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Subject: I Said A Bad Thing
Posted by: Pancho Villa
- [42231410] Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 12:05
Don Imus is under intense pressure for comments he made about the Rutger's University womens' basketball team last week.
Outside of New York, Imus is barely known, yet he seems to have a long career and a loyal following. Al Sharpton has called for his firing, as well as complaining to the FCC. Jesse Jackson is organizing a rally in Chicago.
I'm curious why Sharpton and Jackson haven't been as vocal about the the hundreds of songs by hip hop artists that use the same type of language(hos) in ways even more degrading and irresponsible. It's a complete double standard where free speech and expression is acceptable on one hand and unacceptable on the other.
Imus is an entertainer and, as I understand it, somewhat comedic.
If the FCC gets involved in this case, how can it not be intrepreted as the government interferring with free speech? |
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| 238 | Tree
ID: 248472317
Sat, Feb 06, 2010, 09:27
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and related to 237:
Palin's campaign against the "R-word" hits snag with Limbaugh
...Palin's conservative cohort Rush Limbaugh took offense to people, presumably including Palin, protesting Emanuel's remark. On his radio show, Limbaugh lamented that "our political correct society is acting like some giant insult's taken place by calling a bunch of people who are retards, retards." That comment caused Greg Sargent (of the Washington Post) to request a reaction from Palin's spokeswoman. It also caused confusion over whether Palin believes Limbaugh's public statements - like Emanuel's private ones - crossed the line.
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| 240 | Mith
ID: 37838313
Sat, Apr 07, 2012, 19:46
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National Review kicks John Derbyshire to the curb.
Rich Lowry:Anyone who has read Derb in our pages knows he’s a deeply literate, funny, and incisive writer. I direct anyone who doubts his talents to his delightful first novel, “Seeing Calvin Coolidge in a Dream,” or any one of his “Straggler” columns in the books section of NR. Derb is also maddening, outrageous, cranky, and provocative. His latest provocation, in a webzine, lurches from the politically incorrect to the nasty and indefensible. We never would have published it, but the main reason that people noticed it is that it is by a National Review writer. Derb is effectively using our name to get more oxygen for views with which we’d never associate ourselves otherwise. So there has to be a parting of the ways. Derb has long danced around the line on these issues, but this column is so outlandish it constitutes a kind of letter of resignation. It’s a free country, and Derb can write whatever he wants, wherever he wants. Just not in the pages of NR or NRO, or as someone associated with NR any longer. PD linked the column in the Trayvon Martin thread but here it is again.
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| 241 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915
Sat, Apr 07, 2012, 21:23
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Good for them. It was a nasty column--can't believe some are trying to defend it (not here, thank goodness).
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| 242 | Mith
ID: 37838313
Sat, Apr 07, 2012, 21:38
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Yeah NR is taking a bit of heat from their own today for firing him. He put them in a terrible spot.
I'm not one to cite trends on internet comments sections as evidence of what people on one side of the political aisle or the other generally think. But since Boldwin is, I encourage him to take a look at the comments under articles about Derbyshire's column at sites like daily caller and breitbart.com. It aint pretty.
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| 243 | Boldwin
ID: 12214143
Sat, Apr 07, 2012, 22:50
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Sometimes the truth is ugly. I'd bet the farm everyone here uses a number of those ideas to stay alive when they visit the big city, tho they dare not breathe a word of it in these PC times.
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| 244 | Boldwin
ID: 12214143
Sat, Apr 07, 2012, 22:59
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Even Jesse Jackson and Obama's surrogate mom.
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| 245 | Boldwin
ID: 12214143
Sat, Apr 07, 2012, 23:03
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And you know NR has gone over to the enemy when they start enforcing standard PC speech codes.
And pushing Trotskite/Leo Strauss' neo-cons.
And stabbing Ann Coulter in the back.
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| 246 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915
Sat, Apr 07, 2012, 23:23
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Yeah, whenever I go to the beach, I call ahead to see if there will be a lot of blacks there. Stands to reason, yes?
