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Subject: Rockin' and rollin' in LA Posted by: biliruben - [52561217] Tue, Jul 29, 2008, 15:07 5.8 Earthquake. Anybody feel it? | |||||||
| 1 | blue hen ID: 30311814 Tue, Jul 29, 2008, 15:14 | People in San Diego and Los Angeles apparently. They say 5.8 is "moderate" so that's good. Do you remember what the Seattle one was? That's the only one I've ever experienced. | ||||||
| 2 | Tree ID: 3533298 Tue, Jul 29, 2008, 15:34 | the girl i'm kind of dating works in Beverly Hills, and said it wasn't a huge deal. said she already got an email from her kid's school, and the kids barely noticed... | ||||||
| 3 | biliruben ID: 52561217 Tue, Jul 29, 2008, 15:37 |
6.8. Was thinking Ref and Razor and CC? | ||||||
| 4 | bibA ID: 146452817 Tue, Jul 29, 2008, 15:37 |
I live in Long Beach, maybe 40 miles from the epicenter, and it was as big as any I have experienced. Didn't "roll" like others have, where you lose a foot of water from the pool, but it did shake fairly violently and knock over pictures and books from my bookcases. Talked with neighbors, and we all agree that our dogs did not give off any hints prior to the quake. Once it began (and it lasted a good 15 seconds or so), the dogs had mild panic attacks.....but so did we! | ||||||
| 5 | biliruben ID: 52561217 Tue, Jul 29, 2008, 15:38 | Glad to hear it wasn't too bad, biba. Didn't know you were in socal. Dodger fan? | ||||||
| 6 | bibA ID: 146452817 Tue, Jul 29, 2008, 16:02 |
Had been a Dodger fan all of my life. Things just aren't the same since Peter O'Malley sold them. Coupled with the priorities involved with fantasy leagues, I don't have near the same passion for the Dodgers. | ||||||
| 7 | Razor ID: 545172413 Tue, Jul 29, 2008, 16:09 | Man, I haven't been to LA in 6 years. I am an East Coast Dodger fan. | ||||||
| 8 | biliruben ID: 52561217 Tue, Jul 29, 2008, 17:29 | That's right. Atlanta, right? | ||||||
| 9 | Boxman ID: 571114225 Tue, Jul 29, 2008, 18:02 |
That earthquake is sooooo dead. It messed with the Governator.
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| 10 | azdbacker ID: 6653018 Wed, Jul 30, 2008, 19:09 |
Meanwhile, while the town was "rockin' and rollin," the LA City Communists, er, Council, was busy taking away its citizens rights. Communism Alive and Well in Los Angeles | ||||||
| 11 | Razor ID: 42663019 Wed, Jul 30, 2008, 20:08 | This is communist how? | ||||||
| 12 | azdbacker ID: 6653018 Wed, Jul 30, 2008, 20:14 |
Controlling who and who cannot sell to the people? How is it not? Government thinking it knows what people should eat better than the people, and that it has the right to tell them how to eat, and that it has the right to prevent certain people providing a legal product? No capitalist would ever conceive of an idea like this. Very few socialists would. It is closer to communist that anything else. | ||||||
| 13 | Razor ID: 42663019 Wed, Jul 30, 2008, 20:36 |
I think it was specious logic to conclude that because this neighborhood in LA has higher obesity rates than the rest of the city that fast food was the problem. I hope they put a little more statistical analysis to this issue before jumping to that conclusion. However, one of the functions of a city council is to zone as they see fit. This is an essential function of the city council and helps make a city a city rather than just an organized mess of residences and businesses. They can zone to prevent strip clubs or bars or any business from setting up shop in a particular area. That the LA City Council used this power to prevent more businesses from a certain sector from opening in a particular area does not strike a chord with me. And it certainly isn't "communist." This is national news not because the city council overstepped its authority, but because they used it in a way to attempt to combat a problem that is a hot button in this country. Frankly, a city council, even in a city the size of Los Angeles, is not exactly Big Brother. Let the people govern themselves. If they don't like the policy, they can bring it up at the next City Council meeting. | ||||||
| 14 | azdbacker ID: 6653018 Wed, Jul 30, 2008, 21:39 |
That's exactly what it is. The City Council stepped in to play Big Brother over the people, who quite clearly support fast food establishments based on everything I've read. To compare fast food restaurants with bars and strip clubs is somewhat specious as well. As we all know, bars and strip clubs are much more fun than McDonald's restaurants. :) | ||||||
| 15 | Pancho Villa ID: 495272016 Wed, Jul 30, 2008, 21:41 |
