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Subject: Green Jobs Leading the Way
Posted by: Boldwin
- [35615181] Sat, Sep 10, 2011, 15:26
*chortle*
The future that wasn't. Green jobs will happen when green tech and green science make sufficient progress in efficiencies and not one forced moment sooner.
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| 132 | sarge33rd
ID: 211332319 Mon, Jan 23, 2012, 20:24
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Since when Boldwin, are YOU the metric by which all transportation is judged???? Park your arrogance, along with your car.
That 4 hr train ride Tree refers to, between Austin and DFW; would be 2 hrs faster than the 6 hr drive it took over Thanksgiving weekend, to traverse DFW to Austin. No wrecks, no detours for construction, no delays for roadwork...just roughly 240 miles of bumper to bumper traffic on I-35S.
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| 133 | Boldwin
ID: 49030519 Mon, Jan 23, 2012, 20:34
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Oh no, you are right of course.
Trains are perfect for the few people who happen to both live near a station and whose destination is close to a station and who like being trapped with perfect strangers for extended periods and who don't want the freedom to spontaneously change their route or destination en route and who like paying for redundant means of transportation for routes that don't fit those tight specifications.
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| 134 | sarge33rd
ID: 211332319 Mon, Jan 23, 2012, 21:00
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pretty narrow minded arent you?
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| 135 | Boldwin
ID: 49030519 Mon, Jan 23, 2012, 21:42
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Yeah, so narrow minded not to let you pull tax dollars out of my pocket for terrible ideas and projects.
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| 136 | Tree
ID: 17039238 Mon, Jan 23, 2012, 23:28
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TrainsAirplanes are perfect for the few people who happen to both live near a station and whose destination is close to a station and who like being trapped with perfect strangers for extended periods and who don't want the freedom to spontaneously change their route or destination en route and who like paying for redundant means of transportation for routes that don't fit those tight specifications.
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| 137 | sarge33rd
ID: 211332319 Mon, Jan 23, 2012, 23:47
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maybe you need B, to reread the part about highway subsidies, and the tax dollars spent there, but never collected from drivers. (ie, the way YOU pull tax dollars from bicyclists pockets, to subsidze YOUR car)
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| 138 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915 Tue, Jan 24, 2012, 00:06
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If it was free it would not be advantageous for me to take it
By the metric of time, perhaps.
Yet literally millions of people drive long distances, along subsidized roads using subsidized fuels, etc., spending far more time than a train would between those places.
Subsidizing trains by a fraction of the amount we subsidize roads and air travel would make it far more advantageous for far more people, even if train travel will never be one you take.
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| 139 | Boikin roaming
ID: 237522111 Tue, Jan 24, 2012, 15:55
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How does air travel get subsidized? I understand indirectly through oil and government subsidize of airports run ways...but do the directly?
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| 140 | Biliruben
ID: 358252515 Tue, Jan 24, 2012, 16:09
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I'm not sure, but the trillion or so we've spent on airports would dwarf any other subsidies that exist in any case.
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| 141 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915 Tue, Jan 24, 2012, 17:37
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Take away the direct subsidies and the cost of building the airports (which are typically built through taxpayer bonds--another form of subsidy) and airlines have not turned a net profit in their 100 year history.
Airlines and the canine features of unprofitable industries.
In fact, to get the cost efficiency that Boldwin hails, the US government sometimes subsidizes routes to the tune of $3700 per passenger.
If airlines were treated like we treat Amtrak, only about ten percent of us would have ever flown in a plane.
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| 142 | biliruben
ID: 59551120 Sat, Feb 04, 2012, 05:34
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Activists Fight Green Projects, Seeing UN plot.
I can't prove it, but I'm sure that's Boldwin in the blue dress.
In Maine, the Tea Party-backed Republican governor canceled a project to ease congestion along the Route 1 corridor after protesters complained it was part of the United Nations plot. Similar opposition helped doom a high-speed train line in Florida. And more than a dozen cities, towns and counties, under new pressure, have cut off financing for a program that offers expertise on how to measure and cut carbon emissions.
“It sounds a little on the weird side, but we’ve found we ignore it at our own peril,” said George Homewood, a vice president of the American Planning Association’s chapter in Virginia.
The protests date to 1992 when the United Nations passed a sweeping, but nonbinding, 100-plus-page resolution called Agenda 21 that was designed to encourage nations to use fewer resources and conserve open land by steering development to already dense areas. They have gained momentum in the past two years because of the emergence of the Tea Party movement, harnessing its suspicion about government power and belief that man-made global warming is a hoax.
