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0 Subject: Making A Mockery Of Conservatism

Posted by: Pancho Villa
- [597172916] Sun, Feb 26, 2012, 19:30

One of the main mantras of the modern conservative movement in this country is government spending, ever-expanding deficits and unsustainable programs like social security and Medicare.
For the most part, conservatives are right in their appraisal of federal spending. The concept of spending more than revenue received, resulting in annual deficits of more than a trillion dollars, borders on the insane. Eventually, the equations become so sideways that only the most radical measures must be considered in order to avoid economic anarchy.
Many conservatives believe we are already there, and there's evidence to suggest that, lacking immediate and severe austerity measures ala Greece, the roadblock to continued economic growth is real and imminenet.

That's why it's so hard to understand why a large contingency of conservatives make a mockery of the term "conservative" when it comes to the subject of energy, and oil in particular. It's hard to understand why they promote the same "spending like drunken sailors" they condemn liberal politicians for, when the equations are equally sideways when it comes to oil.

According to figures accumulated by Canadian geo-scientist
David Hughes

The facts of the matter are that no nation on earth is more dependent on imported oil than the U.S. Although consumption has declined somewhat, due to the Great Recession, imports accounted for more than 61 percent of U.S. oil consumption in 2009. Net 2009 U.S. imports of 11.5 million barrels per day exceeded China's TOTAL OIL CONSUMPTION of 8.6 million barrels per day by 33 percent. Americans, with a population of 310 million, consumed 18.7 million barrels per day in 2009 compared to China, a country with 1.32 billion people, which consumed a mere 8.6 million barrels per day. This works out to 22 barrels of oil consumption per American in 2009 compared to 2.4 barrels per person in China.

Although American oil production increased slightly in 2009 from a recent low in 2008, it is down 36 percent from its all time peak in 1970. Meanwhile oil imports are up by 358 percent since 1965. The vaunted 100,000 barrel per day growth in shale oil production by 2013 in Krauss' article, if it occurs, would amount to half a percent of current U.S. consumption.


What about those vaunted Alberta tar sands? Hughes thoughts from a more recent article.

The tar sands have become infamous due to how dirty the oil is and how energy-intensive it is to extract, along with the massive environmental devastation required in the process of extraction.

Scientific and environmental critics of tar sand extraction also argue that oil companies' glowing forecasts of how much oil is there, along with how long it will take to extract are fantastic, in a literal sense of the term.

Hughes, whose expertise includes 32 years with the Geological Survey of Canada as both a scientist and research manager, calls the forecasts "exuberant".
"They were at 1.5 million barrels per day (bpd) in 2010. Industry has tripled the forecasts in 25 years, which would put them at about 4.5mbpd. It's taken 40 years to get the tar sands to 1.5 million bpd and the surface scar is incredible. I can't imagine what that would look like if you tripled it."

Hughes explained the government of Alberta reports 143bn barrels of oil, but "90 per cent of those are too deep to be surface minable. Huge energy inputs are required to get to that. So energy return on investment is going to go down a lot as the tar sands progress. I'll believe they triple it when I see it … frankly I don't think it's possible. This is industry hype they are talking to their shareholders."

The oil in the tar sands also requires time-consuming construction of more infrastructure to support its extraction and delivery, which, along with the aforementioned factors, lead Hughes to believe the tar sands "can't be ramped up enough to offset declines of conventional oil".

link

As Hughes summarizes from the 1st link:

In summary, oil and gas are finite resources that are being consumed at unprecedented and growing rates. Despite what Krauss' article says, the U.S. is the worst offender and is highly vulnerable to future energy price and supply shocks. The growth trajectory of the already high consumption levels in the industrialized world and the rapid growth in consumption in the developing world is patently unsustainable. Articles such as this falsely promote complacency and thus are an extreme disservice to understanding the energy sustainability dilemma facing the World. The premise of this article that the U.S. is approaching “energy independence” could not be further from the truth.

Even the website Peak Oil Debunked has a

DISCLAIMER FOR IDIOTS: This site officially accepts that oil is finite, and will peak someday.

As well, the site offers

THE SOLUTION: ELECTRIFICATION + CONSERVATION

It's becoming increasingly clear that electrification of transport (combined with conservation) is the near-term solution to peak oil. Yes, there are liquid alternatives (ethanol, biodiesel, CTL, GTL), and they will help take the edge off petroleum decline, and play a role in niche applications where liquid fuel is essential.

Electrification = Hybrids + PHEVs (Plug-in Hybrids) + NEVs (Neighborhood Electric Vehicles) + Small EVs + Full-size EV cars + Electric bikes/scooters + Segways + Electric motorcycles + Electric buses + Electric trucks + New electric trains + Electrification of existing diesel train lines

Plus

Conservation = Walking + Bicycles + Mopeds + Scooters + Motorcycles + Carpooling + Van pooling + Telecommuting + Riding the bus + Riding the tram/train/subway + Moving nearer to work + Sleeping at/near work + NGVs + Ultralight/Ultraefficient conventional vehicles + Buying a used compact car as a second vehicle + Buying a moped etc. as a second vehicle + Converting oil-fired generation to coal/nuclear + Jacking up CAFE standards + Increasing downtown parking rates + Lowering speed limits + Compressed work week + etc.