Controlling who and who cannot sell to the people? I'm with azdbacker on this one. The government has no right to contril this. Additionally, the government has no right controlling marijuana, cocaine, peyote or even controlling drugs through pharmacies. I say let Tyrone have all the Big Macs he wants and Rush all the oxycodone he wants. | ||||||
| 16 | azdbacker ID: 6653018 Wed, Jul 30, 2008, 21:52 | I agree with Pancho on most of that, and the older I get the closer I get to agreeing with him on all of it. | ||||||
| 17 | Perm Dude ID: 27639309 Wed, Jul 30, 2008, 21:58 | The town obviously can use zoning to encourage certain areas economically, but I think it is worth noting that sit down resturants aren't in the areas in question. | ||||||
| 18 | Weykool Leader ID: 41750315 Wed, Jul 30, 2008, 23:59 |
I was working about 30 miles from the epicenter. Lasted about 20 seconds....felt like 5 mins. Was right up there with the strongest ones I have ever felt. | ||||||
| 19 | Razor ID: 545172413 Thu, Jul 31, 2008, 09:46 | It is the citizens' choice what they want and don't want in their neighborhoods. And once again, the city council is not controlling what people eat. They are controlling what new businesses are allowed to be established in the area, an area that is already reportedly flooded with fast food establishments. I already objected to the questionable logic behind the decision, but I have no problem whatsoever with the restriction on new fast food establishments. Why should I care? If and when my neighborhood in Atlanta bans a business that I want in the area, then I'll care and voice my opinion. Or I'll move. | ||||||
| 20 | bibA ID: 146452817 Thu, Jul 31, 2008, 11:49 |
Ojai does not allow fast food franchises. Some small cities ban or discourage red lights. The state makes laws requiring seat belt usage and mandatory helmets for motor cycle riders. That's what elected officials do....make laws regarding what they believe the electors want or need. Does this make them COMMUNISTS? LOL | ||||||
| 21 | Pancho Villa ID: 495272016 Thu, Jul 31, 2008, 11:55 |
>Ojai does not allow fast food franchises.< Yes, but we're not talking about Los Angeles blocking fast food outlets. We're talking about a small section of the city which is predominately black. Wonder what the reaction would be if the council banned fast food Mexican in East LA. | ||||||
| 22 | bibA ID: 146452817 Thu, Jul 31, 2008, 11:59 |
Wonder what the reaction would be if the council banned fast food Mexican in East LA. Unlike what would happen in a Communist nation, the city council would undoubtedly be voted out of office. | ||||||
| 23 | weykool ID: 2842717 Thu, Jul 31, 2008, 12:49 |
Ojai does not allow fast food franchises. Some small cities ban or discourage red lights. The state makes laws requiring seat belt usage and mandatory helmets for motor cycle riders. That's what elected officials do....make laws regarding what they believe the electors want or need. Does this make them COMMUNISTS? In a word....YES. Citing one communistic law to justify another communistic law does not further your argument. The people who pass these laws could give a rats ass about your safety. They have one concern....getting enough money in the city/state retirement funds so they can retire with a fat pension...a blueprint copied from other communistic governements. Freedom means people are given the choice to make bad decisons for themselves. Laws to protect other people from your bad decisions are one thing, but we cant legislate intellegence...especially when the people who are doing the legislating have done nothing to prove their own intellegence. | ||||||
| 24 | Perm Dude ID: 156503111 Thu, Jul 31, 2008, 13:08 |
The problem with this LA decision is its reach (i.e., how far they've gone), not necessarily whether they can do it or not in the first place. I'm on the Planning Commission of my town, and these balancing questions come up literally every meeting: How far should a municipality go in enforcing what are often conflicting directives from the citizens of the town? A few months ago, the Borough here was considering having inspections required (and paid for) by businesses who repave their parking lots. We've had some problems with businesses having half-assed work done on their lots, which reflect poorly on the town and can be a safety hazard to residents and visitors. The Borough Council decided to require an inspection to ensure work is done right. I strongly disagreed at the time, that there is a big brotherish limit that is being crossed when the municipality starts trying to regulate maintainence issues on private property. Not only does this draw the Borough into a liability issue, but really what is next? Mandating no heavy items on high shelves? Properly inflated tire inspections? LA crossed the "should not" line here, because they are doing it for unfounded "health" reasons and they are limiting their decision to only a portion of their municipality. This decision will probably be knocked down fairly quickly for either of those reasons. | ||||||
