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Subject: Next up: A jobs bill
Posted by: Perm Dude
- [5510572522] Sat, Jan 09, 2010, 10:38
Senate collecting caucus ideas--coming close to a package for committee work.
Very workmanlike, these days, that Senate. |
Only the 50 most recent replies are currently shown. Click on this text to display hidden posts as well. [Lengthy or complex threads may require a slight delay before updating.] |
| 601 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915 Fri, Oct 05, 2012, 22:46
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Even Jack himself says he has no proof. The quote in #599 is his own words.
Yet you think you can prove corruption using Jack as evidence? The rules of evidence seem not to apply to you, is that right?
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| 602 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915 Fri, Oct 05, 2012, 22:47
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It isn't that math is hard for me. It is that proof is hard for you.
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| 603 | DWetzel
ID: 25740420 Fri, Oct 05, 2012, 23:12
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It's hard to imagine that people would hate America so much that any scrap of good news is booed. But it's getting easier to imagine it every day.
Sorry your apocalypse isn't coming true. Inventing a new reality isn't a solution for you though.
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| 604 | Razor
ID: 4795860 Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 01:58
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There are two lessons here:
1) Never listen to the anti-American loons who are seemingly upset and disturbed when positive news comes out about America's progress.
2) Never take a single economic indicator and use it as proof of anything. There is too much error in a single number. The important thing is the trend.
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| 606 | sarge33rd
ID: 12554167 Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 02:30
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Only the GOP, is gonna get bent when people find jobs.
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| 607 | Boldwin
ID: 40937423 Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 02:44
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I wish I was wrong but people aren't gonna get jobs in big enuff numbers. Europe is about to crash and drop the other shoe. Whoever wins the election is gonna get clobbered over the deeper depression to come. I expect Romney to win and the EU debacle will be very nearly the final nail in capitalism's coffin. The anti-free market crowd will see to cementing that PR interpretation. I'm not guaranteeing this scenario. I'm not that good. But that's what I suspect will happen.
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| 608 | Boldwin
ID: 40937423 Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 04:42
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While the 0.4% perfectly unmanipulated and totally coincidental swing in the unemployment rate in an Obama favorable direction one month before the election came at a prime time moment for the market, one hour ahead of the open, setting the market mood for the rest of the day (which despite all best efforts still closed red, valiant efforts by Simon Potter and the FRBNY's direct pipe to Citadel notwithstanding), there was one other, far more important data point released by the government's department of agriculture, sufficiently late after the market close to impact no risk assets. That data point of course was foodstamps ...
... since December 2007, or the start of the Great Depression ver 2.0, the number of jobs lost is 4.5 million, while those added to foodstamps and disability rolls, has increased by a unprecedented 21 million. - Zerohedge, Tyler Durden Happy times are here again, the skies are blue and clear again.
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| 609 | Building 7 Leader
ID: 171572711 Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 09:34
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It was probably all the costly campaigns and related hiring that caused the improvement.
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| 610 | biliruben
ID: 21841115 Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 10:07
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Tyler Durden's a trained monkey.
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| 611 | Boldwin
ID: 4923615 Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 18:52
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BTW that ridiculous impossible unemployment figure was calculated by those unpartisan folks at the BLS...
You remember the wonderful folks at the Bureau of Labor who tried to blackmail Boeing's NC plant into knuckling under to liberal pressure...
Who along with the EPA have some of the most partisan employees in the permanent government and who include Obama bundlers in their staff.
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| 612 | sarge33rd
ID: 12554167 Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 18:57
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No, that would have been the NC plant Boeing built, in an effort to circumvent a contractual agreement they already had in place, with Washington State workers.
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| 613 | Boldwin
ID: 37932618 Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 19:32
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It was the bureau of labor and it was leftwing partisan as hell. Naturally you supported that scandal.
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| 614 | sarge33rd
ID: 12554167 Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 19:37
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NO B, I support factual premises. Boeing built that NC plant, to work around the labor contract they had with Washington State workers. I know you dislike facts and honesty and integrity...but thats too bad. I'm going to employ them anyway.
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| 615 | Boldwin
ID: 37932618 Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 19:50
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You don't understand. I support creative ways to avoid out of control union power. I know all about these facts you think you have monopoly ownership over.
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| 616 | sarge33rd
ID: 12554167 Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 19:51
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A contract is a contract. They were obligated I do understand...you would screw over the worker in heartbeat, if it meant a 1 /1000% better ROI for the NYC investor.
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| 617 | Boldwin
ID: 37932618 Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 19:57
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When thugs pin you down, escape.
I don't owe any loyalty to elitists earning 10-40 times what the average man earns. Those fat cat workers.
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| 618 | sarge33rd
ID: 12554167 Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 19:59
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have you looked up the definition of "hypocrite" lately?
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| 619 | Boldwin
ID: 37932618 Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 20:04
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Since you think infinite spending in government is desirable it's no wonder you support infinite union demands. No way an employer should be allowed to walk away when the demands get insane, huh?
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| 620 | Pancho Villa
ID: 59645318 Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 20:24
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Well, I'm not a union guy, but when I'm flying on a Boeing jet, I'm thinking I want the guy who tightens the bolts making just as much or more than the guy in the office signing the purchase order for those bolts.
