Posted by: Boldwin
- [191531310] Mon, Feb 14, 2011, 12:15
If Republicans want to win in 2012, here is their candidate. Anything less will not do. And that comes from someone who just loves Newt.
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This all the while libs here deny Obama is obstructing oil drilling and in fact is claimed to be successfully expanding it.
318
Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915 Tue, Feb 28, 2012, 18:12
Numbers don't lie. No matter how you try to spin it.
You should be asking yourself how important your point is to you, when the facts show otherwise. A wise person would silently drop it, and move on to points they can actually make without ignoring the data on the topic.
319
Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916 Tue, Feb 28, 2012, 18:25
The same technique that works in Bakken works there.
Water is mixed with sand and some chemicals and then pumped at high pressure into the well bore to shatter the Bakken shale formation, which can be as hard as a driveway. The “fracking” creates fissures that free up trapped oil and natural gas to flow up to the well bore.
The Green River oil shale is completely different. There is no trapped oil to flow anywhere. The oil is actually part of the rock. Had the links in #287 actually been read, well, didn't even need to read the links, as I capsulized it:
Traditionally, the shale has been surface mined like coal and heated until an oil-like substance called kerogen turns to liquid and oozes out.
The new SITU technique as described in the 2nd link:
the In-situ Conversion Process (ICP) accelerates this natural process of oil and gas maturation by literally tens of millions of years. This is accomplished by slow sub-surface heating of petroleum source rock containing kerogen, the precursor to oil and gas. This acceleration of natural processes is achieved by drilling holes into the resource, inserting electric resistance heaters into those heater holes and heating the subsurface to around 650-700F, over a 3 to 4 year period.
“During this time, very dense oil and gas is expelled from the kerogen and undergoes a series of changes. These changes include the shearing of lighter components from the dense carbon compounds, concentration of available hydrogen into these lighter compounds, and changing of phase of those lighter, more hydrogen rich compounds from liquid to gas.
In gaseous phase, these lighter fractions are now far more mobile and can move in the subsurface through existing or induced fractures to conventional producing wells from which they are brought to the surface. The process results in the production of about 65 to 70% of the original “carbon” in place in the subsurface.
“The ICP process is clearly energy-intensive, as its driving force is the injection of heat into the subsurface. However, for each unit of energy used to generate power to provide heat for the ICP process, when calculated on a life cycle basis, about 3.5 units of energy are produced and treated for sales to the consumer market. This energy efficiency compares favorably with many conventional heavy oil fields that for decades have used steam injection to help coax more oil out of the reservoir. The produced hydrocarbon mix is very different from traditional crude oils. It is much lighter and contains almost no heavy ends.
“However, because the ICP process occurs below ground, special care must be taken to keep the products of the process from escaping into groundwater flows. Shell has adapted a long recognized and established mining and construction ice wall technology to isolate the active ICP area and thus accomplish these objectives and to safe guard the environment. For years, freezing of groundwater to form a subsurface ice barrier has been used to isolate areas being tunneled and to reduce natural water flows into mines. Shell has successfully tested the freezing technology and determined that the development of a freeze wall prevents the loss of contaminants from the heated zone.”
The same technique that works in Bakken works there.
I don't think we can chalk that statement up to intentionally dishonest, so stunningly ignorant, especially when I had previously provided the information must apply.
you don't know anything more about Green River oil shale than PD does about Marcellus natural gas
Could be, but you apparently are happy knowing nothing about it.
320
Boldwin
ID: 49030519 Wed, Feb 29, 2012, 16:06
You have no idea how much googling I've done and the in depth industry sites I've delved into...
“When kerogen cooks out of the Bakken shale it experiences an intense volumetric increase of about 114 to 170 percent,” Stockton said. “There’s great energy stored in that volume increase and it wants to fracture the rock, mainly along bedding planes.”
I don't see the difference. That doesn't tell me, 'Oh Bakken oil is much easier, it's right on top and you just have to crack the shale.' No. It says kerogen cooks out of the Bakken shale, it is part of the shale in both cases and has to be removed by heat in both cases. Now I will admit I have finally run into the term 'Kerogen Maturity' buried in 200 page PDF's. I do not know if there is some mystery there that rescues your position. I will also admit I've always wondered why I've never run into the ice wall process as part of the Bakken production. That doesn't mean there is any difference between Bakken shale and GR shale either. I assumed it had to do with unique formation details relative to aquafers. But again there are thirty different techniques to get kerogen from shale.