| 25 | bibA ID: 146452817 Thu, Jul 31, 2008, 13:16 |
So Weykool - are you saying that when elected officials in the US make what the majority of the electorate believe are bad laws, that they can't be voted out? That these bad laws are being forced onto its unwilling citizens? If this were true, then I could at least see where this comparrison to Communism has some validity. | ||||||
| 26 | weykool ID: 2842717 Thu, Jul 31, 2008, 13:51 |
Biba: What I am saying is that people who denounce communism but embrace all of it's ideals are no less of a communist than the people of China or North Korea. The fact that people of this country support communist laws doesnt make the laws any less communistic. | ||||||
| 27 | Perm Dude ID: 156503111 Thu, Jul 31, 2008, 14:10 | I have no idea how you believe zoning and subdivision/land ordinance laws to be "communistic." Perhaps you believe, erroneously, that people should be free to do with their property whatever they want, even if it affects their neighbors? | ||||||
| 28 | biliruben ID: 52561217 Thu, Jul 31, 2008, 14:12 |
What makes a law communist? Communism is a socioeconomic system, not a legal system where the poeple own the means of production, so I would think laws like imminent domain would be communist. I don't construe regulations to equal takings. | ||||||
| 29 | Razor ID: 545172413 Thu, Jul 31, 2008, 14:26 |
LA crossed the "should not" line here, because they are doing it for unfounded "health" reasons and they are limiting their decision to only a portion of their municipality. Why shouldn't they be allowed to target one part of the municipality? That's what zoning is. The right to eat fast food from a new restaurant and the right to open a business wherever you want are not inalieable rights. I don't see why any non-Los Angeleans should complain about what they do with their city as long as it is just and constitutional. This is their decision, and they passed it unanimously. Heck, there is probably a ban in my neighborhood seeing as there aren't any drive thrus in a 2 mile radius around me. If so, I am pleased. | ||||||
| 30 | Razor ID: 545172413 Thu, Jul 31, 2008, 14:28 | I thought we moved beyond the discussion of whether this is "communist." It's not. That's just a term right-wingers sling around when they don't like something. | ||||||
| 31 | Perm Dude ID: 156503111 Thu, Jul 31, 2008, 14:41 |
Why shouldn't they be allowed to target one part of the municipality? That's what zoning is. Zoning makes allowances for certain businesses to operate in zones of the town (hence, the name zoning!). Say you've got a commercial C-1 zone which allows warehouse stores. A town can't say "your warehouse store is allowed in this C-1 zone, but not those other C-1 zones." The application of the zoning laws have to be done with an even hand across similar zones. | ||||||
| 32 | weykool ID: 2842717 Thu, Jul 31, 2008, 16:16 |
Communism is a socioeconomic system, not a legal system where the poeple own the means of production, so I would think laws like imminent domain would be communist. From a text book viewpoint you are correct but from a practical standpoint you are incorrect. There will never be a true communist country. Once a small group of people gain enough power to control an economy they will not be content to stop there. They will take control of all aspects of people's lives and pass seatbelt, helmet, and no fast food laws. In most cases they work it in reverse...they pass laws to control your life and then they seize control of the economy. | ||||||
| 33 | biliruben ID: 52561217 Thu, Jul 31, 2008, 16:39 |
So you are complaining about an existing oligarchy in LA? Well, why didn't you say so! You just confused me with the whole communism thing. | ||||||
| 34 | bibA ID: 146452817 Thu, Jul 31, 2008, 17:39 |
And, if you are saying that they somehow control the elections, heretofore believed free, you have made another valid point. | ||||||
| 35 | azdbacker ID: 36573118 Thu, Jul 31, 2008, 20:00 | Good discussion. Ditto everything weykool said while I was gone. | ||||||
| 36 | Boldwin ID: 522221114 Sun, Aug 03, 2008, 02:48 |
I really don't know what to make of PD being on a government planning committee and voting against big government expansion. Should I be horrified at the prospect or beaming at the one example of good thinking? | ||||||
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