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Subject: Climate-gate Posted by: Boldwin - [26451820] Tue, Dec 22, 2009, 05:45 A telling sign of just how driven off conservatives are from this site, is that the amazing revelations regarding the global warming hoaxsters caught red-handed massively erasing history, manipulating science publication and otherwise making a mockery of science... ...did not even get a thread weeks after the truth came out! I assume some conservative [or truth-loving non-conservative]...will comment on the hacked e-mails eventually. I just don't have the energy to post the previous revelations atm but...Now come monumental new revelations from other sources! | |||||||
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| 432 | sarge33rd ID: 12554167 Tue, Jul 31, 2012, 21:35 | <--pretty sure I owe Khahan a beer. lol | ||||||
| 433 | Boldwin ID: 18643169 Tue, Jul 31, 2012, 21:47 | Since you like averages so much, I suggest you average the global cooling hystery of the 1970's with global warming hystery of today and you'll come down smelling like roses in time. | ||||||
| 434 | Tree ID: 17039238 Wed, Aug 01, 2012, 00:50 |
LMAO. someone just got taken to school, got taken down a peg or two, and his hubris, his pride, won't even let him back down a bit and say "hey, man, ok, maybe you do understand this a bit more than i do." how very Christian of you. you might as well vote. | ||||||
| 435 | Boldwin ID: 18643169 Wed, Aug 01, 2012, 03:57 |
This is the formulation liberals love. If only the world was just made up of liberals who of course know the correct party-line position on everything...no extremism there, oh no no no... ...and if only everyone else were just squishes who would keep compromising away every position other than the party-line. | ||||||
| 436 | Tree ID: 17039238 Wed, Aug 01, 2012, 09:45 |
This is the formulation liberals love. Khahan is no liberal. | ||||||
| 437 | boikin ID: 532592112 Wed, Aug 01, 2012, 10:03 |
I'll bet there is arctic icecover in September even in this warmer than average year Interesting comment coming from someone so read in climate change since, it was actually a historically cold winter in much of the artic. | ||||||
| 438 | Khahan ID: 39432178 Wed, Aug 01, 2012, 11:54 |
Thanks Tree. You are right, I am no liberal. Even when my final disposition agrees with 'the liberal agenda' I came to that conclusion because of a deeper conservative belief (good example - right to same sex marriage. I support it because its not my place to tell them they cant. Not because of some willingness or want to promote the lifestyle. I recognize that I have my beliefs, they have theirs and what they are asking is not unconstitutional or disruptive or threatening to our society. Therefore its ok. I was raised by consertatives who are now tea party members. They didn't teach me to accept gay marriage. But they taught me good conservative values and those values led me to that decision. As opposed to you who are against it because somebody else tells you to be against it). More to the point, I'm no extremist boldwin. No extremism there? You're right. No extremism from me. I'm about as middle of the road as they come. And claiming I'm 'towing the party line.' You've obviously not paid a bit of attention to any of my posts on the poli boards. I'm the one who rails against the party line, even when I agree with it. I'm the one who blasts partisanship, no matter which side its on. I'm the one who thinks that once an official gets elected he should disavow any party affiliation while in his position of power because that official is there to represent everybody. Not just those who voted for him. So keep to your tried and true defense mechanisms. And keep failing at this discussion. I really don't mind. Its amusing. Oh and Sarge - Im holding you to that beer if we ever get to meet! I like Franziskaner, guinness, yeungling. Most any lager and most any dark draught. | ||||||
| 440 | sarge33rd ID: 12554167 Wed, Aug 01, 2012, 11:59 |
As opposed to you who are against it because somebody else tells you to be against it I let Tree address that comment, but will puton the record, I dont think that is why Tree favors allowing same sex marriage. As for the beer....the oppty presents itself, and it will be my pleasure. | ||||||
| 441 | Boldwin ID: 18643169 Wed, Aug 01, 2012, 11:59 |