From what I've seen Bakken shale production isn't so much easier than Green River that it just takes fracking. It also uses heat. For example in situ internal combustion pyrolysis. Reactive fluids. Electro-fracking. In one process they use explosives and then start a controlled fire underground. All that is Bakken extraction.
The Green River oil shale is completely different. There is no trapped oil to flow anywhere. - PV
This is still entirely in your own words. Blockquote me something from an industry site that explains it that way.
...The difference between shales still hasn't been clearly explained in any industry site I've personally found or seen linked to here and if you had all this down previously you would have been explaining the difference between Colorado shale and Bakken Shale a long time ago in this thread.
Weren't you going to entertain me some more with your private theory on trapped oil in the Bakken?
I can't find that theory anywhere else and I wouldn't want to be stunningly ignorant or anything.
322
Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916 Wed, Mar 07, 2012, 12:12
your private theory on trapped oil in the Bakken
What private theory?
The answer is the next sentence from your link in #320, which is curiously omitted:
He noted that the horizontal fractures can be a huge factor in terms of where the reservoir is and where it’s best.
Also from your link:
In early 2009, Vector Seismic formed a consortium to evaluate the seismic signature of fractured reservoirs in the Middle Bakken. This ultimately led the company to determine that differences in the seismic image of shear waves over producing wells vs. dry holes in the Bakken formation are key for drilling success.
key word - reservoir
In the Utah/Colorado shale, there is no where the reservoir is on the huge scale you insist has Saudi potential. Sure, there exists these features in the formation, but they're considered more traditional drilling. The shale under discussion has to be heated out of the rock in order to create a reservoir. And please show me where in the Bakken they are, as explained in my #319, drilling holes into the resource, inserting electric resistance heaters into those heater holes and heating the subsurface to around 650-700F, over a 3 to 4 year period.
Please show me where in the Bakken they are using ice wall technology...freezing of groundwater to form a subsurface ice barrier has been used to isolate areas being tunneled and to reduce natural water flows into mines.
Back to your link in #320, we learn that there's different techniques used even in different sections of the Bakken, depending on the soil and rock:
The widespread Upper Devonian-Lower Mississippian Bakken formation is comprised of an upper and lower shale member and a mixed siliciclastic carbonate middle member, which is ordinarily referred to as a dolomitic sand or sandy dolomite.
This middle section is the target of the drill bits that ordinarily go down about 10,000 feet vertically before veering horizontally into the brittle dolomite, where multi-stage fracing is used to more efficiently produce the oil.
There's no "gotcha" in pointing out that heating and kerogen are involved in both areas. And it certainly doesn't detail the massive differences in topography between a remote, rugged, roadless, water-starved mountainous region and a flat, much less arid, farm-oriented region. Those topographical differences alone make the Bakken a more economical and much easier extraction process than the Green River formation.
Finally, one more item you conveniently ignored:
In the Klamath River dam removal controversy, you insist is a UN Agenda 21 plot to strip local farmers and ranchers of their freedoms, yet you have shown absolutely no concern for farmers and ranchers in the Bakken or Green River regions who are adversely affected by dreams of Saudi large extractions of energy that even the most ardent proponents admit will cause large scale degradation of their properties.
323
Boldwin
ID: 49030519 Wed, Mar 07, 2012, 12:26
I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe there is anything different between Bakken and Green River shale except the relationship between the oil [kerogen] bearing formation and the ground water table and the deep water aquifer.
---
There is a huge difference between getting rich off leasing your farm to oil producers, and getting bankrupted off your farmland to save local populations of non-native salmon.
Not to mention there is a huge difference between deliberately destroying monumental existing sources of totally clean pollution-free power...which is the definition of batshit crazy, especially for the eco-conscious...
...and developing the USA into a bigger oil producer than the Saudis and becoming energy independent.