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| 143 | Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916 Sat, Feb 04, 2012, 11:01
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Suprising poster child company for green jobs leading the way
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| 144 | Boldwin
ID: 49030519 Sat, Feb 04, 2012, 11:10
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If it was known for a fact it would stop Agenda 21, they could fill any hearing room audience with blue dresses.
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| 145 | Boldwin
ID: 49030519 Sat, Feb 04, 2012, 11:18
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How big was your lunatic check to ICLIE, bili?
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| 146 | biliruben
ID: 59551120 Sat, Feb 04, 2012, 11:29
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I generally don't do lunatic checks.
Just helping you out, giving your ideas some sunlight, and perhaps lending them more credibility than they deserve. People can then make up their own mind on the lunacy issue.
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| 147 | Boldwin
ID: 49030519 Sat, Feb 04, 2012, 11:57
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I did appreciate the belated recognition that I was onto something big and real. Far less belated in your case than anyone else here.
Still it was called lunatic for even being suggested, and you did joke? thereafter that you felt like cutting a check in favor of the lunatic idea.
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| 148 | Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916 Sat, Feb 04, 2012, 12:27
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The lunacy was well established in the Antelope Valley thread, with this from #139 cementing the lunacy:
And those people got what they wanted at Earth Summit in Rio in 1992
And they got what they wanted in Earth Summit Rio+20 this year.
And they got what they wanted when Bush signed the Agenda 21 document.
And they got what they wanted when the president tasked ICLIE to draw up model local laws to impliment Agenda 21 in every county in America.
And they always eventually get what they want after as many iterations of Delphi Technique phony 'public buy in' sessions as it takes.
And they always get what they want when the zoning boards adopt ICLIE models for their own county/region etc.
And they always get what they want when the regional General Plan is drawn up because you wouldn't want to miss out on any federal dollars.
And you are as good as screwed and dumped on the asphalt in front of a crowded crowded tenement building never to own a car again and you don't even know it.
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| 149 | biliruben
ID: 59551120 Sat, Feb 04, 2012, 12:59
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Well, the UN conspiracy theory angle is pretty out-there, though I'm not particularly motivated to make too much effort to examine or refute.
As far as giving money, though I'd never heard of Agenda 21, I have long espoused parallel ideals, so why wouldn't I support the cause?
Our world cannot support ranch houses on an acre of land for 6 billion people. We have to come up with ways to live together with our fellow humans in closer proximity while still maintaining the essential pieces of our way of life. Anyone working towards that goal is pro-human race. Anyone spouting on about conspiracies while ignoring the essential truth that we need to start trying minimize our impact on the earth to sustainable levels, is attempting to doom humankind.
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| 150 | Boldwin
ID: 49030519 Sat, Feb 04, 2012, 14:26
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Thanks PV
bili
The planet can be 'saved' without stealing people's property.
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| 151 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915 Sat, Feb 04, 2012, 14:26
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Which is what is actually going on here in the United States of America.
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| 152 | Boldwin
ID: 49030519 Sat, Feb 04, 2012, 14:36
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Your property has just been re-zoned completely unusable. Per UN design.
Robbinhood will be around shortly to make you a worthless offer you can't refuse.
Or you can just go on paying full property taxes on a now useless property.
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| 153 | bibA
ID: 4057177 Sat, Feb 04, 2012, 15:27
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Bummer for you Perm. Must have spoiled your whole day when you found out about the re-zoning of your property, making it essentially worthless.
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| 154 | Boldwin
ID: 49030519 Sat, Feb 04, 2012, 15:35
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If he's on wooded property outside the city, this isn't academic. He will run into this eventually.
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| 155 | Boldwin
ID: 49030519 Sat, Feb 04, 2012, 15:38
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And even inside the city, I'd be surprised if someday he isn't forced to convert his single family residence into multiple before he gets a remodeling permit.
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| 156 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915 Sat, Feb 04, 2012, 17:06
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Yeah, because "UN = bad" and the Constitution doesn't matter because of the nefarious Agenda 21...
What a pathetic thing the far right has turned into.
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| 157 | Boldwin
ID: 49030519 Sat, Feb 04, 2012, 19:14
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Send us the big grinning photo of you turning the mortgage over to a squirrel.
