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Subject: Cult of Personality Posted by: Baldwin - [201045320] Wed, Nov 05, 2008, 17:54 No marxist leader can be complete without a 'cult of personality' and Obama is no exception. Thus the commissioning of tyrant worshipping artist Shepard Fairey. Fairey's company is called appropriately Obey Giant. [ostensibly Andre the giant but...] His website prominantly offers Propaganda Engineering in flashing script. Myself, I am not into worshipful respect for mass murdering tyrants. | |||||||
| 34 | Tree ID: 51011420 Mon, Nov 10, 2008, 23:39 | the more posts i read like post 33, the more i realize why some muslims silliness like that, and they just go into a head chopping frenzy... | ||||||
| 36 | Baldwin ID: 361056125 Wed, Nov 12, 2008, 07:19 | You wonder if the last phrase in that blockquote overstates...until you read Trees next 'contribution' and look at him surrounding himself with bullies and violence. | ||||||
| 37 | sarge33rd ID: 76442923 Wed, Nov 12, 2008, 08:27 |
frankly Baldwin, to me, that underlined sentence applies rather well to what I have seen lately from your own posts. More preachy of late, I'd suggest that you fit fairly well, that statement. | ||||||
| 38 | Tree ID: 121035316 Wed, Nov 12, 2008, 09:24 |
until you read Trees next 'contribution' and look at him surrounding himself with bullies and violence. bullies and violence? right, right. that's exactly who i surround myself with. you're the one with a long, deep history of blood on your hands - much of it from MY people. i can't wait to see you in the afterlife, because you're going to be even more miserable - bring sun screen, because it's going to be warm where you're going pal. | ||||||
| 39 | Pancho Villa ID: 51546319 Wed, Nov 12, 2008, 10:27 |
From the link in #33: Soviet dictator Vladimir Lenin had total contempt for human life....He murdered millions From a Lenin speech in 1919: Anti-Semitism means spreading enmity towards the Jews. When the accursed tsarist monarchy was living its last days it tried to incite ignorant workers and peasants against the Jews. The tsarist police, in alliance with the landowners and the capitalists, organised pogroms against the Jews. The landowners and capitalists tried to divert the hatred of the workers and peasants who were tortured by want against the Jews. In other countries, too, we often see the capitalists fomenting hatred against the Jews in order to blind the workers, to divert their attention from the real enemy of the working people, capital. Hatred towards the Jews persists only in those countries where slavery to the landowners and capitalists has created abysmal ignorance among the workers and peasants. Only the most ignorant and downtrodden people can believe the lies and slander that are spread about the Jews. This is a survival of ancient feudal times, when the priests burned heretics at the stake, when the peasants lived in slavery, and when the people were crushed and inarticulate. This ancient, feudal ignorance is passing away; the eyes of the people are being opened. It is not the Jews who are the enemies of the working people. The enemies of the workers are the capitalists of all countries. Among the Jews there are working people, and they form the majority. They are our brothers, who, like us, are oppressed by capital; they are our comrades in the struggle for socialism. Among the Jews there are kulaks, exploiters and capitalists, just as there are among the Russians, and among people of all nations. The capitalists strive to sow and foment hatred between workers of different faiths, different nations and different races. Those who do not work are kept in power by the power and strength of capital. Rich Jews, like rich Russians, and the rich in all countries, are in alliance to oppress, crush, rob and disunite the workers. Shame on accursed tsarism which tortured and persecuted the Jews. Shame on those who foment hatred towards the Jews, who foment hatred towards other nations. link In the interest of balance: In September 1918, during the Red Terror, 25 former tsarist ministers and high civil servants along with 765 so-called White Guards were shot in Moscow. Lenin personally signed the execution lists.[62] Despite this attempt by Lenin to stop them the Whites continued active and indulged in a massive anti-Red terror and also pogroms against the Jews. For instance the Whites killed 115,000 Ukrainian Jews in 1919 alone.