been a little worried about a flush draw or K better kicker.
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| 195 | Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Sat, Feb 18, 2006, 12:06
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I suppose....but I wasn't impressed with this guy, and I had him covered almost 3 to 1.
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| 196 | Davis
ID: 42735218
Sat, Feb 18, 2006, 22:17
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Guys, I'm just wondering a little something about the referral bonuses on PACIFIC POKER.
I've referred two people now, so i get 100$ deposited to my bank account. How long/many hands do i need to play in order to be able to cash out that money, or what is the deal??
I don't plan on stopping playing, i'm doing well and liking it but i'm just curious.
anyone know, or know where to find out?
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| 197 | rockafellerskank
ID: 180352016
Sat, Feb 18, 2006, 22:25
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bonus details on Pacific
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| 198 | The Dienasty
ID: 132591
Sun, Feb 19, 2006, 01:21
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192
From what ive gathered and learned playing live, straddling serves to beef up the pot, and give the straddler benefit of being last to act on all preflop betting.
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| 199 | Davis
ID: 42735218
Sun, Feb 19, 2006, 08:54
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still not real clear, can anyone make sense of that??
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| 200 | biliruben
ID: 531202411
Sun, Feb 19, 2006, 09:48
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I don't think it confers an advantage, unless perhaps you are an extremely loose aggressive player (and your post-flop play can support that), and would be in your element in with large pot, regardless of what hole cards you have.
General it isn't done to gain an advantage, it's done to make the game more interesting, and perhaps confer an impression of looseness.
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| 201 | Seattle Zen
ID: 3415339
Sun, Feb 19, 2006, 13:07
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Alright, I've jumped in, playing with play money at Party Poker. Let me tell you, it is great, but I'm not sure the lessons I'm learning right now are ones I'm going to want to remember :)
I signed up yesterday and got my initial $1000 play money. I join one of many $5/$10 tables. There are two players with huge stacks - one had $31,000 another $16,000. I'm amazed at what I see, the blinds are so tiny that everyone sticks around to see the flop. I immediately realize that this is nothing like I have been reading about or watch on TV. These people are loath to fold.
I lose my first $1000 fairly quickly, but I see how easy it is to get another, you hit a button. I win a pot or two and quit.
I come back and see that you can create a huge "bank account", but you are only allowed to bring in $2000 when you sit down at a table. In order to get those big stacks, you have to invest some time at an individual table, the first of the "hooks" they try to implant.
I start winning right off. People come and go from this table and I'm soon the big stack. There are a few players who play at the emotional age of 14 and I feed off these guys. They call everything and once in a great while they win a large pot that a bunch of other clowns feed. With the big stack, I wait until I have a great hand and relieve him of his play money and interest in this table.
I am not a gambler in general, biliruben can testify to that, but I was jumping up from my chair and pumping my fist on more than one occasion yesterday. In about two and a half hours, I was up to $28,000. I realize that the halfway decent free players are not wasting their time in these penny-ante games, but you've got to remember, I don't have a feel for this game yet. I've not seen many flops, haven't sat there with my fingers crossed waiting for that fifth suited on the river. One of the drawbacks of having seven or eight people watching the flop is the dreaded 2s over 4s full houses. These are the potential pitfalls that just don't seem to happen in real life.
One thing that struck me was how fast the game goes. You really have to be paying attention to see what the winning hand had. I'm sure most of you are so used to this pace that everything else in life is glacial. I recognize the rush I was getting and I'm going to play some more today, but like computer games, this will be a temporary fad for myself.
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| 202 | Sludge
ID: 14411118
Sun, Feb 19, 2006, 14:19
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With the big stack, I wait until I have a great hand and relieve him of his play money and interest in this table.
You've just stated the winning philosophy in micro-stakes poker. Good on ya. But you don't have to have the big stack to make it work. Once you realize that raising preflop does nothing at these tables, you understand that limping in with decent to premium hands and only getting aggressive when you hit a monster (or, even better yet, let someone else get aggressive that doesn't understand the value of their top pair with deuce kicker) will be a winning strategy in the long-run. I know there are other strategies out there that will net more in the long run, but they will have more variability associated with them. You will take some awful beats and you have to accept that. But I'm not sure that there's a strategy with a lower risk to reward ratio out there.