We hear plenty from conservatives about estimates put the amount of oil locked in shale in both Canada and the U.S. at more than 1 trillion barrels. Pulling out even a tenth of that would quadruple our current reserves....
Democratic obstructionism at every turn in the road to more domestic oil production


but when was the last time you heard a so-called conservative promote the concept of conservation when it comes to our consumption habits that are hurtling us towards an unsustainable economic future that dwarfs the problem of the federal budget deficit.
They mock public transportation, the idea of sustainable growth where communities are designed to accomodate energy efficiency, and laughably worship a politician whose husband races snowmobiles thousands of miles across Alaska and deem her a true conservative. What they're really doing is making a mockery of conservatism.







Only the 50 most recent replies are currently shown. Click on this text to display hidden posts as well.
72bibA
      ID: 204511510
      Mon, Jun 09, 2014, 20:24
I did.
73Boldwin
      ID: 4253916
      Mon, Jun 09, 2014, 20:55
They were. Even the people defending the ranch kicked these murder-plotting meth tweakers off of the ranch.

What more you want?
74sarge33rd
      ID: 390471112
      Thu, Jul 24, 2014, 01:37
GOP whining about not enough loans being made to low income minority borrowers...

Hensarling was particularly vocal about the Dodd-Frank law's effect on minority borrowers, claiming a Federal Reserve study shows that "about one-third of blacks and Hispanics would not be able to obtain a mortgage," based on the rule's requirement that monthly borrower debts not exceed 43 percent of monthly income.

That's true, according to the Fed's 2010 data. It's also generally considered bad personal finance to have that much of your income tied up with debt payments.
75Gator
      ID: 13521231
      Thu, Jul 24, 2014, 12:04
Haven't these idiots learned anything? Not exceeding 43 percent of monthly income is fiscally smart. Barney Frank and the GOP members arguing this should be impeached for stupidity. Of course if stupidity was an impeachable offense, we would lose most of Congress and the president.
76sarge33d
      ID: 206272417
      Thu, Jul 24, 2014, 18:27
I think you need to put your unbridled bias away, and reread the article. Frank isnt asking for the 43% figure to be set aside. The Republicans are. Frank, merely commented how "schizo" it is for the GOP to be taking that posture now, after their previous position and allegations.
77Gator
      ID: 13521231
      Thu, Jul 24, 2014, 20:11
I skimmed through the article quickly. It was bad enough I had to agree with Obama on oil exploration, now I have to side with guy that caused the bank failures on this issue.

What the hell is going on? Alien body snatchers have to be taking over Washington. Obama is making intelligent moves on energy, Barney Frank is being fiscally smart and some on the GOP have completely lost their minds.If Sarge makes an intelligent post,then I will know the invasion is rampant and I am building a bunker.
78sarge33d
      ID: 206272417
      Thu, Jul 24, 2014, 20:15
Frank didnt cause the bank failures. That barn door was opened, by Graham-Leach-Bliley. Then GWBs deregulation of the SEC, started chasing the livestock out of the barn.
79Gator
      ID: 13521231
      Thu, Jul 24, 2014, 20:22
I see there is no need for the bunker just yet.
80sarge33rd
      ID: 390471112
      Sat, Jul 26, 2014, 01:54
link

After citing Justice Brandeis’ famous claim that America’s states are laboratories for democracy, Krugman turns to compare and contrast California and Kansas, noting that while the former state has seen economic growth and a successful implementation of Obamacare, the latter has had a stagnant economy and a ballooning deficit.

Not incidentally, these states decided to take opposite approaches to economic policy, with California embracing “a modestly liberal agenda of higher taxes, spending increases and a rise in the minimum wage” while Kansas “went all-in on supply-side economics, slashing taxes on the affluent” only to see paltry growth and a darkening fiscal picture.

“If tax increases are causing a major flight of jobs from California, you can’t see it in the job numbers,” Krugman writes. “Employment is up 3.6 percent in the past 18 months, compared with a national average of 2.8 percent; at this point, California’s share of national employment, which was hit hard by the bursting of the state’s enormous housing bubble, is back to pre-recession levels.”
81Gator
      ID: 13521231
      Sat, Jul 26, 2014, 03:41
Comparing Kansas and California is comparing apples to oranges. California is much larger than Kansas. A better comparison would be ultra conservative Texas.Oops, California lost. That moron, Krugman, is better at propaganda than economics.
82Bean
      ID: 5292191
      Sat, Jul 26, 2014, 10:13
five more labs?

