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0 Subject: The Cloward-Piven Strategy

Posted by: Boldwin
- [133532810] Fri, Jun 05, 2009, 18:08

Democrats have been deliberately destroying America.
Cloward and Piven were two Columbia University sociologists who, in the mid 1960s, proposed a plan to bankrupt the welfare system by overloading it with more applicants than the system could handle, which its enactors hoped would result in economic collapse, and eventually transform the U.S. into a socialist system. Organizations such as the National Welfare Rights Organization adapted this strategy, and its adoption caused the welfare crisis that bankrupted New York City in 1975.

Majka particularly uses Cloward and Piven’s writings on voting in his course, and has as a required text Why Americans Still Don’t Vote, and Why Politicians Want It That Way. In the early 1980s, practitioners of the Cloward-Piven strategy formed the “voting rights movement.” The movement was lead by such groups as Project Vote, ACORN, and Human SERVE, the latter of which was founded by Cloward and Piven. These organizations lobbied for the Motor-Voter law, which Bill Clinton signed in 1993, and which is today blamed for inundating the system with invalid registrations and opening the door to the extraordinary levels of voter fraud in recent elections. Just as they flooded the welfare system in the 1960s and 70s, Cloward and Piven now hope to overwhelm the U.S. electoral system, with the same intention of overburdening to the point of collapse.
Deliberately destroying America. We're in the endgame now.
The root causes for the 2008 financial panic were sown some 40 years ago when the Institute for Policy Studies, the notorious "Think Tank of the Left," held socialist seminars geared toward undermining the American capitalist system. Beginning in 1964 and continuing to the present day, the Institute for Policy Studies has used seminars especially scoped to influence congressmen and their assistants to support the "progressive," that is to say "socialist," viewpoint. A 1969 "Housing and Property" seminar, hosted by the Institute for Policy Studies, for example, treated Capitol Hill denizens to mind-stretching leftism. Bringing together speakers from big-city tenants councils, neighborhood legal services, FHA insurance, savings-and-loans entities, and the Shannon and Luchs Realty Company, the Institute for Policy Studies "plinked" the first domino that led to the current crisis.

At about the same time that the Institute for Policy Studies was holding the 1969 "Housing and Property" seminars, it was also conducting "Experimental Education" seminars in January-April 1969, for federal legislators and their aides that included Bill Ayers, an Obama confidant and Weatherman terrorist, as a guest speaker. According to the Senate Subcommittee on Investigation, 4,330 bombings occurred in the United States, about nine a day, from January 1969 to April 1970.

The socialist test case for using society's poor and disadvantaged people as sacrificial "shock troops," in accordance with the Cloward-Piven strategy, was demonstrated in 1975, when new prospective welfare recipients flooded New York City with payment demands, bankrupting the government. As a consequence, New York state also teetered on the edge of financial collapse when the federal government stepped in with a bailout rescue.

The 2008 financial crisis has all of the earmarks of a Cloward-Piven strategy assault against the capitalist system. Stanley Kurtz of the Ethics and Public Policy Center recently explained that "community organizers" (1) "intimidate banks into making high risk loans to customers with poor credit," (2) "occupy private offices, chant inside bank lobbies, and confront executives at their homes," and, through these thuggish tactics, (3) compel "financial institutions to direct hundreds of millions dollars in mortgages to low-credit customers." "In other words," Mr. Kurtz explained during a presentation at the Hudson Institute's Bradley Center for Philanthropy and Civic Renewal, "community organizers help to undermine America's economy by pushing the banking system into a sink-hole of bad loans."

A key element of the contemporary crisis certainly reflects many years of a "backward economic philosophy and culture of corruption" cited by the Obama camp. But much of the associated backwardness and deception were secretly peddled by the Institute for Policy Studies. Its war against the financial system used improvised non-ethical devices (INEDs) designed to destroy capitalism and support Mr. Obama. One of those roadside INEDs was the Cloward-Piven strategy.