Boikin Let me save you the trouble. When the perpetrators of the hoax in the first place, the Hadley Center/CRU tell you it hasn't gotten warmer in fifteen years, I don't sit by my monitor biting my fingernails, studying the ice-pack by the hour watching for 'The Day After Tommorrow' to break out. | ||||||
| 442 | Khahan ID: 39432178 Wed, Aug 01, 2012, 12:05 | Sarge, after I reread it I realized that sounded like it was directed at Tree. It wasn't. It was directed at Boldwin. | ||||||
| 443 | sarge33rd ID: 12554167 Wed, Aug 01, 2012, 12:49 |
my bad....a reread on my part, and I realized it was to B, with the "against it" part. <--reminds self, might want to read twice, then post. lol | ||||||
| 444 | Tree ID: 21740112 Wed, Aug 01, 2012, 13:43 |
I like Franziskaner one of the best Hefeweizens around. personally, i like Live Oak's better, but Franz is damned near the top. | ||||||
| 445 | Frick ID: 52182321 Wed, Aug 01, 2012, 22:49 |
Sarge, Ice doesn't float because it has air in it, it floats because ice is less dense then water. When water freezes, it changes it structure and crystalizes, this results in being slightly less dense and thus "lighter" then the water it is floating on. Having pockets of air would also make it less dense and help it float. Not a big deal, but as a science wonk, I had to comment. As for why the ice caps are shrinking? That is the great question and why I have issues with climate scientists. The Higgs boson was not "discovered" until they had 99.999% confidence (I think) of their find. Climate scientists are nowhere near this level in most of their "discoveries". They have data that shows the effects, but we don't know what is causing them. The ice caps melting is a great example. Is it a change in ocean currents? Solar output, ozone hole? global warming? something else? Climate scientists like to claim they know, but IMO they don't. They have lots of theories, but most of them are most likely wrong. That is how science works. Put a theory out there, test it, and refine the theory. Climate scientists (IMO) tend to skip steps 2 and 3. Khahan, I award you one internet. Epic post in 431. My question that I keep coming back to when I read these boards are who is more insane? The original poster or the multiple posters who keep answering and commenting. Isn't the definition of insanity to keep trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different results? | ||||||
| 446 | DWetzel ID: 31111810 Thu, Aug 02, 2012, 00:08 | Sometimes it's fun to watch the Black Knight claim that it's only a flesh wound, his arm's not lopped off. | ||||||
| 447 | Khahan ID: 54138190 Thu, Aug 02, 2012, 01:41 | Tis but a scratch. I've had worse! | ||||||
| 448 | Boldwin ID: 18643169 Thu, Aug 02, 2012, 01:44 | When you average it out. | ||||||
| 449 | Boldwin ID: 18643169 Thu, Aug 02, 2012, 01:58 |
I'm just curious how it is that someone who approaches every issue as a tabula rasa, who enters with such hydrocephalic purity and freedom of bias... ...can love booing, ganging up, and the principle of 'no friends to the right' with such principled rigidity? Where did they find you anyway? | ||||||
| 450 | Boldwin ID: 18643169 Thu, Aug 02, 2012, 02:17 |
And while you are at it, ask your wife how it was that the homosexual lobby managed to completely cut off the grants of all reparative therapy research if the grant-making process is free from political agenda. | ||||||
| 451 | Perm Dude ID: 3210201915 Thu, Aug 02, 2012, 02:22 | For the same reason that the Flat Earthers get very few grants these days. | ||||||
| 452 | Tree ID: 17039238 Thu, Aug 02, 2012, 02:31 |
homosexual lobby oh!! i was there!! right before walking into the reception hall of the wedding of my friends Amy and Trish! it was quite a grand lobby. | ||||||
| 453 | Perm Dude ID: 3210201915 Thu, Aug 02, 2012, 03:07 | Say what you want about their cute obsession with "marriage": Those fags can do lobbies. | ||||||
| 454 | Boldwin ID: 18643169 Thu, Aug 02, 2012, 04:47 | And principled rigidity. | ||||||
| 455 | Khahan ID: 39432178 Thu, Aug 02, 2012, 08:58 |