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| 203 | beastiemiked
Leader
ID: 03531815
Mon, Feb 20, 2006, 09:28
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Species, reraising the minimum with those blinds is pretty bad. Do you expect him to fold a better hand? You are giving him huge odds to call with any 2 against your mediocre K7. Unless the guy was a complete jerk before this hand there's no reason to rub it in his face.
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| 204 | biliruben
ID: 531202411
Tue, Feb 21, 2006, 10:37
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Until this weekend, I'd been having a miserable February. But turned it around and placed 5-4-3-2 in four tourneys I played. Now I just need to find a big tourney to finish the trend!
The tourney ($35 buy-in, pay top 5 - $550 for 1st) I played in last night got completely crazy at the final table. Very very tense, and two big guys started sniping at each other about card protection. Big stack told the small stack to stop showing his cards to the people behind him, that he smelled and to take a bath and then basically called small stack out. Small stack, (who I've played with before - very intense, but very good player), came right back and started telling him he would happily kick his ass, and started pointing his finger right in the guys face, and may have brushed big stack's nose. Big stack, though in cammo gear and a big guy, I think started realizing too late that he might be on the losing end of things in more ways then one if this continued down this road, demanded we stop the game and that the house call the police and file assault charges.
A bit of background before I ask you a question:
This is probably one of the largest, newest and most opulant private casinos in town, with higher stakes games, 3 high-end restaurants, and generally well run, but I think the poker manager really dropped the ball on this one.
How would you have handled that situation, if you were the manager?
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| 205 | Frick@Work
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Tue, Feb 21, 2006, 10:47
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Ideally, they would have both been removed from the table for a few minutes before it had escalated to that point. I don't know if you saw it, but they showed a couple of scenes from the World Series of Poker where players were given 10-15 minute "time outs" for cursing. It gives the player a chance to cool off.
I have not played in a casino, but I would assume that most have policies regarding what is or is not allowed and that sort of behavior, possible violence, is going to lead to other customer's not coming back, which what the casino doesn't want.
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| 206 | Seattle Zen
ID: 3415339
Tue, Feb 21, 2006, 10:49
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Signed them both to contracts and pitched a TV pilot to the inevitable Poker TV 24-hour cable station!
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| 207 | biliruben
ID: 531202411
Tue, Feb 21, 2006, 10:51
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That would have been nice, but it got passed that point quickly.
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| 208 | biliruben
ID: 531202411
Tue, Feb 21, 2006, 10:52
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lol
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| 209 | biliruben
ID: 531202411
Tue, Feb 21, 2006, 10:56
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Zen - would he have any case on assault charges, presuming that the cameras picked up contact?
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| 210 | Seattle Zen
ID: 3415339
Tue, Feb 21, 2006, 10:59
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Unfortuntately, yes. I've represented people who have been charged with assault who merely tossed a brush at someone and it hit them harmlessly in the ass.
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| 211 | Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Tue, Feb 21, 2006, 11:36
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bmd #203 - you know how it goes heads up. Half the time you raise with absolutely nothing to steal the other blind. I made this play often as he would often fold if I came back at him. That was definitely a "play the man, not the cards" kind of raise. So yes, he did fold quite a few times even at a minimum raise.
Heads up action is certainly the loosest I get. As we've all discussed you can't wait for your usual starting hands and you play most every hand depending upon your stack. I was nearly 3-to-1 on this guy so there was hardly a hand I let go.
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| 212 | biliruben
Leader
ID: 589301110
Tue, Feb 21, 2006, 13:15
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Okay, I won't leave you in suspense any longer. ;)
This is how it played out:
The police were called and both parties were escorted away from the table and out to the lobby. At one point if finally dawned on big-stack the implications of his escalation, and he came running back in and starts hollering "you can't penalize me for this!" and pointing at his chips, and is grabbed by two security goons and yanked back out.