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| 247 | Mith
ID: 37838313
Sat, Apr 07, 2012, 23:26
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Boldwin
Let's not BS, ok? It's not that every last thing Derbyshire said in that piece that makes him a racist.
Your careful qualifier: ("a number of those ideas") is not clever. It's a cheap way for you to establish a point from which to defend a fellow conservative while still maintaining a safe distance from the meat of the thing.
So lets deal with the issue like men and not cherrypick the least offensive points, as if generally claiming that blacks and whites tend to display antisocial behavior differently (#7) is what got everyone riled up and Derbyshire fired.
John Derbyshire is a racist. This was well-established a long time ago. All this latest column did was reaffirm it.
So lets not tiptoe around the subject, OK? Are you saying you agree with Derbyshire's items 10C through 12 (those seem to be the worst of it) or not?
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| 248 | Boldwin
ID: 12214143
Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 00:40
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I disagree with the whole smug, race baiting, self-righteous, censoring, phantom Godless virtue, lynch-mob mentality that has the left hissing like extras on the set of 'Body Snatchers'.
No I will not cooperate with your witch hunt.
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| 249 | Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916
Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 01:04
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I disagree with the whole smug, race baiting, self-righteous, censoring, phantom Godless virtue, lynch-mob mentality that has the left hissing like extras on the set of 'Body Snatchers'.
So, National Review is now the left. They've gone over to the enemy when they start enforcing standard PC speech codes.
What you really disagree with is basic respect for any idea which doesn't meld with your increasingly marginalized fringe element. I can't think of a position that envelopes phantom Godless virtue any more than this.
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| 250 | Mith
ID: 23217270
Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 02:03
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As if writing that column is anything but race-baiting.
As if Boldy's refusal to judge the merit of the column on the singular values of it's ethics and morality because doing so concedes a point to his political opposition is anything but self-righteous.
As if what he calls censorship wouldn't instead be a "triumph of natural market forces at work" if Derbyshire's political alignment were reversed (LE to CG).
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| 251 | Boldwin
ID: 12214143
Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 09:50
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PV
Yeah, you wish Tea Party sentiments were 'marginalized'. I'll be pleased if they stay as marginalized as they were in 2010.
MITH
No, the tyranny of lynch mob intimidation is anything but market forces at work.
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| 252 | Mith
ID: 50151411
Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 10:02
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So when Sean Hannity and a bunch of conservatives tried to get David Letterman fired over offensive things he said about the Palin family, that was tyranny of lynch mob intimidation?
Funny but I'm pretty sure you didn't characterize it that way at the time.
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| 253 | Mith
ID: 50151411
Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 10:06
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Nope, see post 151.
In that case, it was just a matter of some good people letting Letterman know their feelings were hurt. Haha!
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| 254 | bibA
ID: 4057177
Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 10:08
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So let me get this straight Baldwin. You define the reaction to this guys comments as being from a lynch mob mentality. You of course would not allow yourself to partake in such behavior. Thus, one is led to believe that you have no objections to what Derby has written re his racial views. Are any of his points even just a bit objectionable to you?
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| 255 | Boldwin
ID: 12214143
Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 10:11
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biba
See #238B
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| 256 | Boldwin
ID: 12214143
Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 10:15
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Of course the ironic part is that if liberals unhypocritically ignored the realities discussed by Derby it would really even out the left/right imbalance on the board. Kinda cull the herd a bit. Survival of the fittest ideas in action.
Jesse Jackson on the otherhand is smart enuff to check his ideology at the boundary of no-man's-land.
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| 257 | Mith
ID: 50151411
Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 10:29
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So we're not allowed to critcize racism unless we also acknowledge any agreeable points that happen to be made as well?
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| 258 | Boldwin
ID: 12214143
Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 10:32
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Nah, yer not allowed to practice Jesse Jackson's practical policy of racial profiling, while drumming anyone out of employment for publishing those realities.
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| 259 | Mith
ID: 50151411
Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 10:43
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You're accusing me of unfairly profiling John Derbyshire as a racist?