Robert Chandler is a retired Air Force colonel and former strategist for the White House, the Departments of State, Defense, Energy and Justice, and the CIA.
Having learned nothing from the abject failure of the war on poverty, you can expect a renewed call for 'welfare for everybody', because work just doesn't work in their minds, while 'welfare for everybody' is a sustainable future in their eyes.
Harrington had seen the poor as victims because they could find no work; his more radical allies, especially a group associated with Columbia University's social-work school, argued that compelling the demoralized inner-city poor to work or take part in training that would fit them for work, instead of giving them unconditional welfare, was itself victimization. Richard A. Cloward and Frances Fox Piven, for example, argued that America's poverty programs—"self-righteously oriented toward getting people off welfare" and making them independent—were violating the civil rights of the poor. Journalist Richard Elman claimed that "vindictive" America was "humiliating" welfare recipients by forcing them to seek entry-level work as taxi drivers, restaurant employees, and factory laborers, instead of giving them a guaranteed minimum income.

Shipler...in his chapter called "Work Doesn't Work"...
The last thing they ever wanted was a sustainable future for America.

1DWetzel at work
      ID: 49962710
      Fri, Jun 05, 2009, 18:10
You messed up one of the links (the second one).

That said, any post that starts "Democrats have been deliberately destroying America" is probably not going to result in any intelligent conversation anyway (I do not count "Did not!" "Did too!" as intelligent conversation.)
2Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Fri, Jun 05, 2009, 18:19
Heh. The panic of 2008 was directly caused by a lack of regulatory oversight on behalf of nearly all financial industries. Nearly entirely non-union industries, I might add. End of story.
3Boldwin
      ID: 133532810
      Fri, Jun 05, 2009, 19:03
The second link.

Washington Times discussing Cloward-Piven.
4Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Fri, Jun 05, 2009, 19:49
Democrats killed Jesus too.

and Ghandi.

and Lou Gehrig.
5Boldwin
      ID: 133532810
      Fri, Jun 05, 2009, 19:51
DWetzel

Ignoring what dem leaders are being taught at their think tanks is not intelligent.

Tracking the specific tactics and results of those strategies as implimented by dem leaders, is intelligent use of a board such as this.
6Pancho Villa
      ID: 5530519
      Fri, Jun 05, 2009, 20:30

Tracking the specific tactics and results of those strategies as implimented by dem leaders, is intelligent use of a board such as this

It could be, if it weren't presented in the framework of Democrats have been deliberately destroying America.

7Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Fri, Jun 05, 2009, 20:42
Democrats have been deliberately destroying America.

you wanna talk about deliberately destroying america?

fine, let's talk about it.

let's talk about a group of people who attacked a nation that was no threat to this nation, or this world, and a half-dozen years later, we can't get out of there without leaving the country in a gigantic mess that will breed terrorists and anti-American groups for generations.

let's talk about a group of people that repeatedly used the Constitution as toilet paper, violating the rights of American citizens left and right.

let's talk about a group of people who suddenly reversed generations of history in this nation by approving torture, and boasting about the torture.

let's talk about a group of people who saw no problem with keeping people in a hellhole prison, on an island, off the US Coast, without charging them of a crime.

let's talk about a group of people who saw fit to expose the identity of CIA agents because they dared speak out against a government gone wild.

let's talk about a group of people who saw Separation of Church and State as an option, and not a basic tenet of this great nation.

and on and on. so don't even go an accuse Democrats of the horse pucky you're accusing them of, when it's the people you root for (even if you are too afraid to vote) who did a number on this nation for the past eight years, doing more to destroy the American way of life than any terrorist ever did.
8Pancho Villa
      ID: 5530519
      Sat, Jun 06, 2009, 10:06
Baldwin claims Democrats have been deliberately destroying America, which is ironic in its emotionalism, something he constantly applies as a liberal shortcoming, but is a dominant theme in most of his posts.

