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Subject: Might belong in the Gaming and Entertainment forum
Posted by: sarge33rd
- [99331714] Sat, Oct 13, 2007, 14:59
Hannah Montana concerts sold out to brokers within minutes
These brokers, then charge $2,000+ for the $63 tickets to the shows. Obviously, the teenage fans of the Hannah Montana show, are not going to be going to her concerts in any numbers.
Question:
Since the artist gets no money from the inflated ticket prices, but gets paid well by virtue of the show being "sold out", is there ANYTHING, to prevent an artist, once its been determined that brokers bought the tickets, from saying.."Look. No one needs a ticket. Show up, we'll let you in until the place is full. Once its full...its full, and we'll have no choice but to turn people away after that." |
| 1 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 37838313
Sat, Oct 13, 2007, 15:15
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Yes. 1. The artist does not own the venue.
2. The purchase of a ticket is supposed to guarantee admission. How would you like to be one of the few purchasers who wasn't a broker or someone who shelled out the money to a broker only to arrive and find that your ticket isn't valid because the venue is full of people who didn't have to bother with purchasing any tickets?
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| 2 | barilko6
ID: 44829307
Sat, Oct 13, 2007, 15:22
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They could do what they do with World Cup tickets and demand ID when you show up at the door, so they can match it against who bought the ticket.
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| 3 | Tree
ID: 27961311
Sat, Oct 13, 2007, 15:23
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They could do what they do with World Cup tickets and demand ID when you show up at the door, so they can match it against who bought the ticket.
or, states could take charge and create laws to limit the mark up...
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| 4 | barilko6
ID: 44829307
Sat, Oct 13, 2007, 15:25
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I think that there is always a means that would enable scaplers to continue doing what they are doing. I think that its way too hard to police scalping.
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| 5 | sarge33rd
ID: 99331714
Sat, Oct 13, 2007, 16:09
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can't be that hard in this case. On-line brokers bought out entire shows. You see a single purchase request for 10,000 tickets; or multiple requests billing the same name/card 3,000 times...its a safe bet that Mr Doe isnt planning on taking the entire school district to the show.
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| 6 | sarge33rd
ID: 99331714
Sat, Oct 13, 2007, 16:10
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also re 1..the artist not owning the venue...true. But they DO own the rights to the show. Further, the tickets were sold at face value initially, so the venue owner/operator isnt out a dime.
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| 7 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 37838313
Sat, Oct 13, 2007, 16:29
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On-line brokers bought out entire shows.
I really doubt it.
I've never heard of a large venue that will allow a single purchaser to buy 1000 tickets. Usually there's a limit of something like 4 or 6 and sometimes you can apply for special group rates where you'll have to show that you are who you say you are.
But they DO own the rights to the show.
In so far as being able to invalidate all of the tickes that the venue owner sells? No.
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| 8 | sarge33rd
ID: 99331714
Sat, Oct 13, 2007, 16:38
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You may doubt brokers bought all the tickets, but unless the article is an outright lie, it says they did:
Ticket brokers swooped up thousands of tickets within minutes of them becoming available online and shut out legitimate Hannah followers. Desperate fans found they would have to pay brokers $350 to $2,000 for the $63 concert tickets.
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| 9 | sarge33rd
ID: 99331714
Sat, Oct 13, 2007, 16:53
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FTR..I'm trying to play devils advocate here, and see if there isnt someway to "undermine" what these brokers are trying to do. Make it "worthless" for them to continue.
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| 10 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 37838313
Sat, Oct 13, 2007, 16:58
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unless the article is an outright lie, it says they did
No, it doesn't.
"shut out legitimate Hannah followers." doesn't necesarily mean the same as "shut out all legitimate Hannah followers."
I'm trying to play devils advocate here
I know, but you're also unnecesarily exagerating the issue.
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| 11 | sarge33rd
ID: 99331714
Sat, Oct 13, 2007, 17:17
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If $63 tickets are unavailable except through brokers at prices from $350 and up, and they are being succesfully auctioned with opening bids of $2600...then its simple logic that there are no $63 tickets remaining out there. Since none remain, and the article states the brokers swooped in and bought them within minutes, its not an unreasonable leap to belief the brokers bought (if not all, then virtually so) all the tickets.
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| 12 | Perm Dude
ID: 339281310
Sat, Oct 13, 2007, 17:20
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Do you think that people who are paying those high ticket prices are not "legitimate Hannah followers?" Seems to me that someone who is paying $2500 for a ticket is a pretty big follower.
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| 13 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 37838313
Sat, Oct 13, 2007, 17:32
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Sarge
Everyone who got tickets - brokers and attendees alike - collectively swooped in and bought them out in minutes. There's no way to know how many of the tickets went to brokers vs people who plan to attend. When was the last time you went to a concert to see a current popular act? Immediate sellouts are pretty much par for the course when tickets go on sale.
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| 14 | sarge33rd
ID: 99331714
Sat, Oct 13, 2007, 17:35
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I think its a very select few, whose parentage is able to afford to do so.
This particular show, is the kind of thing that as a kid I mowed dozens and dozens of yards, to make the money to go to. Or my daughters babysat, so they could go to.
I'm reminded of a SEMRA race I went to back in May. (South-East Mini-Roadracing-Association) Bunch of 6-12 yr olds for the most part, racing their 80cc bikes on a go-kart track at Virginia National raceway. That same weekend, on the "big track", they happened to be running Ferrarri races. Dealer out of Montreal (with FAR more money than sense) had seen 7 of his Ferrarris wrecked that day and was apparently tired of lisdtening to his kids whine about not being able to rent go-karts and race cause of the bike races. This SOB tried to BUY the track so he could boot those several dozen kids off the track, so his kids could ride go-karts. (The track declined his...from what I hear...ridiculously generous offer.) Anyway, the disappointment those severasl dz kids would have expressed, painful as it owuld have been, has to pale by comparison to the thousands of kids who will not be in those empty (but sold) seats.