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| 260 | Boldwin
ID: 12214143
Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 10:55
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Worse than that.
I am accusing you of joining in a howling mob bent on destroying someone for daring to publish realities you yourself believe in and practice as a matter of self-preservation.
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| 261 | Seattle Zen
ID: 4811181319
Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 11:39
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No, Baldwin, real men do NOT believe or practice any of those reprehensible practices. This is just further proof that you really are a racist POS.
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| 262 | Mith
ID: 23217270
Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 11:44
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Any objective realities that happen be in that column are not the issue. It's the confirmed and published racism that I criticize. That you don't respect me or any other liberal enough to think I or they are capable of offering such a criticism as anything but a mob mentality reaction says more about you than me. Several times in this very forum I've personally defended you from silly charges of racism and more often than that I've criticized liberal members for using the term haphazardly.
You're the one succumbing to mob mentality, in the form of refusing to take a particular opinion at face value because of the damage you fear it causes your political agenda.
And what a joke your standard is. As if every time you come here to bitch about what some liberal writes you take the time to acknowledge some of the more objective points s/he uses to support a greater opinion that you find highly offensive (such as that white people risk their safety by spending too much time around unfamiliar black people, especially black people in large numbers).
And don't ever tell me what I believe. Through my adult life I've regularly broken every one of Derb's tips for safe living in a country with black people. Its how I know the difference between approaching people like they are human beings and living in pathetic and paranoid xenophobic fear of them.
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| 263 | Tree
ID: 17039238
Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 12:50
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Sometimes the truth is ugly. I'd bet the farm everyone here uses a number of those ideas to stay alive when they visit the big city, tho they dare not breathe a word of it in these PC times.
you'd lose the farm.
some of us have lived in big cities for a long time. i've spent the majority of my life in large cities - 3 of the top 8 metropolitan areas in the US and 2 of the top 16 biggest cities - and i've actually never looked at skin color as a method to "stay alive".
if you're lazy, ignorant, or stupid, i can understand doing that, because you don't have the ability to think for yourself. the brain capacity simply isn't there.
but if you've got even a lick of sense, my spidey sense is gonna tingle when i'm being followed by someone, regardless of skin color. i'm going to avoid closed off alley ways, regardless of neighborhood. i'm not going to wear my headphone at night. i'm going to try and avoid ATMs after dark.
for people with half a brain, skin color has nothing to do with it.
and while i've been called on the carpet for referring to you as a racist, and have since backed off and instead gone gentle and followed the "PC-mob mentality" by calling you a bigot, i can't help but feel in my heart of hearts that you're the most racist person i've ever had the displeasure of interacting with.
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| 264 | Boldwin
ID: 12214143
Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 13:15
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I've spent considerable time in Chicago riding bikes, riding the el and subways, driving thru, going door to door in every sort of neighborhood, not curled up in a xenophobic ball.
Everyone in Chicago has a finely graded map of the city's safety block by block, and it isn't based on skin color per se. It is based on what liberals have done to degrade society.
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| 265 | Tree
ID: 17039238
Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 13:47
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Everyone in Chicago
that's a lie. i just called two different friends in Chicago. Neither has any sort of map of what you're referring to. neither do their wives, or children.
and it isn't based on skin color per se.
which has nothing to do with your own racism, of course.
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| 266 | Boldwin
ID: 12214143
Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 13:51
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i just called two different friends in Chicago.
Sure you did. They all have that mental map or they are dead.
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| 267 | Mith
ID: 23217270
Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 14:12
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Boldwin
If 264 is intended to imply that you've had personal experiences to apply in judging the merit of Derb's column, it's interesting for you to admit that you have broken some of the rules, too.
Did 5% of the black people in those places seem ferociously hostile toward you in reaction to the color of your skin and go out of their way to harm or inconvenience you?
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| 268 | Boldwin
ID: 12214143
Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 14:43
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I'm just curious. Did you think you could spend your whole life telling them to live their whole life in a state of unresolved rage, tell them whites were devils, tell them they deserved payback, tell them they were cheated and hated...