It's disturbing because it clouds and distorts the issue by attributing the elements of the Cloward/Piven strategy to Democrats as a whole and further promoting it as a strategy by Democrats to deliberately destroy America, thus rendering the entire presentation as a radically partisan position more easily dismissed than contemplated.

It's disturbing because the trend toward a socialist welfare state, reversed somewhat by our last Democratic president, appears to be high on the agenda of our current Democratic president. And that's a problem. It's a problem that needs to be addressed and debated without the absurd accusation that Democrats are deliberately destroying America.

Destroy is a powerful word, or at least it should be. California, a prime example of the effects of a bloated bureaucracy and out of control social programs, is not and will not be destroyed. It will have to undergo painful and serious revisions in structure if it is to reclaim its place as an economic juggernaut, and it well may never reclaim such lofty heights, which means it will be different, not destroyed.
9Boldwin
      ID: 133532810
      Sun, Jun 07, 2009, 06:10
I did not mean to imply that every last politician willing to hang a D behind his name buys every prescription from the Institute for Policy Studies but you have to ask yourself why they are still willing to, given the success that think tank has had influencing that party.

I think analyzing just exactly how much cache they have with democrats is a very very interesting question. I can't imagine Barney Frank disagreeing with them one iota. The 'blue dog coalition', not so much.

Another interesting question. Is it even possible that a democratic congressmen isn't aware of just how inimicable the IPS is to the survival of the USA?
10boikin
      ID: 532592112
      Mon, Jun 08, 2009, 10:02
Re: 7 are you talking about FDR administration?

I wonder if these same people also caused 9/11 hoping that it would cause a reactionary response from the government leading to unpopular war that would in turn lead to rise of the democratically controlled congress and president?
11Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Mon, Jun 08, 2009, 12:06
*snort*
12Boldwin
      ID: 25282121
      Sun, Jul 05, 2009, 20:52
Cloward-Piven isn't just a tactic used against the country as a whole...You too can be Cloward-Pivened.

All you need is any lawyer and a crank.
13Seattle Zen
      ID: 13653521
      Sun, Jul 05, 2009, 22:53
LMAO.

My computer froze. When you mix American Thinker and Sarah Palin, the processor goes into a giggle fit that can only be ended by rebooting.
14Boldwin
      ID: 25282121
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 07:57
I know which minds you fear the most by which people you go after with the most fury. Don't tell me she's not very very effective.
15Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 09:30
of course she's scary. she's a bonafide idiot who would somehow lead this country to an even deeper ruin than GW Bush did.
16Seattle Zen
      ID: 30650611
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 12:50
She's not even a little bit effective. She's the result of the Fox News culture. If you want to find someone she most resembles, it's Howard Stern. Large group of rabidly devoted fans. The rest of the world can't stand him/her. I'd bet on Stern on a policy quiz.

Baldwin, name one elected office she will win in the rest of her lifetime.
17Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 13:03
Zen,

I think you missed Baldwin's point. He isn't interested in elected office. He's interested in pissing off "liberals." It is by that measure that he feels she's effective.

Improving the lives of her constituents? Holding and cherishing our in-trust natural resources? Fulfilling her job obligations? Not important. What is important is making "liberals" angry.

This is the mindset of the current self-identified conservative: He is a purely political animal more devoted to totaling up and holding onto "points" than actual political work.
18Seattle Zen
      ID: 30650611
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 13:28
PD

Hmm, that makes sense. Of course, I can imagine these "real" conservatives watching Fox News and cheering the likes of Hannity and Palin, rubbing their hands together, saying, "Ooh, THAT'S going to piss off the liberals", when in truth there isn't a liberal watching.
19Boldwin
      ID: 25282121
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 17:38
Just for starters I predict she will single-handed raise more money for conservatives and get more conservatives elected than any other factor in the next election cycle. That is effective.
20Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 17:39
well, she can't possibly get any LESS conservatives elected at this point...they can only go up from here.
21Boldwin
      ID: 25282121
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 17:40
Baldwin, name one elected office she will win in the rest of her lifetime. - SZ

Assuming america survives the current pendulum swing...she'll be president someday.
22sarge33rd
      ID: 33647616
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 17:47
define *someday*.