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| 621 | Boldwin
ID: 37932618 Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 20:55
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I just read about what should be a 4 cent pin on a Boeing jet that costs them $71. I'd like to see things get sane there and expenses get realistic all the way around.
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| 622 | sarge33rd
ID: 12554167 Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 21:48
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Boeing signed the labor contract Boldwin. Whether you like it or not, really doesnt mean diddly sh*t.
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| 623 | Boldwin
ID: 37932618 Sun, Oct 07, 2012, 00:01
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Then let them obey the terms of their contract in Washington with whatever workers remain in Washington, and the new terms in the new contract with the new workers in NC as well.
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| 624 | sarge33rd
ID: 12554167 Sun, Oct 07, 2012, 00:14
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The NC plant, was built to cheat the Washington workers. The plane that Boeing wanted to build in NC, they were contracted to build in Washington.
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| 625 | Boldwin
ID: 37932618 Sun, Oct 07, 2012, 06:27
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You can prove to me that they signed a promise in contract form to produce x number of planes in Washington? I don't believe it. Prove it.
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| 626 | Boldwin
ID: 37932618 Sun, Oct 07, 2012, 06:38
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I'll even do the research for you:The plant was a source of political controversy after the National Labor Relations Board brought a complaint against the aircraft manufacturer alleging the nonunion South Carolina plant was built in retaliation for past union strikes in Washington state.
The complaint was dropped late last year after the Machinists Union approved a contract extension and Boeing promised to build a new version of the 787 in Washington. From this we learn that the promise to build came after a contract extention that was extorted out of Boeing by a pack of thugs consisting of a company breaking Obama Bureau of Labor and a strike-waaaaay-too-often union.
Both terrible terrible things for America and American competitiveness.
The next step will be to build them in India or somewhere else beyond the reach of Obama if you keep abusing Boeing so much.
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| 627 | Boldwin
ID: 37932618 Sun, Oct 07, 2012, 06:50
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This would be the NLRB that is composed of Obama radicals so radical Obama can't get them appointed without cutting congress out of the process. Half are recess appointments.
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| 628 | biliruben
ID: 21841115 Sun, Oct 07, 2012, 09:02
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This Congress, Obama would have trouble getting Goldwater confirmed.
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| 629 | sarge33rd
ID: 12554167 Sun, Oct 07, 2012, 11:43
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I dont have to prove diddly to you, 2 years after the fact. It was there at the time if you gave a damn about the truth vs partisan garbage. We all know, what concerns you the most.
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| 630 | Boldwin
ID: 4796714 Sun, Oct 07, 2012, 15:15
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These liberals, how many ways can they drive business out of this country?
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| 631 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915 Sun, Oct 07, 2012, 15:23
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Remember the Clinton administration? I didn't think so...
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| 632 | boikin
ID: 532592112 Mon, Oct 08, 2012, 11:10
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I don't know if Boeing had a contract or not with Unions in Washington but it doesn't change the fact that that the unions are making them uncompetitive, just ask AirBus who opened a plant in Alabama.
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| 633 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915 Mon, Oct 08, 2012, 11:12
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Safe to say that is true--in many cases.
But I also think that unions have become a boogeyman for the Right, being blamed for almost everything wrong under the sun. Also the "solution" (to get rid of all unions) is simply not a good response at all.
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| 634 | biliruben
ID: 21841115 Mon, Oct 08, 2012, 11:47
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I'll let you in on a little secret, living in Seattle with a (conservative) aeronautical engineer as a father who has worked with them for the last 40 years: It ain't the unions that make Boeing uncompetitive, it's the management.
And airbus ain't much better.
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| 635 | Pancho Villa
ID: 59645318 Mon, Oct 08, 2012, 11:50
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it doesn't change the fact that that the unions are making them uncompetitive, just ask AirBus who opened a plant in Alabama.
I asked Airbus.
The chief executive of Airbus said U.S. rival Boeing has slashed the prices of Boeing 737 Max aircraft in a bid to grab market share from Airbus A320neo, a German newspaper reported on Sunday. "Boeing is desperately trying now to boost the market share of B737 Max. They are very aggressive when it comes to pricing," Fabrice Bregier said in an interview with Welt am Sonntag. For the full year, Boeing will likely announce a higher level of new orders for the whole group than Airbus, he added.
Another element in the Airbus/Boeing competition appears to subsidies.
The WTO has asked the European Union to hand over documents on the funding of the Airbus A350 in a potential sharpening of a transatlantic dispute over aircraft subsidies, a US source familiar with the case said.
It is the first time the funding of Europe's answer to the Boeing 787 Dreamliner, due to make its maiden flight next year, has been drawn directly into the world's largest trade dispute but it remains to be seen how the WTO will act on the data.
"The WTO has ordered the EU to hand over documents on the A350 which it did on Friday," the US source said.
Both sides are pressing for major trade sanctions after the Geneva-based WTO found that Airbus and US rival Boeing had benefited from billions of dollars of unfair subsidies in a pair of trade complaints now in their ninth year.