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| 15 | sarge33rd
ID: 99331714
Sat, Oct 13, 2007, 17:36
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Re 13..I went to a ZZ Top concert in March. Bought my tickets a week before the show. Prolly a month after they went on sale.
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| 16 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 37838313
Sat, Oct 13, 2007, 17:58
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ZZ Top is not a current major act. Understand that for a venue that won't sell out anyway, brokers won't be able to charge those types premium prices. Generally, if brokers "swoop in" en masse the moment tix go on sale, its because they know the tickets are in high demand and that the fans are doing the same. The concert-going public is more savvy than you're giving them credit for.
The guy who wants badly enough and pay face value for a major act will be there (either online or physically on line) when they go on sale. And if he can't be there at that time then the date will soon be sold out, whether brokers are buying tickets or not. As many brokers as there are out there buying these tickets, there are an awful lot more attendees. Otherwise the brokers wouldn't be able to make any money in the first place.
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| 17 | Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Sat, Oct 13, 2007, 19:12
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Tickets went on sale for Van Halen in Seattle a couple weeks ago.
They sold out in 3 minutes, and the birthday present to myself remains unpurchased. I refuse to pay $115 - $1269 (current stubhub prices) for a band I saw in 1984 for $25.
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| 18 | Slowhand
SuperDude
ID: 056744223
Sat, Oct 13, 2007, 20:38
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People pay MONEY to see her????
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| 19 | Perm Dude
ID: 339281310
Sat, Oct 13, 2007, 21:39
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Yeah. Ain't capitalism great?
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| 20 | Frick
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Mon, Oct 15, 2007, 14:44
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I heard an interesting comment on the brokers the other day. Apparently some of the larger brokers now use multiple computers that are programmed to buy as many tickets as possible for the show. They also use programs that attempt to block access to other users to give themselves more time to buy the tickets in the 4-6 ticket blocks.
Ticketmaster doesn't mind because they are getting their money regardless, the venue doesn't mind because they are getting their money. The artist usually doesn't care because they are getting paid, but it can cause some PR backlash for them.
If sites are going to have exclusive deals with Ticketmaster, wouldn't it be a fairly easy idea for an artist with a hot show to require that the purchasers name be printed on the ticket? Then require ID be shown at the door that matches the ticket?
It shouldn't be that difficult to make that a idea a timed limit. Say tickets purchased within the first 24 hours have that requirement, but any ticket purchased after that would say something more like "General Admission" in place of the name.
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| 21 | biliruben
ID: 579411512
Mon, Oct 15, 2007, 15:15
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I'm at the point where I simply refuse to go to big shows.
I couldn't even get a couple of tickets for David Sedaris for under 3-hundy. F-it.
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| 22 | walk
Dude
ID: 32928238
Mon, Oct 15, 2007, 15:21
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I go to shows all the time. Just saw Queens of the Stoneage for $50. I've paid big bucks (Rolling Stones), but usually have only paid face value by just fast and in the know about when tix go on sale (some email lists are good to subscribe to). And, I'm in NYC where the competition is tough and % of tix reserved for VIP is high. It's still doable.
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| 23 | JeffG
Leader
ID: 01584348
Mon, Oct 15, 2007, 15:55
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I've always been able to get Ticketmaster tickets and large demand events in the NY area (I got Springsteen, Bon Jovi, and Yankees ALCS tickets via ticketmaster in the last 2 months). Maybe there is some luck involved, who knows.
However, I couldn't get any Hannah Montana tickets when they went on sale (I have an 8 year old daughter and it would have made an awesome Christmas present). The NY and NJ area appearances apparently sold out in 'less than 4 minutes' when the public sale began. From what I hear, there was a pre-sale among 'Official Hannah Montana Fan Club members' ($39.95 per year - my daughter is not a member) and many venues did not even have alot of tickets left for the non-member fan.
I had read that many of the ticket brokers and ticket speculators bought multiple memberships just to get their hands on many of these pre-sale tickets, because of the expected market value once the event sells out. I'm sure these brokers are also a step or two ahead of the public as well in terms of getting their hands on tickets. I wouldn't be surprised if there were shady deals in place with venues or other sources to get these tickets straight to the secondary market so they all can profit.
So even though Disney and the promoters kept the face-price of the ticket manageble for this family friendly event, the demand is so high so the market value is quite inflated.
Now the Hannah audience is possibly more pre-teen than teen. The people trying to get tickets for these events are the parents to go with their kids, which makes the $300 broker prices even more outragous.
In NY, ticket brokers just became legal in the last 2 year, beforehand there was only a small allowable markup for tickets, now it is market value (as long as you claim it and pay taxes on the cap gain). I know that this new legislation and the ease of Internet commerce has practically eliminated the term 'sell out' since the public can safely buy tickets to any sold-out event they want, but in reality, I do not know if it was better in the old days when you either could get the tickets from the venue and the scalpers were rolling the dice with getting arrested if they tried to re-sell.
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| 24 | rockafellerskank
Dude
ID: 27652109
Mon, Oct 15, 2007, 18:24
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Judge backs Ticketmaster in scalper case
Collins cited reports of complaints by fans, including many parents who were priced out of getting tickets for Disney Channel's Hannah Montana concert tour.
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