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Subject: Deflation: We are turning Japanese, turning Jap... Posted by: biliruben - [34820210] Wed, Oct 13, 2010, 09:53 WSJ: Bernanke confronts his words from a decade ago. remember once making a comment in a Federal Open Market Committee meeting that this seemed easier when I was advising other people how to do it than when I was involved in doing it myself," says Donald Kohn, who retired from his post as Fed vice chairman last month. The comment, he recalls, was met with nervous laughter by other officials. Personally, I think many of these measures like QE are like pushing on a string. Until you get the demand, by just going out and hiring companies to do work so they can start hiring employees, you aren't going to see fantastic gains. We need a big jobs bill so people have jobs and money to spend. There is incredible amount of work we need to do that is essential for our public good and future growth of our economy, but no private company has any motive to initiate. A few off the the top of my head. Hire companies to start replacing our decaying infrastructure. - Rebuild the power grid that is showing it's limitations in having the capability to efficiently absorb all energy from alternative sources. - Support local municipalities, so we don't see see massive layoffs of teachers, firefighters and police officers. - Invest in transit. Many of our cities are woefully behind in this. The poor and middle class spend an incredible amount of their salaries in auto purchases, maintenance and gas that many would love to give up if they had options. Help them spend it on things other than Saudi palaces. - Invest in crumbling bridges and highways. Not my first choice, but needed. - Provide grants for municipalities to hire companies to rebuild, upgrade and replace their crumbling sewer, water and utility infrastructure. We need to get America working again. We can jump start our economy and growth and prosperity will follow. | |||||||
| 1 | boikin ID: 532592112 Wed, Oct 13, 2010, 11:11 |
- Invest in transit. Many of our cities are woefully behind in this. The poor and middle class spend an incredible amount of their salaries in auto purchases, maintenance and gas that many would love to give up if they had options. Help them spend it on things other than Saudi palaces. - Invest in crumbling bridges and highways. Not my first choice, but needed. - Provide grants for municipalities to hire companies to rebuild, upgrade and replace their crumbling sewer, water and utility infrastructure. It is kind of interesting that all of these infrastructure problems are all magnified by urban sprawl and people wanting to have big houses and big yards. I wonder why no one ever comes out and says if you want to save the earth build smaller houses? build houses closer together. Even if you have to drive everywhere you consume much less gas when your average drive is 5 minutes instead of 10 and your commute is 10 instead of 30+ minutes. | ||||||
| 2 | biliruben ID: 358252515 Wed, Oct 13, 2010, 11:28 |
It seems like it's all we talk about here in seattle. The new urbanists have gained a foothold with our new green, bike riding portly mayor. Unfortunatly, opponents, including our only surviving daily, have reframed the issue as "the war on cars." | ||||||
| 3 | Tree, not at home ID: 18342816 Wed, Oct 13, 2010, 12:43 |
Unfortunatly, opponents, including our only surviving daily, have reframed the issue as "the war on cars." same thing here in Fort Worth!!!! we were given a $25 million grant for street cars. our city council - with plenty of editorial backing from our Daily - are considering NOT taking the money, because, in their opinion, there are more pressing needs and projects - never mind the fact that $25 million is specifically for a street car project, and can't be used for anything else. | ||||||
| 4 | The Left Behind ID: 66232012 Wed, Oct 13, 2010, 13:16 |
I think many of these measures like QE are like pushing on a string. QE, inflating the money supply, is taxing everybody by inflating commodity prices. Because of the punitive stance of the Obama Administration towards business it does not matter if a company has 1 billion or 2 billion on their balance sheet. They will sit on it until a better deal comes along. We need a big jobs bill so people have jobs and money to spend. So you want to take borrowed Chinese money, give it to the Treasury who then gives it to the federal government who then gives it to a conglomerate of states and companies who then in turn give it people after keeping some of course for a profit. Yes that is the model of efficiency. Much more efficient than lowering tax rates and letting the free market decide what needs to be done so they can hire people. What do these workers do once they finished the bridge or the power plant? Walk into the backyard and pick a job off the job tree. We need to get America working again. And make-work does not make-that happen. Obama has already shown he cannot design stimulus. He had 800 billion and he threw it at the wall. Too bad nothing stuck. | ||||||
| 5 | biliruben ID: 358252515 Wed, Oct 13, 2010, 14:46 |
I'm trying to think of any private entity that would think it would be profitable to engage in any of the essential works I listed. Maybe your idea of the profit motive is far different from the one I'm thinking of, but if you know of a company willing to build a sewage treatment plant without getting paid by that evil guv'mint, let me know. | ||||||
| 6 | Frick ID: 42825248 Wed, Oct 13, 2010, 15:42 |
I'm not sure if they have ever built a sewage treatment plant, but they manage plenty of them. Veolia Now, they are paid by the local government, as I don't see how a private company could obtain the rights and require homeowners to use their service. | ||||||
| 7 | boikin ID: 532592112 Wed, Oct 13, 2010, 15:51 |
but if you know of a company willing to build a sewage treatment plant without getting paid by that evil guv'mint, let me know i think a better question would be what company would be willing to fix a road with out the government paying? | ||||||
| 8 | biliruben ID: 358252515 Wed, Oct 13, 2010, 16:12 | Yeah, the were called company towns. They were really nice. | ||||||
| 9 | Frick ID: 42825248 Wed, Oct 13, 2010, 16:28 |