Highly unlikely, to ever happen in my lifetime for ex. And assuming I hang around another 20-25 years, her 15 minutes will have long since expired.
23Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 17:54
Well, that "someday" is more than a small qualifier. Someday Michael Dukakis could be president, too.

But #19 is quantifiable. I like it. And I actually have no problem with the belief that she'll raise a boatload of cash for Republican candidates.

Baldwin may not believe this, but pretty much the entire board hopes she becomes the standard bearer for the GOP and has her hand in the pot of every GOP candidate at every level.

24Boldwin
      ID: 25282121
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 17:59
Just like you hope Obama doesn't find a way to silence Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter.
25Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 18:40
Assuming america survives the current pendulum swing...she'll be president someday.

do they elect PTA officials in Alaska?
26Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 19:25
#24: What a bunch of paranoia hooey.

Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh did more recruiting for the Democratic Party than just about anyone in the Democratic Party itself.

When you marginalize yourself as a party, the moderate choice for the other side starts looking more and more attractive to the voter. Hell, a leftist choice starts looking more and more attractive.
27Boldwin
      ID: 25282121
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 19:31
What a bunch of paranoia hooey - PD

Well c'mon then. Take the pledge. 'I, PD, will oppose any attempt by the Obama administration to silence talk radio.'

It's all paranoid hooey, where's the harm, PD?
28Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 19:39
No, because in your world, tax breaks for the middle class could be twisted into some form of "willingness to silence talk radio."

And, in other news from Earth, the fact that Obama comes out against things like the "Fairness Doctrine" makes no dent in your "analysis."
29Boldwin
      ID: 25282121
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 19:44
He also claimed to be against raising my taxes while raising the price of my gasoline, natural gas, etc. thru the roof. For starters.

You are also the one willing to believe the most pro-big government president ever, plans to not raise taxes.

Look up untethered from reality and there swings PD.
30Pancho Villa
      ID: 52616610
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 19:53
He also claimed to be against raising my taxes while raising the price of my gasoline, natural gas, etc. thru the roof. For starters.

Gasoline is cheaper by over a dollar from a year ago. My natural gas bill is flat from a year ago. Etc., is a meaningless term in this context.

So, for starters, why are you making things up? You do realize we all pay bills, right?
31Boldwin
      ID: 25282121
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 19:55
And when Cap and Trade gets passed, indeed you will.
32Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 20:03
Are you making more than $250K/year? Then your federal taxes went down. Federal gas taxes have not risen under Obama--they remain at 18.4 cents/gallon. Any other lies you want to throw out, while I'm wiping you off there?

The Candidate Obama stated he was against the Fairness. Did this matter to the paranoid right? Nope. "Obama wants to silence Rush!" was the cry.

As noted above, President Obama continued to be against the Fairness Doctrine and pushed for its rejection in the Senate (which they did), Did this matter? Noooo. Obama is apparently in a stealth campaign to "silence" Rush and Coulter, despite having the political muscle and votes to get it done, if he chose, up front.
33Boldwin
      ID: 25282121
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 20:14
You will be paying double for gasoline and your home heating bill a year after Cap and Trade passes. In addition every industry and business that uses energy, namely all of them, will be passing those costs of doing business on to you.

It is nothing more than a wealth transfer and an energy tax.

This is not even taking into account the many other ways that the costs of vastly increased size of government will be passed on to us.

I also predict that before his first term is over there will be local community boards packed with raging liberals deciding whether each radio station is sufficiently 'balanced'.

Since you can't sell liberal talk radio it will mean the end of talk radio, other than on satelite pay radio.
34Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 20:33
Heh. For a year now your entire schtick consists of "Yeah, Obama seems reasonable. But just wait!"
35Boldwin
      ID: 25282121
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 20:43
Wait till the futures speculators start playing with the price of gasoline, when Cap and Trade has already driven the price to five dollars.