324
Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916 Wed, Mar 07, 2012, 12:54
except the relationship between the oil [kerogen] bearing formation and the ground water table and the deep water aquifer.
And the reservoirs, all which lead to different techniques and all that show the Bakken fields to be much easier extraction areas than the Green River.
getting bankrupted off your farmland to save local populations of non-native salmon.
You have yet to show one example, so we'll chalk that up to unwarranted hysteria.
325
Boldwin
ID: 49030519 Wed, Mar 07, 2012, 13:14
Without irrigation, it's a desert. You figure out what it meant to the farmers.
[An] artificially created regulatory crisis that has been imposed on the Upper Klamath basin.… In my entire professional career," he said, "I have never been involved in a decision-making process that was as closed, segregated, and poor as we now have in the Klamath basin. The constructive science-based processes I have been involved in elsewhere have involved an honest and open dialogue among people having scientific expertise. Hypotheses are developed, then rigorously tested against empirical evidence. None of those elements of good science characterize the decision-making process for the Klamath Project.
The pretext for the fiasco was to save the endanged longnosed suckerOne problem, it wasn't endangered.
In his testimony before Congress, Vogel sharply criticized the USFWS for its grossly unacceptable census of the sucker fish to justify its listing as an endangered species. He claimed that, “three years after the sucker listing, it also became apparent that the assumptions concerning the status of shortnose suckers and Lost River suckers in the Lost River/Clear Lake watershed were in error.” The more complete census in 1991 showed tens of thousands of these fish. Had that information been made public, the suckerfish may not have even been listed.
The next pretext was that the longnosed sucker needed high water levels.
One problem. Contrary to that [unscientific] recommendation, high water levels coincide with large fish kills.
“All the empirical evidence and material demonstrate that huge fish kills have occurred when Upper Klamath Lake was near average or above average elevations, but not at low elevations,” asserted Vogel. He even said he warned the USFWS that there would be huge fish kills if the Upper Klamath Lake elevations were maintained at higher than historical levels. That’s exactly what happened in 1971, 1986, 1995, 1996, and 1997.
In spite of this overwhelming scientific evidence, the NMFS recommend high lake levels to Judge Akin by “selectively reporting only information to support the agency’s concept of higher lake levels.”
Dishonestly they then used the fish kills they knowingly and deliberately caused to create hysteria to pass the recovery plan.
Another pretext was Coho Salmon
The plan also hinged on more reservoir water being released in the Klamath River to provide more water to the endangered Coho salmon during low water years. While this makes sense on the surface, the NAS report also found that: “water added as necessary to sustain higher flows in the main stem during dry years would need to come from reservoirs, and this water could equal or exceed the lethal temperatures for Coho salmon during the warmest months.” In other words, excessive release of the warm reservoir water could actually kill the salmon, not help them. Again, the recovery plan demanded action that is exactly the opposite of what the scientists knew to be true, and their actions actually put the salmon at much higher risk! The recovery plan did serve, however, to destroy property rights and people’s lives.
This anti-science, gaia worshiping religious hystera is by no means limited to Klamath Falls.
The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS) also listed the most common turtle in all of India as endangered. But some activists somewhere probably needed a recovery plan more than they needed scientific honesty. A third of the recovery plans are based on no evidence of actual population levels.
There are presently 984 species listed as endangered by the USFWS, 976 of which have recovery plans.[xiv] The National Wilderness Institute conducted a study in which they found that over 306 of these recovery plans had “little to no hard information about the status of listed species.”
Gaia's religious zealots are not above fraud to further their agenda.
In the fall of 2001 the U.S. Forest Service found that seven federal and state wildlife biologists planted false evidence of a rare and threatened Canadian lynx [organized fraud - B] in the Wenatchee and Gifford Pinchot National Forests in the state of Washington. The three U.S. Forest Service, two U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, and two Washington State Department of Fish and Wildlife employees planted lynx fur on rubbing posts. The posts were installed to identify existence of the creatures in the two national forests as part of a lynx habitat study started in 1999. DNA testing of two of the samples matched that of a lynx living inside an animal preserve. The third DNA sample matched that of an escaped pet lynx being held in a federal office until its owner retrieved it.