and the principle of 'no friends to the right' And here is where your mental illness shines thru. I have a lot of friends on the right. If you want I'll recap my points in this thread: 1) I global warming has not been proven to be a man-made phenomena 2) I think a lot of the issues raised and a lot of the political bruhaha around it are focused around the almighty dollar (with me so far? You agree with those 2 points) 3) I called you out as an extremist. Let me do a diagram for you. Extreme right center left extreme <-- ------/---/---/------ --> You........me (yes I know I have the right on the left side, its easier to line everything up that way properly). I've got plenty of friends on the right. I agree with the right ideology more often than not. But I do that thru my own choice and my own evaluation of data. You, are on the right. But you are always on that side, no matter what. You let that side tell you what your ideology should be then you dig up information to support it. Am I ganging up on you? Yes. Its my duty as a middle of the road thinker to try to reign in the extremes. I do it to both sides, though, so don't let my attentions go to your head. Its not you. Its me. I'm sorry it has to be this way. | ||||||
| 456 | Boldwin ID: 18643169 Thu, Aug 02, 2012, 09:58 |
1) It's very very hard to keep track of everyone's position on every topic. If you actually had you would find it impossible to peg me to any group or group-think out there that you are familiar with. 2) There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your safe narrow segment of the spectrum. | ||||||
| 457 | sarge33rd ID: 12554167 Thu, Aug 02, 2012, 10:09 |
1) It's very very hard to keep track of everyone's position on every topic. If you actually had you would find it impossible to peg me to any group or group-think out there that you are familiar with.[emphasis added} unintentional comedy, at its absolute peak. Boldwin, dude, seriously? Pegging you politically, is easier than pegging Karl Marx. | ||||||
| 458 | Frick ID: 14082314 Thu, Aug 02, 2012, 10:39 |
PD, you owe me new keyboard for 453. Boldwin, Could you please provide us just one example of where you differ from the right? | ||||||
| 459 | Boldwin ID: 18643169 Thu, Aug 02, 2012, 11:22 |
Frick For ending the drug war. The Bush family is part of a clique that has run the drug trade for at least a couple centuries. At least half of the right has not figured out that 'the Arab Spring' is a disaster in the making. They are still pulling for the downfall of Assad. I don't think there is any long or midterm hope for America. America is not God's little darling. The Bush dynasty is on the side that wants to see America lose it's sovereignty and be subsumed by globalist government. It is not an coincidence that most of the 911 terrorists came from small CIA airports in Florida. Outfits like KROLL that have deep ties with the establishment in both parties is deeply involved with terrorism IMO. McCain is George Soros' sock-puppet. If those don't differ from every last person on the right, they differ with half of them. The simple fact that there is no one else like me on this or any other board and that I have no unalloyed ally should tell you how NOT a talking points carbon copy I am. | ||||||
| 460 | boikin ID: 532592112 Thu, Aug 02, 2012, 11:26 | He has got you there, he disagrees often with the center right. Now, for the extreme right? | ||||||
| 461 | Tree ID: 48729210 Thu, Aug 02, 2012, 11:32 |
PD, you owe me new keyboard for 453. i'm owed one for 456. now THAT was funny. He has got you there, he disagrees often with the center right. Now, for the extreme right? exactly. he disagrees with moderates. but the far right? he marches boot step for boot step with them. | ||||||
| 462 | sarge33rd ID: 12554167 Thu, Aug 02, 2012, 11:39 | B, other than the "war on drugs", name one point where you and the LEFT agree. | ||||||
| 463 | Boldwin ID: 18643169 Thu, Aug 02, 2012, 16:07 |
Partially or totally? Because it's all been corrupted. I'm for clean air and water. I care about poor people. I like animals. There isn't anything I agree with them on that doesn't come with a proviso. | ||||||
| 464 | Khahan ID: 39432178 Thu, Aug 02, 2012, 16:11 |
B - its not that the right is for dirty air/water, doesnt care about poor people and detests animals. The difference comes in how to handle those issues. | ||||||
| 465 | sarge33rd ID: 12554167 Thu, Aug 02, 2012, 16:19 | B? You disagree with the EPA even existing. You do NOT care about poor people, you just pay occassional lip service to pretending that you do. You probably do put animals ahead of humans, like the extremists at PETA. | ||||||