Quite a ball and chain for America to drag around when competing with China and India who already have virtually free labor and are not going to participate in Cap and Trade or any other pollution control scheme.
36Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 20:46
Yup, more "just wait."

If you think the "just wait until the Democrats demonize themselves" will gain you political power I think you'll be surprised. And you won't have to wait too long, either...
37Boldwin
      ID: 25282121
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 20:49
You need to figure out how you can pass the devastation Cap and Trade [etc] will do to the economy, all the way back to the Bush administration. You can count on that effort coming.
38Boldwin
      ID: 25282121
      Thu, Jul 09, 2009, 00:06
California is the Ghost of Federal Government Future.

During the last two decades, the Golden State has been transformed from what was once known as the nation’s most anti-labor outpost to a state essentially run by public-sector unions. Nearly three in five publicsector workers are unionized, compared to less than two in five public employees in other states. The Democratic Party, which is fully in hock to unions, has controlled the legislature and most statewide posts, with the notable exception of the governor’s mansion, for more than a decade. That means more government workers, higher salaries, and drastically higher pension costs.

According to Adam Summers—a policy analyst at the Reason Foundation, the nonprofit that publishes this magazine—the state’s annual pension fund contribution vaulted from $321 million in 2000–01 to $7.3 billion last year. According to public databases, more than 5,000 people are drawing pensions in excess of $100,000 from the state of California each year.

The federal government is now run by a president and Congress more responsive to union concerns than any in at least two decades. The same bloat currently bogging down statehouses and city halls is being duplicated in boomtown Washington, D.C. President Barack Obama even brought Andy Stern in to help warn Schwarzenegger that federal stimulus money would not be disbursed to California unless the governor rescinded some proposed state job cuts.

On May 19, California voters went to the polls to decide whether to pass a package of six tax-and-gimmick ballot propositions. Its supporters—Republican Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, Democratic legislative leaders, the California Teachers Association, and the overwhelming majority of the state’s major newspapers—billed it as the last best hope to plug Sacramento’s $24 billion budget deficit. “Either pass it,” warned the Los Angeles Times editorial board, “or risk fiscal disaster.”

Those who believe that either money or the media determine political outcomes should pay close heed to what happened next: Although opponents were outspent by more than 7 to 1, they trounced the state’s political class, rejecting five of the six measures by an average of 30 percentage points. The only proposition to pass was an anger-driven new law that limits elected officials’ salaries.

But there’s another interpretation of California’s rebellion, one with far sunnier implications for those of us who prefer our governments constrained. Faced with a political class that ignored bureaucratic inefficiency, that demanded higher taxes, that filled the newspapers with scare stories about people who will literally die as a result of budget cuts, the citizens of one of the bluest states in the nation collectively said we just don’t believe you anymore. If even California’s famous fruits and nuts can call the statists’ bluff, there may be hope for the rest of the country. - Matt Welch, Reason

---------------------------------

First the once-great city of Detroit, then California, and soon the entire country if we don't come to our senses, and fast.

Saul Alinsky's new leftism combined with old-style Tammany Hall democratic party corruption is the political version of the Star Trek Doomsday Machine, devouring and destroying everything in its path. - Commenter at Reason
I've been working on a post or thread of the same nature for a week.

This administration is Chicago politics writ large combined with the fundamental corruption of marxism in practice. There is never remotely enuff money to go around to cover every promise a marxist/democrat makes so it get's spread around to the cronies and party workers and stops there when it runs out.
39Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Thu, Jul 09, 2009, 01:13
So California is now Obama's fault? Jeez, you'd think there would be enough real blame to go around.
40Boldwin
      ID: 25282121
      Thu, Jul 09, 2009, 06:00
Don't let it get out that you are reading challenged.