[63] According to historian Christopher Read the numbers killed by the White forces were on a comparable scale to the Bolsheviks and probably can be numbered in hundreds of thousands. Now, because I point this out doesn't mean that much of the link in #33 isn't applicable as it defines totalitarianism as interpreted by some Marxist ideologues. But the author's statement that Lenin had total contempt for human life is a dumbed down opinion that reflects a limited and absolutist view that in no way attempts to honestly analyze Lenin and the chaos surrounding the Russian Revolution, Civil War and formation of the Soviet Union. It ignores that Lenin initiated and supervised the devising and realisation of the GOELRO plan, the first-ever Soviet project for national economic recovery and development. He was very concerned about creating a free universal health care system for all, the rights of women, and teaching the illiterate Russian people to read and write. It can even be disputed that Lenin was a Soviet dictator. After the assassination attempt that left a bullet in his neck in 1918, Lenin was more a figurehead from a hospital bed than day to day dictating policy. By the time the Soviet Union actually became a reality in 1922, Lenin's health was so poor that Stalin, Trotsky and a few others were calling the shots while continuing to acknowledge Lenin as the original Bolshevik leader, but hardly a dictator. It's hard for me to take seriously an author whose portrayal of Lenin is reduced to a soundbite, and a dishonest one at that. If this is how you think Russian history should be taught, it's no wonder your campaign against current university history curriculum is widely ignored. It's not based on truth. | ||||||
| 40 | Baldwin ID: 361056125 Wed, Nov 12, 2008, 13:51 | Marxist Leninism has no respect for individual rights whatsoever. | ||||||
| 41 | Pancho Villa ID: 51546319 Thu, Nov 13, 2008, 10:32 |
Marxist Leninism has no respect for individual rights whatsoever. Is that in-depth analysis an attempt to counter my post #39, or simply whimsical musings of a default position? The author didn't state: Soviet dictator Josef Stalin had total contempt for human life....He murdered millions The author made that claim of Lenin. The statement would be undeniable concerning Stalin, but Lenin and his legacy is much more complex to simply relegate it to such a simplistic characterization. There have been discussions in this forum lately about history courses. I would be appalled if either of my children took a course in Russian history that dumbed down events from 1917-1924 as this author has done. Your statement that Marxist Leninism has no respect for individual rights whatsoever is at least a topic which can lead to healthy debate, even framed as subjectively as it is. But saying that Lenin murdered millions is historical revisionism. Even the execution of the tsar and his family was undertaken without Lenin's knowledge, although when he learned of it after the fact, he apparently approved. Lenin didn't murder millions of Russians who died during the Russian famine of 1921-22, although his policies were a contributing, even a primary factor, albeit unintentionally( policies that Mao should have learned from but didn't). Lenin didn't murder hundreds of thousands of White Russians during the Russian Civil War of 1918-1920. The White Russians were armed and killing Bolsheviks as well, a condition that doesn't constitute murder. This is history. Perhaps you want your children learning a skewed version, in which case you should teach them yourselves instead of relying on a school system which, in a perfect world, would lay out the facts and let the student form their own analysis. It's quite likely that they will conclude that Marxist Leninism has no respect for individual rights whatsoever. But they need the entire story in order to reach that conclusion. | ||||||
| 42 | Baldwin ID: 471049135 Thu, Nov 13, 2008, 16:13 |
You do need some reminders about Lenin. Terror is not a respecter of individual human rights. | ||||||
| 43 | Perm Dude ID: 201051315 Thu, Nov 13, 2008, 16:25 |
Your response to PV's post about making sure your history includes some context (in response to your approving link to a site that "Lenin murdered millions") is to link to a website with out-of-context Lenin quotes on "terror?" Lenin, of course, arose because the Tsar refused to be anything other than an absolute monarch. Wrong he turned out to be, but in many other situations you'd be cheering on his words and actions as that of a freedom fighter standing up against the oppression of a dictator. Stalin, of course, was evil. And communism as a whole is a soul-sucking political system doomed to fail on its own merits. But all this is far too much context for you. | ||||||
| 44 | Baldwin ID: 471049135 Thu, Nov 13, 2008, 16:28 |