| 466 | Perm Dude ID: 201027169 Fri, Jan 11, 2013, 02:14 | If you are 27 or younger, you've never experienced a colder-than-average month. | ||||||
| 468 | Frick ID: 2193319 Fri, Jan 11, 2013, 09:06 |
From the original analysis that was used for the link in 466. This post and method are not about attributing cause for changes, they are about trying to decide if we can even refer to a 'normal climate'. Is the average temperature rising? Yes, I think that most rationale people will agree with that. What are the causes, we don't know. We have some theories. And while 150 years is roughly double the average human life span, it is a tiny, tiny fraction of the Earth's and Sun's life spans. Should we continue to pollute as if there are no consequences. No. Should we enact laws that will harm our economy. No. Should we try to take reasonable steps that are cost effective and increase efficiency? Yep. I deleted 467 as I didn't catch a missing bracket that messed up some formatting. | ||||||
| 469 | Seattle Zen ID: 3310162612 Mon, Jan 14, 2013, 19:18 |
Should we continue to pollute as if there are no consequences. No. Should we enact laws that will harm our economy. No. Should we try to take reasonable steps that are cost effective and increase efficiency? Yep. I'm with you, Frick. I think how we define question two will lead to fundamental differences between factions. I, for one, wanted a lot more greenhouse gas reducing and energy efficiency spending as a part of the stimulus package. Still think our country would gain a huge benefit in creating a new, more efficient electricity grid and a massive amount of infrastructure investment in wind farms in the southern plains. Republicans would spit-take their high fructose corn syrup carbonated beverage at the suggestion, rattling off every anti-spending epithet they could conjure in 10 seconds. What sort of laws and regulations are moderates willing to consider? | ||||||
| 471 | sarge33rd ID: 4609710 Tue, Jan 15, 2013, 00:54 |
Moderate Rep changes party to Dem The Arizona Republican Party is an ideological outlier. I am not, and I see nothing that indicates that leadership is inclined to move in any direction but further away from what I believe are the values of this community. I appreciate the support I have been given by those in the party who share these feelings. I also appreciate the support I have been given by both independents and Democrats who have openly recognized my efforts to craft common sense public policy, untethered from an extreme ideological position. But the Republican Party leadership cannot expect those of us whose purpose it is to reach common ground across varying political interests to continue to wear a label that rejects that core principle. | ||||||
| 473 | Frick ID: 2193319 Tue, Jan 15, 2013, 09:03 |
Re: 470 & 472 Thank you for helping move the debate along. Re: 469 That is good question. I agree with you on energy efficiency, but it has to be somewhat reasonable. I think the approach that was taken with hybrid cars works. The technology wasn't cost effective initially without the tax credits. So to get the economies of scale, cars were effectively reduced in cost by tax breaks. The Prius is no longer eligible for the tax incentives I believe, as it has reached a specific point (I am only vaguely recalling that, so it could be incorrect.) VW had a concept car (CrossBlue) at the Detroit auto show that was a large SUV with a diesel engine and 2 electric motors. It would average 35mpg, which is at least 10mpg better than a similar competitor, and closer to 15mpg than most similar competitors. But it likely won't be made or brought here because it would be to expensive. I dislike the carbon credits system that is being to put into place for power plants. It seems like nothing more than a political maneuver to tax red states to benefit blue states. Harming the middle of the country seems to be the net effect and the middle of the country is already struggling economically. Adding this burden, while benefitting the coasts (in general) doesn't seem like the right way to go about it. In general I don't have a problem with laws and regulations, they are needed as companies have shown no ability to restrain themselves to make money right now, without considering the consequences of the future (thank you Jack Welch). | ||||||