- Rebuild the power grid that is showing it's limitations in having the capability to efficiently absorb all energy from alternative sources. Who is going to rebuild the power grid? I believe that most grids are owned by private companies. What limitations does the existing grid have in "absorbing" energy? The power grid can't store electricity in any meaningful way. By alternative sources do you mean homeowners selling electricity back? If so, the majority of electricity that is being sold is during non-peak hours. - Support local municipalities, so we don't see see massive layoffs of teachers, firefighters and police officers. I have mixed feelings on this. I agree that supporting municipalities is good. But, should municipalities that over spent and started to offer more and more services be supported by those that were more fiscally conservative? - Invest in transit. Many of our cities are woefully behind in this. The poor and middle class spend an incredible amount of their salaries in auto purchases, maintenance and gas that many would love to give up if they had options. Help them spend it on things other than Saudi palaces. My first thought is that I agree. But, how many cities that have decent public transportation systems lose money on them now? I don't disagree that public transportation would be useful to many, but does it make sense to spend billions now, so that millions more can be spent annually to keep the operations running? - Invest in crumbling bridges and highways. Not my first choice, but needed. I agree, wasn't a portion of the original stimulus dedicated to this? Have those projects started yet? - Provide grants for municipalities to hire companies to rebuild, upgrade and replace their crumbling sewer, water and utility infrastructure. Again, why should cities that have been diligent and proactive watch as other cities are rewarded for being cheap and lazy essentially? | ||||||
| 10 | Frick ID: 42825248 Wed, Oct 13, 2010, 16:31 |
Re: 8 I didn't realize Indianapolis, IN, Oklahoma City, OK, not to mention New Orleans were company towns. Re: 7 I was stuck in traffic yesterday due to a private company repaving a road. Granted, it was a toll road that was being leased from the state for the next few decades, but they have been doing a much better job of improving the road then when the state was in charge. | ||||||
| 11 | The Left Behind ID: 66232012 Thu, Oct 14x, 2010, 13:04 |
I'm trying to think of any private entity that would think it would be profitable to engage in any of the essential works I listed. What does that have to do with anything? The sewage system could also be funded by an increase in tax revenue caused by increased economic activity. I am well aware that Democrats since the 1990s have not been familiar with the term "increased economic activity" but that is when GDP (or gross domestic product) is a higher number today than it was yesterday. But no, you want make-work. | ||||||
| 12 | DWetzel ID: 278201415 Thu, Oct 14x, 2010, 14:48 |
I am well aware that Democrats have not been familiar with the term "increased economic activity" since Republicans ran the economy into the ground and made everyone forget that was possible. FYP | ||||||
| 13 | boikin ID: 532592112 Thu, Oct 14x, 2010, 15:26 | the country would be better served if the country realized that both the Democrats and the Republicans have no idea(or even can they)increase economic activity. | ||||||
| 14 | DWetzel ID: 278201415 Thu, Oct 14x, 2010, 15:54 | Meeeeh... I actually see what you are attempting to say and agree with it to some extent -- but conversely then, anything they do shouldn't be able to decrease activity either (since you say they can't increase it), right? | ||||||
| 15 | biliruben ID: 34820210 Wed, Oct 20, 2010, 09:35 |
Sorry to ignore all the me-first anti-patriotic selfishness when our country is going down the tubes. It leaves me speechless when I read "Again, why should cities that have been diligent and proactive watch as other cities are rewarded for being cheap and lazy essentially? " It probably deserves a reply, but all I can think of is to go on a long diatribe about how we are a nation. If we start splitting into tribes, and complaining about minor inequities real or perceived, we are pretty well screwed. A more relevant graph A more relavent graph 
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| 16 | biliruben ID: 34435239 Wed, Oct 20, 2010, 09:53 |
You can read how much fun Japan is having nowThe classic explanation of the evils of deflation is that it makes individuals and businesses less willing to use money, because the rational way to act when prices are falling is to hold onto cash, which gains in value. But in Japan, nearly a generation of deflation has had a much deeper effect, subconsciously coloring how the Japanese view the world. It has bred a deep pessimism about the future and a fear of taking risks that make people instinctively reluctant to spend or invest, driving down demand � and prices � even further. I am not a particularly excessive consumer, but if you are looking to grow GDP and create jobs, people have to buy stuff. Deflation makes folks think it is stupid to spend or invest. | ||||||
| 17 | boikin ID: 532592112 Wed, Oct 20, 2010, 10:07 |
Deflation makes folks think it is stupid to spend or invest. spend yes, invest maybe not | ||||||
| 18 | The Left Behind ID: 66232012 Wed, Oct 20, 2010, 12:50 |
It leaves me speechless when I read "Again, why should cities that have been diligent and proactive watch as other cities are rewarded for being cheap and lazy essentially? " It probably deserves a reply, but all I can think of is to go on a long diatribe about how we are a nation. Does this also leave you speechless at the personal level? | ||||||
| 19 | biliruben ID: 358252515 Wed, Oct 20, 2010, 13:13 |
No, just the impersonal level. I smell a stern lecture on the importance of a prudent household budget coming on. If so, the "nation as a household" analogy is shit. | ||||||
| 20 | The Left Behind ID: 66232012 Wed, Oct 20, 2010, 13:18 |
No, just the impersonal level. Why? If so, the "nation as a household" analogy is shit. Coincidentally, the nation's financial circumstances are the same way. | ||||||
| 21 | biliruben ID: 358252515 Wed, Oct 20, 2010, 13:35 |
It was a joke. Get to your point and stop talking in crypto-speak. | ||||||
| 22 | The Left Behind ID: 66232012 Thu, Oct 21, 2010, 13:28 | If I don't know where you really stand with things how do you expect me to respond? | ||||||
| 23 | biliruben ID: 358252515 Thu, Oct 21, 2010, 15:12 |
Things? I made the joke because your post read as vague nonsense. | ||||||
| 24 | biliruben ID: 34820210 Sun, Oct 31, 2010, 09:30 |
It shouldn't be necessary to post this but, given some of the comments, some people clearly need a reminder. We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. | ||||||
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