“We need the real, nation-wide terror which reinvigorates the country and through which the Great French Revolution achieved glory” - Lenin [face it, the french version of freemasonry loves terror] “The goal of socialism is communism.” - Lenin [try explaining that on the poliboard] “Give us the child for 8 years and it will be a Bolshevik forever” - Bill Ayer's favorite Lenin quote “It is true that liberty is precious - so precious that it must be rationed” - Lenin [his view of all human rights actually] | ||||||
| 45 | Baldwin ID: 471049135 Thu, Nov 13, 2008, 16:30 | I think anyone trying to seperate Lenin's beliefs from the results of those beliefs are the ones who don't respect context. | ||||||
| 46 | Perm Dude ID: 201051315 Thu, Nov 13, 2008, 16:35 |
Riiiight. So contextual respect means not trying to discern meaning and intent for individuals? Individuals at the beginning of a movement can be blamed, then, for all that follows? Sins of the father, etc? We're very far afield from your misuse of some wrestling posters... | ||||||
| 47 | Baldwin ID: 471049135 Thu, Nov 13, 2008, 18:00 |
Lenin explicitly encouraged state sponsored terrorism against his own people. Mao did so. In fact one of the FF hinted as much, fortunately not a consensus sentiment here thankfully. But yes, words and philosophies have meanings and consequenses. | ||||||
| 48 | Perm Dude ID: 201051315 Thu, Nov 13, 2008, 18:42 |
It was a revolution, Baldwin. But war is war, right? Until it is started by a Republican. | ||||||
| 49 | Baldwin ID: 471049135 Thu, Nov 13, 2008, 19:31 |
Mao and Lenin encouraged a permanent war of terror on their own people. No, calling it revolution doesn't make it all better. Before you get all cozy feeling please do read 'Gulag Archepelego' and realize how packed the work/death camps were with people pledging their love for the revolution/marxism/the cult-of-personality of the moment, and cursing the 'mistake' that had landed them there. See you there. | ||||||
| 50 | Boldwin ID: 1810312617 Tue, Dec 02, 2008, 16:30 |
"So it might be worthwhile to consider Zizek's [or any other marxist monster's] work as if he means it--" The West all too often excuses and refuses to take the mosterous statement or fact at face value. Nervous laughter trailing off into amnesia is not a proper response to evil. Ideas, philosophies, manifestos of the intellectual influential have consequences. - B Grasp if you only would the full significance of utopianism which adamantly rejects the concept of individual human rights. | ||||||
| 51 | Perm Dude ID: 291115120 Tue, Dec 02, 2008, 16:42 |
...which adamantly rejects the concept of individual human rights. You're posting this in response to a book review about America's use of torture on prisoners? This is some kind of joke, yes? The problem with torture is not that those who oppose it effectively prevent the guilty from getting punished through it, but that those who are not guilty of anything at all are being punished. Torture, particularly the widespread use cheered on by you in America's prisons, is the result of wholesale rejection of the rights of those being held there. | ||||||
| 52 | Boldwin ID: 1810312617 Tue, Dec 02, 2008, 18:07 |
You have lost your mind, PD. The problem with torture is that it is in and of itself unconscionable and unacceptibly damages all parties involved. I have never supported it and your charge makes you certifiable. For someone who throws up the strawman flag at every argument, whether remotely applicable or not, you sure use it yourself. Just read the piece on it's own merits and quit fanticizing about my motives. | ||||||
| 53 | Boxman ID: 571114225 Tue, Dec 02, 2008, 18:25 |
Torture, particularly the widespread use cheered on by you in America's prisons Which cases of prison torture does Boldwin favor according to you? I'm sure you'll be able to cite things from him on these forums to back that up. | ||||||
| 54 | Boldwin ID: 1810312617 Tue, Dec 02, 2008, 23:58 | Perhaps he is confusing me with Tree who wished I would get imprisoned and raped. | ||||||
| 55 | Boxman ID: 571114225 Wed, Dec 03, 2008, 06:06 | What's interesting, or ignorant take your pick, about what PD said is "America's prisons". That implies more than just Gitmo. | ||||||
| 56 | Tree ID: 22115238 Wed, Dec 03, 2008, 09:59 |
That implies more than just Gitmo. do you really think Gitmo is the only "secret prison" the US has? | ||||||
| 57 | Perm Dude ID: 49112139 Wed, Dec 03, 2008, 10:23 |
Will respond to these later today (swamped at work). Just very quickly: Yes, I meant GITMO and all the other not-so-secret prisons under American control. Later, we'll see if Baldwin will finally admit Ann Coulter is wrong about something--a first for him. | ||||||
| 58 | Boldwin ID: 1810312617 Wed, Dec 03, 2008, 12:41 | Last I checked, she wasn't a JW. | ||||||