| 474 | Boldwin ID: 11020158 Tue, Jan 15, 2013, 09:22 |
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| 475 | Boldwin ID: 11020158 Tue, Jan 15, 2013, 09:53 |
If it was me personally, I would fund the heck out of bringing to market thorium nuclear reactors. Ban windpower until they can find a way to quit sweeping the skies free of wildlife and until they don't need subsidies to break even. Build tidal power plants. By the time that generation of powerplants ages out solar power tech will be efficient enuff to go mostly solar. BTW codes are on track or perhaps a tad too draconian, but it won't take long before the housing stock averages 30R and takes very little to heat and cool. The majority of the luxury housing market right now is being built to that standard. Requirements are being put in place that every house sold meet draconian energy effiency figures. There will be some real hardship and some rich people will take much advantage of poor people in a bind over that, but if you could put a human face on it, I could even back a soft version of that. Passivhaus and zero-energy buildings are being taught everywhere and architects are excited to be pushing it bigtime. We'll be lighting with LED's cutting lighting energy drain by 85%. All my frequently used bulbs are LED already. The developed world is doing just fine on pollution. The problem people should be looking at is that the world has exported all the jobs and pollution to China. That's where the problem went. In addition as the world wakes up and pulls up the bottom third a whole new pollution problem is being born. Not sure how you power that market pollution-free. | ||||||
| 476 | Boldwin ID: 11020158 Tue, Jan 15, 2013, 10:03 |
Now that the USA has switched to net natural gas exporter and the supply is growing exponentially thanks to fracking, switching the American auto fleet to natural gas is a no-brainer. The fleet that is already very clean could thus be even cleaner. Hopefully the Arab financed anti-fracking publicity campaign doesn't succeed in hog-tying us. | ||||||
| 477 | boikin ID: 430211013 Mon, Jan 28, 2013, 10:45 | Big cities found to be causing warmer winters. Not sure how this will fit into CO2 causing warming meme and not much we can even do about this, maybe more roof top farms? I think this is just more evidence that scientist have not been thinking about the problem in properly and have been fixated on CO2. It all reminds me of how in the early 1900s you could find orange trees growing wild as far north Georgia border now orange groves can survive much past Orlando. The believed reasoning behind this was drying up of swamps that held heat. | ||||||
| 478 | Boldwin ID: 534112621 Mon, May 27, 2013, 08:08 |
 Happy 34" Memorial Day Why they had to change 'Global Warming' to 'Climate Change'. | ||||||
| 479 | sarge33rd ID: 4609710 Wed, Jul 10, 2013, 09:44 |
deny this graphic demonstration of the extent of damage being done. | ||||||
| 480 | biliruben ID: 41431323 Sat, Jul 27, 2013, 04:20 |
 Useful graphic. | ||||||
| 481 | biliruben ID: 41431323 Sat, Jul 27, 2013, 04:25 |
2011, easier to read. https://www.llnl.gov/news/newsreleases/2012/Oct/images/25307_LLNLUSEnergy2011.png | ||||||
| 482 | biliruben ID: 21841115 Sat, Jul 27, 2013, 10:40 | Livermore table | ||||||
| 483 | ChicagoTRS ID: 1550160 Sat, Jul 27, 2013, 11:48 | Livermore table is interesting...would like to see cost data associated with each energy type. | ||||||
| 484 | biliruben ID: 21841115 Sat, Jul 27, 2013, 12:24 |
The rejected energy is massive. I'm guessing that's Heat or electric lost in transmission? That's where I would focus conservation efforts. Converting transportation away from petroleum also looks like something that would really help with greenhouse gases. A combination of active transportation and electric, presumably generated by something not just as polluting. And we really need to ramp up the passive house movement and distributed power generation to cut those huge commercial and residential numbers. | ||||||
| 485 | biliruben ID: 21841115 Sat, Jul 27, 2013, 12:27 | I'd like to see the externalities costed out too. How do you put a price on destroying our only planet? | ||||||
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