...and then think that would make them good neighbors?
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| 269 | sarge33rd
ID: 13325518
Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 14:55
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sp in the "world according to Boldwin", it is perfectly alright for a rightwingnut to spew racist crap as a viable life-philosophy, but not OK for a leftwing comedian to use disparaging terms to describe a female, in his on stage-adult only-standup act.
Is that about the sum total of it there Boldwin?
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| 270 | Mith
ID: 23217270
Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 15:03
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Between Derbshire and me, one of us gives every person and group the same fair shake and one of us does not. My living out that principle and criticizing someone who thinks Im an idit for it is what you're mocking.
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| 271 | Tree
ID: 17039238
Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 17:56
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Sure you did. They all have that mental map or they are dead.
there's even a song named after one of them, courtesy of Wesley Willis.
and since they answered their phone, i'm going to presume they're not dead.
Did you think you could spend your whole life telling them to live their whole life in a state of unresolved rage, tell them whites were devils, tell them they deserved payback, tell them they were cheated and hated...
......and then think that would make them good neighbors?
LOL. what vile hate are you spewing now? wow.
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| 272 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915
Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 18:20
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I'm just curious. Did you think you could spend your whole life telling them to live their whole life in a state of unresolved rage, tell them blacks were devils, tell them they deserved payback, tell them they were cheated and hated...
...and then think that would make them good neighbors?
The Far Right platform on race relations.
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| 273 | Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916
Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 20:10
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Yeah, you wish Tea Party sentiments were 'marginalized'. I'll be pleased if they stay as marginalized as they were in 2010.
You think blatant racist rants are Tea Party sentiments? Show me any Tea Party charter or mission statement that even begins to emulate the kind of rhetoric Derbshire is promoting.
Are you so desperate for acceptance of the unacceptable that you're willing to use any type of successful movement, no matter how unrelated, as justification?
I don't know what kind of country you want to live in, but I can tell you what kind of country you're going to live in. Caucasians will have more children with blacks, Hispanics, Asians, etc., until it won't matter anymore.
To many of us, it doesn't matter now.
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| 274 | Boldwin
ID: 12214143
Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 21:04
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Did you think you could spend your whole life telling them to live their whole life in a state of unresolved rage, tell them whites were devils, tell them they deserved payback, tell them they were cheated and hated...
......and then think that would make them good neighbors?
LOL. what vile hate are you spewing now? wow.
- Tree
Just reading from the songbook liberals have been singing to blacks my whole life.
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| 275 | Tree
ID: 17039238
Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 21:15
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Just reading from the songbook liberals have been singing to blacks my whole life.
maybe from the songbook you bring with you to Klan rallies.
you're surrounded by liberals here. why don't you ask us how many have told our black friends to live in a state of unresolved rage, that whites were devils, that they deserved payback, and that they were cheated and hated.
pretty sick stuff you're coming up with.
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| 276 | Boldwin
ID: 12214143
Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 21:47
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It is ludicrous to deny that blacks have been told relentlessly that the deck is stacked against them, that the man is keeping them down, that the establishment is cheating them, that they deserve and require assistance, that slavery reparations are a good idea, necessary even, that white society is seething with racism against blacks.
Oh, but reciting from your own playbook is 'pretty sick stuff'.
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| 277 | Tree
ID: 17039238
Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 22:01
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that white society is seething with racism against blacks.
this, at least in part, is true. look at your posts, look at the column that started this whole discussion.
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| 278 | Boldwin
ID: 12214143
Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 22:19
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Again it's not about race. It's about the damage liberals have done to a large segment of black society.
Actually it is the 'long overdue discussion about race' that liberals keep calling for, just not the accusing finger they are pointing with, but rather all the fingers pointing back at them.
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| 279 | sarge33rd
ID: 13325518
Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 22:50
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Your blind, irrational hatred for all things left of the FAR FAR FAR FAR right, has left you utterly unable to cognitively process the truth.