| 59 | Baldwin ID: 1904278 Wed, Jan 28, 2009, 20:02 | “mercilessly destroy anyone who, by his deeds or his thoughts — yes, by his thoughts — threatens the unity of the socialist state.” - Stalin | ||||||
| 60 | DWetzel ID: 278201415 Thu, Jan 29, 2009, 12:49 |
Wow, take out the word "socialist" and you'd have a perfect description of the Rove/Coulter/Limbaugh playbook. Apparently, Stalin was right. | ||||||
| 61 | Baldwin ID: 180202819 Thu, Jan 29, 2009, 16:14 |
The conservative side doesn't need to stifle debate by insisting on a global Unanimocracy. | ||||||
| 62 | Perm Dude ID: 450312914 Thu, Jan 29, 2009, 16:18 |
More projecting by Baldwin. "The conservative side" is now "the conservative slice" as it renders itself smaller and smaller. | ||||||
| 63 | Baldwin ID: 180202819 Thu, Jan 29, 2009, 16:34 |
You are confusing Dem talking points memos with reality. Yes there is a tremendous concerted effort to freeze and isolate conservatives but it certainly isn't coming from the conservatives. You are such a servile slave to Saul Alinsky now days, PD. Any day now you will forget your name and discontinue all sustinance that doesn't taste of shoe leather. | ||||||
| 64 | tree on the treo ID: 236113120 Thu, Jan 29, 2009, 16:46 |
this is the third thread in a row where I've wondered what its like living in baldwin's brain, then went fleeing quickly for the exact. either you are the perfect devil's advocate, or you are so clueless, blind, and naive, that it is indescribible... | ||||||
| 65 | Baldwin ID: 180202819 Thu, Jan 29, 2009, 17:01 |
As a pertinent example, behold Rule #12 of Saul Alinsky's Rules For Radicals:RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it." Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.)Currently the biggest target is Rush Limbaugh, as they try and seperate republican legislators from Rush and his supporters. Another example would be liberals on this board who boo instead of honestly debate. | ||||||
| 66 | Tree ID: 1311551521 Thu, Jan 29, 2009, 19:50 |
Yes there is a tremendous concerted effort to freeze and isolate conservatives but it certainly isn't coming from the conservatives. right. i've never seen a group of people so quick to say "well, yea, but you're not a TRUE Conservative, so we're turning our backs on you!". Another example would be liberals on this board who boo instead of honestly debate. look in the mirror. you've had plenty more dishonest posts than honest ones in the past several months. and when you're caught in another lie, you disappear, turn tail and change your argument, or simply keep on repeating the lie, believing that if you do so enough, it will become true. | ||||||
| 67 | Baldwin ID: 180202819 Thu, Jan 29, 2009, 22:48 | When people ignore you, you've got to stop thinking it is because you've won a debate. They ignore you because you are not worthy of a response. | ||||||
| 68 | Tree ID: 1311551521 Thu, Jan 29, 2009, 23:47 | Baldwin, your history here of walking away from a discussion after you distorted the truth or were proven wrong, is large. | ||||||
| 69 | Perm Dude ID: 55072921 Fri, Jan 30, 2009, 00:00 |
The GOP efforts to purify itself has reached a fever pitch, Baldwin. And you are part of the cheering squad, telling us that conservatives who buck the party line aren't worthy of being called conservatives. Democrats aren't separating any Republicans from the herd. Do you know why? Because they don't have to. Voters have handed the GOP their asses the last two elections. And they have done so not because individual members of the GOP have turned into Democrats (if they did, this would actually be in their favore). Voters are turning out Republicans because the GOP had all the power to make and implement their own policies and voters realized that they didn't want what was happening anymore. To blame any of this one Democrats "isolating" conservatives is absolute nonsense. It genuinely doesn't make any sense. It flows from a sense of party unity which overshadows personal political philosophies to the point of blaming anything bad that happens to the party on not being unified enough. It is a recipe for irrelevance. | ||||||
| 70 | Baldwin ID: 180202819 Fri, Jan 30, 2009, 04:59 |
The fact that the pendulum eventually swings is no excuse to see Dr Kavorkian for a cure. Turning into democrat-lite is the proven road to defeat for republicans. They will get beaten everytime they try it. Listening to dems for advice instead of Limbaugh is a sure road to defeat. Republicans were in the wilderness for forty years listening to the hat-in-hand Bob Micheals of the party. Only when they asserted their principals and manned up under Gingerich did they climb up and stand upright. Yeah, PD, they should become the party of milktoasts and floormats. Pathetic advice. The republican party should turn it's back on it's base. Yeah right. You are selling arsenic laden bottles of snakeoil. | ||||||