Had the fraud gone undetected it would have closed roads to vehicles. They would have banned off-road vehicles, snowmobiles, skis and snowshoes, along with livestock grazing and tree thinning.
This is the sort of radicalized and politicized agency that needs to be scrapped and started over.
329
Tree
ID: 37226713 Fri, Mar 30, 2012, 16:39
Baldwin's hero on homosexuality and gay marriage:
"I personally have deep convictions about my children having a financially stable country that they can live in,” Rep. Allen West (R-Fla.) said in an interview. “I want my daughters to have the opportunities that I had, and that’s what concerns me. That’s what keeps me up awake at night, not worrying about who’s sleeping with who."
330
Tree
ID: 543471212 Thu, Apr 12, 2012, 13:50
of, course we've come to expect this sort of nonsense at this point, but nonetheless.
there is nothing shocking that certain people on this forum throw their support behind the kind of people who want to divide this nation, and not unite it.
331
Mith
ID: 50151411 Thu, Apr 12, 2012, 14:14
I don't see the big deal about that quote.
332
Tree
ID: 543471212 Thu, Apr 12, 2012, 14:20
because if you're going to make a fear-mongering accusation such as that, you should back it up with facts?
333
Mith
ID: 23217270 Thu, Apr 12, 2012, 14:55
You take that as a literal accusation?
334
Razor
ID: 551031157 Thu, Apr 12, 2012, 14:58
It doesn't have to be a literal accusation for it to be a classless, baseless attack from West, but that's nothing new from West.
If you're among that 12 percent of the American public that looks at our dysfunctional and divided Congress and gives it a thumbs up, then I have the perfect political candidate for you.
His name is Richard Mourdock, and he proudly says that if he is elected to the U.S. Senate, he'll do what he can to deepen those partisan divides, which would only add to the dysfunction in Washington. When asked in an interview last week at The Indianapolis Star about the problems with partisan gridlock in Congress, he pushed back with this depressing bit of philosophy: "We need less bipartisanship in Congress."
Currently Mourdock is in a very tight race with the incumbent, Richard Luger. If Luger loses, I think the Republican's lose another Senate seat.
I'm guessing Boldwin would love Mourdock.
336
Boldwin
ID: 12214143 Thu, Apr 12, 2012, 15:08
Got that right. Lugar is so out of touch with the republican base and Indiana for that matter that it could only be explained by his having started his senate career when Nixon was considered conservative and almost that long ago. Lugar is just a big city mayor who moved on to higher office and is hardly different than any other big city democrat machine candidate.
337
Tree
ID: 26371214 Thu, Apr 12, 2012, 15:10
You take that as a literal accusation?
that matters how?
would we excuse it if Al Sharpton said "70 to 80 percent of white people hate blacks"?
it's an irresponsible and baseless attack on a group of people, and done to monger fear.
338
Boldwin
ID: 12214143 Thu, Apr 12, 2012, 15:19
It's easily explainable. They are self-identified members of the 'Progressive Caucus' which is just code word for communist.
339
Mith
ID: 37838313 Thu, Apr 12, 2012, 16:27
that matters how?
You said it's the kind of statement that should be backed up with facts, implying that you don't seem to realize it's satirical.
I don't recall Sharpton ever saying what you wrote, but do I recall Jesse Jackson comparing the Tea Party to the 19th century confederacy.
I'm pretty sure he wasn't accusing them of plotting a seperatist war to protect their right to legal human bondage. And I'm even more sure that you didn't run to this forum when you head about it.
340
Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915 Thu, Apr 12, 2012, 16:34
Heh. Code words, indeed.
341
Tree
ID: 383281215 Thu, Apr 12, 2012, 16:36
You said it's the kind of statement that should be backed up with facts, implying that you don't seem to realize it's satirical.
there is responsibility when placed in a position of a power. a statement like the one West made is irresponsible.
but do I recall Jesse Jackson comparing the Tea Party to the 19th century confederacy.
i had to look this up.
Jesse Jackson, Jr. actually made a similar statement to what you're saying, discussing Obama's job act. (at least this is what i'm guessing you're referring to, but an inane comment could have come from either Jackson)
another irresponsible statement. because i didn't notice this one, i shouldn't bring attention to one i did notice?