Washington has called on Airbus to stop receiving loans from its host European nations -- Britain, France, Germany and Spain -- and argues that the WTO should take loans for the A350 into account when evaluating penalties for earlier support. link
It's not an accurate statement to say Boeing is uncompetitive. ' Boeing Co. said it delivered 149 commercial airplanes in the third quarter of 2012, up 17 percent from the 127 it delivered the same period a year ago. Boeing (NYSE: BA) said it delivered eight 747s in the latest quarter, which compares with none delivered in the third quarter of 2011. In the latest quarter, Boeing delivered 102 737s (100 in the third quarter of 2011), seven 767s (one in 2011), 20 777s (21 in 2011) and 12 787s (one in 2011).
Boeing Co. CEO James McNerney Jr. recieved $18.4 million in pay last year, which was more than Boeing paid in federal taxes, according to a new report by the Institute for Policy Studies. link
And it's hard to feel too upset with Boeing's unions when you take a further look.
Boeing Co. CEO James McNerney Jr. recieved $18.4 million in pay last year, which was more than Boeing paid in federal taxes, according to a new report by the Institute for Policy Studies. link
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| 636 | boikin
ID: 532592112 Mon, Oct 08, 2012, 12:57
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I should have stated, ask airbus why they put there plant in mobile, or ask Hyundai in Montgomery, or BMW in SC. Maybe Boeing is just trying to keep up with trends.
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| 637 | sarge33rd
ID: 12554167 Mon, Oct 08, 2012, 13:44
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It was widely available at the time boikin...Boeing built n SC, to avoid the contract they had with the Washington State workers.
Why 2 years later, we are letting Boldwin bring this issue up as if it were new, is beyond me.
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| 638 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915 Thu, Nov 01, 2012, 18:43
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Gallup's unadjusted October unemployment to 7.0%.
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| 639 | Seattle Zen
ID: 47630913 Thu, Nov 01, 2012, 18:51
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LOL! Who is to blame for that good news, Mitt?
I'll take a stab, Soros...?
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| 640 | boikin
ID: 532592112 Fri, Nov 02, 2012, 11:21
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Interesting that the official number went up to 7.9%, though I have to say the adjusted rate for Gallup pole is either wrong or they left something out because there calculation method is completely over simplified.
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| 641 | biliruben
ID: 21841115 Fri, Nov 02, 2012, 12:11
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Yeah, Gallop's methodology is fairly new, and isn't a good predictor of the official number at this point.
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| 642 | Boldwin
ID: 31427247 Fri, May 24, 2013, 09:57
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| 643 | Mith
ID: 4310402110 Fri, May 24, 2013, 10:09
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I believe Obama's current numbers look mostly like W's, around 7.5 unemployment and around 2.5 million in "job gain".
But if a year-old graph from when America's financial outlook was a bit more bleak is what it takes to get you through the day, so be it.
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| 644 | Mith
ID: 4310402110 Fri, May 24, 2013, 10:12
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To be honest I'm kind of surprised by the claim that Bush had a positive jobs number over his 8 years.
But who am I to question a graphic that someone found someplace on the internet - or the person who would would for some reason believe the year old economic figures it touts are still accurate or relevant?
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| 645 | boikin
ID: 430211013 Fri, May 24, 2013, 10:28
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interesting if the numbers actually mean anything Carter produced a lot of jobs, who would have guessed based on how they talk about his presidency.
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| 646 | biliruben
ID: 41431323 Fri, May 24, 2013, 11:03
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Take out the first 6 months while in catastrophic free-fall from Bush. Things look a lot different.
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| 647 | Perm Dude
ID: 201027169 Fri, May 24, 2013, 11:21
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Carter's problem was never jobs, but stagflation.
The Right likes to use these slice and dice snapshots to, essentially, reinforce what they already "know." But, like talking about the economy and federal budget, there seems to be no effort made at noting that a new President is still under the budget from the last guy (and, the next guy will have a budget in place for the first ten months already of his term).
So Bush gets credit for Clinton's last budget year, and dumps the last year of the effects of his own budget policies onto Obama. What a deal!
George W. Bush: A job numbers taker.
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| 648 | slug
ID: 274262411 Fri, May 24, 2013, 12:26
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Using the same BLS data: Obama thru Apr'13 is +1.426M
Looking Sept to Sept for each, the only significant number changes are to our last 2 presidents. Bush from +4.375M to +1.964M Obama from +1.426M to +4.769M
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| 649 | boikin
ID: 430211013 Fri, May 24, 2013, 12:44
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It is also interesting that there is no relationship between unemployment and jobs created not sure why both are included.
Also I am not sure you want to be taking credit for Clinton's last year 2000 while not as bad as 2008 I don't think it was good year.
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| 650 | Perm Dude
ID: 201027169 Fri, May 24, 2013, 13:46
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Clinton's last budget went through the end of October 2001.
Bush's last budget went through the end of October 2008.
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| 651 | boikin
ID: 430211013 Fri, May 24, 2013, 14:03
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whoops, you are correct, still 2001 not the best year.
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