The point is that the USA is the new California. Going down the same road. We've already seen this movie.
41Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Thu, Jul 09, 2009, 08:56
Nonsense, Baldwin. California's financial problem stems from the strictures placed upon their Legislature by initiatives, starting in 1978 with Prop 13.
42Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Thu, Jul 09, 2009, 09:00
and liberuls PD. those guys are the sux!1!!1!
43sarge33rd
      ID: 456598
      Thu, Jul 09, 2009, 09:05
re #35

Wait till the futures speculators start playing with the price of gasoline

Had you stopped right there, your comment would be entirely accurate. You see, this most recent runup of gas prices was ENTIRELY due to unrestrained capitalism and financial speculators. Supplies were up; demand was down; yet the prices were at all time highs.
44Pancho Villa
      ID: 5965298
      Thu, Jul 09, 2009, 10:29
There is never remotely enuff money to go around to cover every promise a marxist/democrat makes so it get's spread around to the cronies and party workers and stops there when it runs out.

So, how do you explain when it happens to a state government dominated for decades by conservative Republicans?
45DWetzel
      ID: 278201415
      Thu, Jul 09, 2009, 10:44
Obama.

And the gays.
46Boldwin
      ID: 467910
      Thu, Jul 09, 2009, 11:13
I don't know why that answer isn't perfectly obvious to anyone who reads the link in #38.

It wasn't Republicans who handed the keys to the kingdom over to the public sector unions.
47Razor
      ID: 371502414
      Thu, Jul 09, 2009, 11:28
I think PD's very obvious point is that blaming Democrats for bankrupting California no the grounds that they are free-spending, union-loving Democrats does not seem to hold water when the exact same thing is happening in a state controlled primarily by Republicans.
48Boldwin
      ID: 467910
      Thu, Jul 09, 2009, 11:51
Well if you contend that Utah republicans are in bed with the public sector unions feel free to try, but I highly doubt it. I'll grant you that retirement fund managers all took a fall last year, no matter from which party.

You would be hard pressed to find a state where the public sector unions screwed up a state more than in California and the fact that the state threw out their Dem governor midterm and put in Swartzenegar is pretty stark proof of which party is to blame.
49bibA
      Leader
      ID: 261028117
      Thu, Jul 09, 2009, 11:59
the fact that the state threw out their Dem governor midterm and put in Swartzenegar is pretty stark proof of which party is to blame.

And it's a damn good thing they did too, or hell, the state would probably be bankrupt by now.
50Boldwin
      ID: 467910
      Thu, Jul 09, 2009, 12:04
These things always should be blamed on the previous administration. Hasn't Obama taught you anything?
51Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Fri, Jul 10, 2009, 00:30
Yes, he's taught us that both intelligence and the truth matter. It seems you are so anti-Democratic that you are willing to jettison those things as well.
52Boldwin
      ID: 467910
      Fri, Jul 10, 2009, 09:48
Obama is the slickest liar I have ever seen when it comes to the big things. Clinton was the best liar when it came to the petty CYA things.

That you would think that Obama has any connection to the truth says volumes about the mind you lost.
55Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 37838313
      Sat, Apr 10, 2010, 10:53
The bizarre tale of how Frances Fox Piven came to be seen as the author of a blueprint for a radical takeover of American society by paranoid conservatives.
57Tree
      ID: 248472317
      Sat, Apr 10, 2010, 21:04
"Can you think of anything sillier than to attribute the financial crisis to an article in a low-circulation magazine in 1966?" (Sociologist Frances Fox Piven) calls (Glenn) Beck's efforts to find an easy "scapegoat" for the country's troubles typical of "right-wing ideologues."
58Boldwin
      ID: 634489
      Sat, Apr 10, 2010, 22:24
Yeah, Columbia professors in the 60's were such benign creatures.
59Mith
      ID: 4010542612
      Fri, Jan 21, 2011, 17:52
Prompted by death threats received by Frances Fox Piven, the Center for Constitutional Rights asks Roger Ailes to muzzle Glenn Beck.

Here's the letter.

Even as someone who watches the Glenn Beck Program and is familiar witth the schtick, it's a bit shocking to see so much vile rhetoric in one place produced by one guy in a relatively short period of time.
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