What did he think we were going to do, stop the game and wait for him to fill out a police report that someone had tried to pick his nose?
The manager initially does the right thing, I think, and just allows the stacks to remain, and slowly blinds them off. The main beneficiary is the guy to my left (who's a penis, btw, lecturing me on proper pot odds or telling me to go buy a lottery ticket and such whenever I call or raise his shriveled self - which is fine, except he didn't know what the hell he was talking about, giving me lots of information about how to take advantage of him.), who rightly steals the blinds whenever the ghosts are in them and I don't have a hand to do it first.
This goes on until their are 4 people left (and 6 stacks) at the table, and then the manager (who turns out to be new) inexplicably comes over and says "They've left for good" and picks up their stacks. Whuh?!?
He proceeds to pay off 7th place as if he won 5th (who wisely high-tails it out of there, pronto), and 8th place a 6'6' big black dude who's been hanging around, starts howling up a hissing fit, and rightly so.
In middle of this the game continues, I knock out penis with a check-raise push two-pair (that was sweet), new big stack knocks out the other guy, HTH I have my shot at 1st place with a pair of Qs, but he rivers a straight and it's over.
The upshot of this is that I wait around drinking comped Stolis for an hour while they review the tapes and confer, focusing mainly on how the new poker manager's a bonehead, and finally give me my $330 for second so that I can get out of there and walk my dog.
It turns out they refunded the testosterone twins their entry fees, so that some how justified making the horrible decision to liquidate their stacks in the middle of the final table.
How do you think this should this have been handled?
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| 213 | Frick@Work
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Tue, Feb 21, 2006, 13:37
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Continue to let the blinds eat away their stacks.
I was in an on-line tournament the other night and someone finished in the money even though they had been "sitting out" for the last hour.
It would have been a long night if you were left with heads-up against the dead stack, but you could probably knock out the dead stack pretty quickly.
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| 214 | biliruben
Leader
ID: 589301110
Tue, Feb 21, 2006, 13:41
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So then what? Technically, one or the other of the ejected guys won at least 5th, and maybe better.
Do you pay them off? If so, how? They are gone.
Do you redistribute their winnings to the other 3-4 winners?
I dunno the answer to these questions.
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| 215 | Sludge
ID: 11042612
Tue, Feb 21, 2006, 13:43
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How do you think this should this have been handled?
Blind 'em out and let them finish where they finish. I would imagine the casino has some policy regarding their winnings in a situation like this (e.g. they forfeit them). If not, that's pretty short-sighted. If the table agrees to play nice and keep the short stacks alive until the two morons are blinded out, great. If not, too bad for the short stacks. I wonder if the two players, realizing what might happen to their stacks and winnings, didn't try to kiss and make up right then and there but the cops were having none of it.
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| 216 | Frick@Work
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Tue, Feb 21, 2006, 13:56
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I don't know for a fact, but I would be willing to bet that the casino has a policy in place for unclaimed winnings. They probably go to the state's unclaimed property department after they aren't claimed.
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| 217 | biliruben
Leader
ID: 589301110
Tue, Feb 21, 2006, 14:12
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Yeah, I guess that's how it should have played out. It would have been interesting to see whether or not they could have cooled their hatred when, you know, the figured out actual money was at stake. ;)
They have only been hosting this game for about 6 months, and it only recently has gotten popular, as they dropped the entry fee (used to be $105) and it's the only evening tourney in the area.
It's possible that they do not have any set policy in place for unclaimed winnings, but I hope they give some thought to this for the future.
The previous poker manager ran a pretty tight ship, and I'm sure he would have known how to work it out, but perhaps he didn't disseminate the rules very well.
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| 218 | ChicagoTRS
Leader
ID: 566152116
Wed, Feb 22, 2006, 15:48
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Started a new discussion thread...
link
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Post a reply to this message: (But first, how about checking out this sponsor?)
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