| 71 | Tree ID: 1311551521 Fri, Jan 30, 2009, 06:43 |
Listening to dems for advice instead of Limbaugh is a sure road to defeat. when Rush Limbaugh is your Moses, the promised land you'll be led to is irrelevance. Rush's hate mongering ultimately has done little good for the Republicans. sure, it got them some nice power for a few years, but it was power they abused, and squanders, and rode right into decisive defeat and overturning of their policies. keeping it up that same tact is disaster, as the American people have spoken quite loudly on this. | ||||||
| 72 | Perm Dude ID: 55072921 Fri, Jan 30, 2009, 10:17 |
Republicans seem to be of the belief that compromise or dealing with Democrats on any level means they become floormats. No confidence in their ideas, it seems. Having no ideas while strutting around like peacocks will make for some strange sideshows the next few years. Call us when your party grows up, Baldwin. | ||||||
| 73 | Baldwin ID: 180202819 Fri, Jan 30, 2009, 12:01 |
No confidence in their ideas So in your mind, caving on principles equates to confidence in your ideas. Who really do you think is simpleminded enuff to accept your advice? | ||||||
| 74 | tree on the treo ID: 236113120 Fri, Jan 30, 2009, 12:30 |
its not an issue of simple minded, but rather the opposite. who is smart enough to stand for their principles, but also smart enough to understand when compromise is the better part of valor. and smart enough to understand that not compromising likely means the death of the republican party, and at that point, their principles mean squat. | ||||||
| 75 | Boldwin ID: 43492714 Tue, Jun 05, 2012, 22:25 |
This time around, perhaps not so much. Donors who gave $200 to Barack Obama in 2008 but have not yet in 2012, by location. The darkness of the dot corresponds to the number of drop-off donors in that zip code. - by Bonfire of the Absurdities | ||||||
| 76 | Frick ID: 14082314 Wed, Jun 06, 2012, 07:33 |
Doesn't Obama already have more than double Romney? And Obama has barely started campaigning. If he needs more money and asks, it will start to come in. | ||||||
| 77 | Boldwin ID: 43492714 Wed, Jun 06, 2012, 09:00 | Nope | ||||||
| 78 | Boldwin ID: 1557712 Sat, Jun 09, 2012, 18:58 |
'Obama Girl' refuses to endorse Obama the second time around. So fickle. | ||||||
| 79 | Boldwin ID: 2664163 Wed, Jul 11, 2012, 11:24 |
I don't get the appeal, myself. | ||||||
| 80 | Boldwin ID: 38202019 Thu, Sep 20, 2012, 21:49 |
 OK, it’s not a flag, but a $35 poster now available from the Obama campaign store. Hip 20-somethings can stare longingly as it fades on the wall of their childhood bedrooms! | ||||||
| 81 | Boldwin ID: 1210341416 Wed, Nov 14, 2012, 18:21 |
We won! - Communist Party, USA Yup. | ||||||
| 82 | Tree ID: 710581417 Wed, Nov 14, 2012, 18:58 |
once again, you didn't even read your own link. not once in that article was Commmunism even mentioned. the article did praise the successes of this election: Democrats also held the Senate. Elizabeth Warren won with a good margin in Massachusetts. Claire McKaskill won in Missouri beating Akin-he of the legitimate rape comment. Joe Donnelly also won in Indiana beating Republican Mourdock. Warren won by eight percentage points. Donnelly won in Indiana by 6 percentage points. Sherrod Brown won re-election. Tammy Baldwin won becoming the first openly gay Senator. Democrats picked up seats in the Senate. Progressives like you worked their hearts out all over America for our people, our country, our president, and progressive Democrats. We fought and beat the tea party, the oligarchs and massive rich, Karl Rove’s strategy, ALEC, the Koch Brothers, and all those who would tear down democracy and destroy the middle class and the labor movement. Women spoke strongly. Latinos spoke strongly. The LGBT community spoke strongly. And AFRICAN-AMERICANS fought back against the neo-poll taxes and disenfranchisement. but, when you're filled with hate for anything different than yourself, it's easy to see why you're too blind to read. | ||||||
| 83 | Pancho Villa ID: 59645318 Wed, Nov 14, 2012, 19:02 |
when you're filled with hate for anything different than yourself Disagree. There's plenty of evidence for self-loathing. | ||||||
| 84 | Mith ID: 98342014 Wed, Nov 14, 2012, 19:08 |
once again, you didn't even read your own link. There's nothing in the two short lines of post 81 to suggest he didn't read his link. If you weren't aware, People's World is closely associated with Communist Party USA. | ||||||
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