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| 158 | sarge33rd
ID: 211332319 Sat, Feb 04, 2012, 19:29
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I'd be surprised if someday he isn't forced to convert his single family residence into multiple before he gets a remodeling permit.
How many other unsubstantiated, wildly random, hyseteric driven suppositions are you planning on jumping to yet today?
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| 159 | Boldwin
ID: 49030519 Sat, Feb 04, 2012, 19:41
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You can't even build a mall or commercial building in parts of California without adding multiple dwelling space to it.
If you think they only have eyes on wealthy property owners, that is where you are wrong.
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| 160 | sarge33rd
ID: 211332319 Sat, Feb 04, 2012, 19:44
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ummm, FTR? PD lives in PA, not CA. So it doesnt much matter WHAT building requirements are "in parts",{anonymous and unidentified parts apparently} of CA, when referencing PDs possible building requirements.
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| 161 | Boldwin
ID: 49030519 Sat, Feb 04, 2012, 20:00
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ICLIE is the national conduit of UN rules. Cities from sea to shining sea copy their planning codes from ICLIE.
Ya'know, like all the way from California to PA.
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| 162 | Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916 Sat, Feb 04, 2012, 20:10
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Cities from sea to shining sea copy their planning codes from ICLIE.
False. Cities that ICLIE members are under no committment to implement any of the template provided. They may implement some and ignore others. There's no steadfast adherence and no "they" with a gun to city councils and planning commissions.
I demonstrated this clearly in another thread concerning Las Vegas, whose mayor is a regional ICLIE director, and the city charter is replete with ICLIE suggestions. Yet, in the planning, development and zoning of Las Vegas, the developers have had a free hand in overriding ICLIE suggested codes, which is the case in most cities which subscribe to ICLIE.
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| 163 | Boldwin
ID: 49030519 Sat, Feb 04, 2012, 20:26
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are under no committment to implement
Nor did I say they were.
That's why this stealthy thing is called soft tyranny.
Ask the crushed people in Antelope Vally.
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| 164 | sarge33rd
ID: 211332319 Sat, Feb 04, 2012, 20:55
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Funny, I thought the GOP was the leading practitioner of "stealthy, soft tyranny".
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| 165 | Boldwin
ID: 49030519 Sat, Feb 04, 2012, 21:01
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Yeah, soft tyranny and Gadsden Flag go together. */sarc*
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| 166 | Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916 Sat, Feb 04, 2012, 21:15
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Ask the crushed people in Antelope Vally.
288,476(98.8%) Antelope Valley residents expressed no problem with current codes. However, 78.5% of residents were upset that an antelope hadn't been spotted in the valley since 1972. Most blame former Gov. Reagan.
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| 167 | Boldwin
ID: 49030519 Sat, Feb 04, 2012, 21:35
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That's why we call them sheep. They don't see it coming until the hammer comes down.
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| 168 | Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916 Sat, Feb 04, 2012, 22:15
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You keep going back to Antelope Valley, yet you claim this is happening in every city and county in the country. It's unfortunate that Antelope Valley, which is separated from the LA basin by a mountain range, is subject to the same codes and zoning as Compton, East LA, Malibu, Hollywood and my hometown of Pasadena. Yet, Lancaster and Palmdale are now simply LA suburbs, which is why only a handful of people in the remote desert are affected in such a negative fashion as reported in the LA Weekly article.
But you've projected it to every city council, every planning commission, every zoning department in the country, qualifying it, of course, with eventually. And the Antelope Valley evictions have nothing to do with ICLIE anyway.
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| 169 | Boldwin
ID: 49030519 Sat, Feb 04, 2012, 23:04
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ICLIE is infiltrating everywhere more or less. Maine is a nightmare. They are stealing the land left and right. Humans will nearly go extinct in Maine. Clinton stole so much land in the west it should have been called his personal war against America. This isn't limited to a few places.
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| 170 | Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916 Sat, Feb 04, 2012, 23:51
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#169
There's not a coherent moment in that entire post.
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| 171 | Boldwin
ID: 49030519 Sun, Feb 05, 2012, 00:50
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What's not coherent? It's a coherent UN takeover of sovereignty. All over the coherent earth for that matter.
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| 172 | Boldwin
ID: 49030519 Sun, Feb 05, 2012, 00:54
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And don't tell me to forget it because you know a strip of land where it isn't happening. They come for a corridor here, a corridor there, and then they come for everything in between.
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| 173 | Tree
ID: 17039238 Sun, Feb 05, 2012, 10:08
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<>are under no committment to implement
Nor did I say they were.