Do yourself, and us a favor Boldwin....go away.
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| 280 | Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916
Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 23:25
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Again it's not about race. It's about the damage liberals have done to a large segment of black society.
No, it's about John Derbyshire writing a disturbingly racist article, and the conservative National Review releasing him because they don't want to be associated with such garbage.
It is about race. And it should be noted that the conservatives, like Rich Lowry, who refuse to allow a platform for such bigotry, should be commended for their efforts to distance themselves from these types of divisive tactics.
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| 281 | Tree
ID: 17039238
Mon, Apr 09, 2012, 02:41
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Again it's not about race.
to a racist who doesn't believe himself a racist, i suppose not.
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| 282 | Boldwin
ID: 12214143
Mon, Apr 09, 2012, 05:11
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The conversation was started by Daniel Patrick Moynihan explaining how the great society was going to destroy the black community.
Jesse Jackson in a moment of clarity and honesty explained just how bad it had gotten but you don't get many moments like that because liberals are afraid being honest will provide conservatives too much ammunition.
So we won't as a society be having that long overdue discussion. In fact society will try to destroy anyone who speaks the truth.
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| 283 | Boldwin
ID: 12214143
Mon, Apr 09, 2012, 05:38
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And just think of all those poor college students loaded to the gills with pent up venom from years of black studies courses at 10 grand a year plus interest...
...and no discussion to use it.
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| 284 | Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916
Mon, Apr 09, 2012, 09:43
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I freely admit that some misguided efforts by liberals have negatively affected the black community over the years, forced busing in the 70s being one of the best examples. Why anyone other than basketball coaches thought bringing the ghetto into the suburbs would do anything other than increase tensions in relations is hard to figure.
But I don't see how being fixated on past misguided efforts in any way excuses Derbyshire's dreams of segregation, who you applaud as someone who speaks the truth. I really fail to see how propping Derbyshire up as some kind of champion of free speech in any way moves this country forward in relation to race relations, which have dramatically improved in almost every area over the decades, thanks, in part, to efforts by liberals you are so eager to demonize, that you would partner up with a contingency that lines up closer to the Aryan Nation than the conservatives you claim to represent.
Isn't it sad that Derbyshire's column is seen as an opportunity to rail about liberals, mental maps of sections of cities to avoid, and citing those who feel the context is unacceptable are the enemy?
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| 285 | Tree
ID: 17039238
Mon, Apr 09, 2012, 09:44
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The conversation was started by Daniel Patrick Moynihan explaining how the great society was going to destroy the black community.
it started in 1992? lmao.
your racism was rooted well before then, i'm sure.
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| 286 | Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916
Mon, Apr 09, 2012, 10:10
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your racism was rooted well before then, i'm sure.
I don't know that it's so much a case of racism as it is an opportunity to make generic claims of liberal failures, a fixation that seems to overrule any kind of rational thought, much less an opportunity to advance positive momentum toward a more productive and color blind society.
In order to move in that direction, we'll need to marginalize not only the Derbyshires out there, but the segment of the black community that uses every incident that arises(Trayvon Martin?)to claim victim status while promoting an agenda that can honestly be described as reverse racism.
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| 287 | Tree
ID: 8321910
Mon, Apr 09, 2012, 11:25
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we'll need to marginalize not only the Derbyshires out there, but the segment of the black community that uses every incident that arises(Trayvon Martin?)to claim victim status
oh, no doubt. if the Al Sharpton's of the world didn't chime in anytime something like this happened, we wouldn't have people like Baldwin standing on their soap box screaming and pointing going "See! See!"
(note Baldwin, despite your inane desire to paint everything as liberal this and liberal that, there are plenty of us liberals that don't like some of the tactics used).
none of this changes my opinion that Baldwin defending a racist is no shock. and that if it walks and quacks like a duck, well, it's a duck.
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| 288 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915
Mon, Apr 09, 2012, 20:51
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Noah Millman with a conservative response to the Derb.
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