342
Razor
ID: 551031157 Thu, Apr 12, 2012, 17:10
Mith, how could you not take issue with a Congressman slandering his colleagues in public? When a citizen tries to bait a Representative with a slanderous question, the right thing to do is to dismiss the accusation and take the high road. West proved he has no interest in leading by lobbing meaningless epithets at the people he was elected to work with.
343
Mith
ID: 37838313 Thu, Apr 12, 2012, 17:52
Razor I don't think it's slander. I guess it's an epithet but I think there's a pretty clear difference. I think a demand that congressional reps only refer to one another in a cordial manner would be contrary to an awful lot of precedent. Don't get me wrong, I think West is a prick of the highest order, and a bully to boot. But this doesn't strike me as a noteworthy infraction.
He needs to look in the mirror, and reread this (slightly edited) paragraph, until it sinks in;
"While the President laughs and dines, our Constitutional Republic is eroding and my countrymen are suffering," West wrote. "In this election year, it is sad to think that some of thoseus who were sitting in that ballroom Saturday night laughing and living it up, are helping to perpetuate the manipulation and deception of our country."
346
Seattle Zen
ID: 47630913 Thu, Jul 19, 2012, 17:47
Allen West for President? Hah! He's be lucky to simply win re-election!
Despite his celebrity and prodigious fund-raising, Mr. West, who announced he would run in a new district this year, faces a serious challenge in November. The question for Democrats is, Will Mr. West’s conservative stance and unbridled style pass muster with a new set of Florida voters in a swing district that is evenly split? In that race, Mr. West is likely to face Patrick Murphy, 30, a Democrat and political neophyte who is shaping up to be a potent force. Democrats are banking that in a presidential election year, Mr. West will fail to sway enough independent-minded voters to win in November. They view the newly created 18th Congressional District on the Treasure Coast as one of six possible Democratic gains in Florida. Impressed with Mr. Murphy’s fund-raising — he is one of the top fund-raisers among Democratic challengers in the country — the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee has put its financial and organizational strength behind him.
347
Boldwin
ID: 18643169 Thu, Jul 19, 2012, 18:04
I guess Jeb Bush isn't helping Tea Party luminaries when it comes time to redraw the districts.
Big surprise, considering how the Tea Party feels about the Bush family and vice versa.
348
sarge33rd
ID: 12554167 Thu, Jul 19, 2012, 18:05
excuse making B?
349
Boldwin
ID: 18643169 Thu, Jul 19, 2012, 19:11
Anytime your political rival finds a way to redistrict your home into a new less favorable district, the results are not favorable.
350
Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915 Thu, Jul 19, 2012, 19:33
The GOP did the redistricting. I guess there really is no end to the blame game on the Right.
351
Mith
ID: 556121916 Thu, Jul 19, 2012, 19:36
Jeb Bush is a "political rival" of the GOP, didn't you know?
352
Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915 Thu, Jul 19, 2012, 19:37
Whatever happens, don't appoint him to a political government position!
353
Boldwin
ID: 18643169 Thu, Jul 19, 2012, 19:41
You are familiar with Jeb Bush's recent statements regarding the Tea Party? I mean you are trying to keep up with current events, right?
354
sarge33rd
ID: 12554167 Thu, Jul 19, 2012, 19:52
The Tea Party, is not representative of any but rightwing extremists B. They should NOT, be taken as representing the GOP on the whole.
where they say: Out of 175,554 registered voters, 247,713 vote cards were cast in St. Lucie County, Florida on Tuesday.
The article B links above, misrepresents the tally of vote cards cast, as being votes for Obama. (Not substantiated within the article at all. In fact, the article points out that Out of the 247,713 cards cast, somehow election machines counted 123,591 total votes. (slightly less than half the vote cards, IOW< some 300 ballots were invalidated)
We covered this already Boldwin, they had a 2 page ballot, thus each voter cast 2 cards (1 per page).
This is the problem with trying to HONESTLY educate the masses. You have a few agenda driven liars, who tell lie after lie after lie with such speed, you cant keep up and disprove them all.