That's why this stealthy thing is called soft tyranny.
so, um, because they're not doing something, it's a tyranny. perfect.
They come for a corridor here, a corridor there, and then they come for everything in between.
you had better move out of the United States fast! i hear that next week they're coming for your little plot of land in Dogsniff, Illinois.
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| 174 | Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916 Sun, Feb 05, 2012, 10:37
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And don't tell me to forget it because you know a strip of land where it isn't happening
We already went through this and your Agenda 21 map, which I showed, in detail, is a work of fiction. That you insist on clinging to They come for a corridor here, a corridor there, and then they come for everything in between in the face of empirical evidence to the contrary makes a mockery of your self-identification as a conservative. There's no conservative principle that blindly accepts that Agenda 21 map as reality; no conservative principle in play by stating Clinton stole so much land in the west it should have been called his personal war against America; no conservative principle by claiming Humans will nearly go extinct in Maine. It's radically hysterical propaganda.
As for Maine, and property rights, it appears stealing the land left and right is more appropriately connected to corporate giant Monsanto than any feared Agenda 21 conspiracy. These farmers face the threat not just from Monsanto, but their friends in high places:
Justice Clarence Thomas served as an attorney for Monsanto from 1976-1979 and has failed to recuse himself from other cases involving the corporation.
Now that we've seen a real case of property rights issues in Maine, let's try and find some egregious examples of stealing the land left and right in Maine due to ICLIE membership in local municipalities. This website by
Maine Republic: Stop Agenda 21 is well representative of what I found.
Agenda 21 seeks for the government to curtail your freedom to travel as you please, own a gas-powered car, live in suburbs or rural areas, and raise a family. Furthermore, it would eliminate your private property rights through eminent domain.
They provide no support for these rather generic claims. Now, I have no problem with opposition to Agenda 21 and no problem with communities withdrawing from ICLIE for whatever reason. My problem is the blatant dishonesty by presenting hypothetical speculations and projections as if they are actually happening now, and using fear-based propaganda to demonize the rather innocuous concept of sustainable growth, a concept that needs to be addressed whether there's ICLIE membership or not. Claiming that Humans will nearly go extinct in Maine takes you out of the mix in regard to any intelligent discussion of this issue.
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| 175 | Boldwin
ID: 49030519 Sun, Feb 05, 2012, 14:05
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Maybe in a more enightened administration we can get the EPA to recognize people from Maine as an endangered subspecies maine homo sapiens and forestall all the 'willing seller' zoning forced buyouts.
Invited to give a one hour speech with questions afterwards, the speech they wouldn't let me finish. The Delphi Technique facilitator forced him right out the building.
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| 176 | Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916 Mon, Feb 06, 2012, 12:20
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Tom DeWeese having his "presentation" cut short has nothing to do with any Delphi technique, a technique used at public hearings, not small, private business gatherings with Fortune 500 CFOs. Whoever booked DeWeese obviously didn't do the proper due diligence, and didn't realize he was an Alex Jones wannabe who would insult the intelligence of a room full of very intelligent people.
The sad thing about all this is that DeWeese makes the same mistakes Boldwin does, which ultimately renders his presentation futile and dismissed. He fails to present facts and wanders aimlessly into wildly speculative scenarios that completely take the focus off the subject matter.
There is legitimacy to the subject matter, especially in California, which is losing business by leaps and bounds thanks to government regulations, some of which can be tied to Agenda 21 and ICLIE concepts and components There is legitimacy in addressing zoning codes which strip people of their property rights as illustrated in the Antelope Valley incidents.
It's unfortunate that the legitimacy is usurped with hysterical claims like the Agenda 21 map; the stealing of land left and right; every land use and zoning issue in the country is already determined by the UN globalist conspiracy; humans will be herded into cities away from suburbs and rural areas; gas-powered cars will be outlawed; and any mention of "sustainable growth" is proof of the menacing conspiracy which aims to enslave mankind.
These drama queen speculations play well to a very small minority, and are counter-productive to the vast majority of the public. It has nothing to do with stealth tyranny. It has to do with people hearing things they know are obvious distortions of reality and ignoring it all together. That makes it all the harder when there are land use, zoning and development issues that need to be carefully examined and debated.
Tom DeWeese and Boldwin aren't interested in examination and debate. They want to dictate to you, then tell you how stupid and naive you are for not agreeing. It's an ineffective way to draw support for any position.
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| 177 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915 Mon, Jun 04, 2012, 13:57
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Bloomberg News reports that the default rate on the green energy loans like Solyndra's is about a third of what was projected--under 4%, in fact.
Probably worth remembering as Team Romney cherry-picks its way through the Obama record.
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| 178 | Boldwin
ID: 43492714 Mon, Jun 04, 2012, 22:35
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Yeah, let's not forget who's guarding the chicken coop and counting the chickens.
Most of those companies are campaign finance bundling crony capitalist friends of Obama.
One was just revealed to have been using government subsidies to buy products from itself over international borders.
This is the sort of whitewash the 'lapdog' media puts out there to cover for the fact that Obama's admin has been illegally stonewalling congress his whole administration on this matter so that we really don't have any oversight and reliable accounting over this green boondoggle.
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| 179 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915 Tue, Jun 05, 2012, 00:58
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Most of those companies are campaign finance bundling crony capitalist friends of Obama.
Mixing up your memes again.
Show me a "real conservative" who has a company applying for green job loans.
Meanwhile, all you can do is cherry pick.
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| 180 | Boldwin
ID: 43492714 Tue, Jun 05, 2012, 06:47
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You act as if there is anything unusual to find Obama in bed with a corrupt businessman. No more so than finding Putin in bed with a corrupt oil oligarch who was handed his privilege by the mob in power.
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| 181 | Boldwin
ID: 2664163 Sat, Jul 14, 2012, 13:23
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President Obama’s heavy-handed regulation of the booming old-energy economy—the moratorium on offshore drilling following the BP spoil, the decision to block the Keystone XL Pipeline, and the prospect of a fracking ban—and his embrace of green-energy policies has played well in the solidly Democratic post-industrial coastal economies that he also depends on for fund-raising. But it’s left him with few friends in the energy belt that spans the Great Plains, the Gulf Coast, Appalachia and now some parts of the old rustbelt, despite his election-year claims of an “all-of-the-above” energy policy.
It’s a far cry from Bill Clinton, whose close ties with Great Plains and Gulf Coast Democrats and energy producers there helped him twice carry Louisiana, Kentucky and West Virginia—all states that appear to be solidly behind Romney this year. [which makes Obama's phrase 'winning the future' even more interesting - B]
Today, Democratic senators in regions that depend on fossil fuels are becoming an endangered species. Over the past two years, Virginia’s Jim Webb and Byron Dorgan and Kent Conrad, both from booming North Dakota, have announced their retirement or retired, while Montana’s Jon Tester has distanced himself from the president as he faces a difficult re-election fight. And that diminishing presence in turn means less intra-party resistance to any potential second-term plans to cut the burgeoning fossil-fuel business to size.
The administration’s hostility to the dirty business of energy, and the sector’s fear of new bans or regulations in a second Obama term that would gut the industry were perhaps best captured by the then-EPA administrator who claimed Administration policy was to “crucify” fossil fuel. ---
Sixty-percent of the electricity in Los Angeles, a key bastion of Obama support, comes from coal-fired plants in Utah and Arizona; much of the natural gas that provides nearly half of the power for California’s grid is imported.
Nowhere is the element of choice inherent in energy policy more evident than in California, home to five of the nation’s twelve largest oil fields and energy reserves equal to those of Nigeria, the world’s tenth-largest producer. As high-paying energy jobs swell payrolls in the Great Plains, the Intermountain West and parts of the Gulf, the Golden State has double-digit unemployment, a collapsed inland economy and a series of bankrupt municipalities. Amidst a great national energy boom, California’s energy production has remained stunted even as the state’s draconian “renewable” energy mandates are slated to drive up its already high electricity rates. The state’s high cost of energy has impacted industry: despite its vast human and natural resources, the Golden State, with 12 percent of the nation’s population received barely 2 percent of the country’s manufacturing expansions last year.
Such inattention to California’s resources may be popular in wealthy precincts of Silicon Valley, San Francisco and west Los Angeles, but the state’s green approach has helped place traditionally manufacturing-oriented communities such as Oakland, east Los Angeles, San Bernardino and Stockton in deep distress. Despite central California’s vast deposits of oil and gas, unemployment rates in some oil-rich areas there are over 15 and sometimes even 20 percent.
“As economic forecaster Bill Watkins recently told an audience in hard-hit Santa Maria: ‘If you were in Texas, you’d be rich.’” How bankrupt does California government and the underwater California homeowner need to get before this becomes an over-riding political issue?
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