John Stewart featured this topic this week. Ten more democrat senators, wouldn't that be scary?
83sarge33rd
      ID: 390471112
      Sat, Jul 26, 2014, 10:24
No Gator. Krugman and others have addressed TX growth, and it is not attributable to tax differences. You should really try reading before speaking.
84sarge33rd
      ID: 390471112
      Sat, Jul 26, 2014, 10:48
Just as an aside,

since you find the KS example so discomforting and then blame the failure in KS on the states size, are you then admitting that it takes a large geography for the ideals to even begin to function? So that at the state level, unless we are talking TX, CA, AL, then the govt should not be conservative because its just too small?
85sarge33rd
      ID: 86272611
      Sat, Jul 26, 2014, 12:27
AL should be AK...the trouble with typing before coffee
86Perm Dude
      ID: 586411123
      Sat, Jul 26, 2014, 21:28
"California lost." In what way, specifically?
88sarge33rd
      ID: 390471112
      Sun, Jul 27, 2014, 15:47
CA budget...balanced.
Jobs growth...ahead of the national avg.
Housing costs...3 times the national avg and THAT, is why TX job growth currently outpaces that of CA. TX incomes however, are below the national avg. Once folks move there and find out how badly it sucks, they'll leave again.
91Boldwin
      ID: 86222917
      Tue, Jul 29, 2014, 18:27
California and Illinois are the laughingstocks of the nation with runaway public sector expenses. With their benefit packages so bloated and their underfunded pension plans already so far gone those states are dead men walking. Their bond ratings will someday make 2009 derivative junk bonds look like gold bars in comparison.
92Boldwin
      ID: 86222917
      Tue, Jul 29, 2014, 19:01
Do You Live In A Death Spiral State? - Forbes

If you said California or Illinois start packing.

The delusion of liberals is stunning. Imagine touting those states as successes!
93sarge33rd
      ID: 526262911
      Tue, Jul 29, 2014, 19:14
91 and 92, shining examples f selective hearing.

RWNJ dislike CA with such blind hatred, they will blindly deny reality even as it is documented. *shrug*

94Perm Dude
      ID: 586411123
      Tue, Jul 29, 2014, 23:23
"Conservatives": Cherry-picking bad news since January 2009. Today's latest is an opinion piece from 2012...

Here's the actual latest from the same source (Forbes):

If it were a country, California’s $2 trillion economy would be the tenth biggest in the world. The state represents 13% of the U.S. economy. Though California has been under duress in recent years from the dramatic fall in home prices and reduced state tax revenues, its outlook looks bright. Economic and job growth are both expected to be strong over the next five years. Another plus is the $41 billion in venture capital money invested in California companies over the past three years, an amount which is almost five times the total of any other state.

source

Apparently venture capitalists aren't to be trusted. Unless what they do strokes the Right's confirmation bias about Obama, and they they are touted ceaselessly...
95sarge33rd
      ID: 390471112
      Tue, Sep 09, 2014, 00:49
Conservative Navy SEAL Arrested For Fabricating Story About Being Shot By Black Mob


96biliruben
      ID: 561162511
      Tue, Sep 09, 2014, 12:39
You're just pissed because your $40 of "Shock-N-Awe SEAL Whey" didn't inject success directly into your DNA.
97Seattle Zen
      ID: 576301411
      Tue, Sep 09, 2014, 12:49
Morton Downey Jr. Two, Electric Boogaloo.

Nice find, sarge.
98Bean
      ID: 5292191
      Tue, Sep 09, 2014, 13:36
<96> I am sure he will get some kind of reimbursement from the class action suit.
99biliruben
      ID: 561162511
      Tue, Sep 09, 2014, 14:57
"I injected success directly into my DNA!"

"No way!"

"Whey!"
100Bean
      ID: 5292191
      Wed, Sep 10, 2014, 14:15
And just to be sure we all understand that not every vet is an a$$hole worthy of your disgust.

There are these stories

Sweet Dreams kids, dont let the bed bugs bite.


101Pancho Villa
      ID: 2131916
      Wed, Sep 10, 2014, 22:20
Then, there's this story.
102Bean
      ID: 5292191
      Thu, Sep 11, 2014, 15:52
An absurd tradition for certain.

Takes a lot of nerve for the TSgt to make a stand, he may have waited if he were just an E-5, since making E-6 will allow him to retire once he gets his 20 years in.

I cannot bear witness to subjective discrimination that occurs against those who are vocal dissenters of the "perceived company line" in the military. I can tell you, that I would not welcome the distraction as a supervisor/leader. I've got far more important stuff than someone who has his/her pants in a wad over this crap.

Having been an officer, I have sworn in many of my troops (they choose who they want to do it). I cannot recall anyone having a problem with "So help me God". If someone had, I would hope they would have come to me and asked me to omit the words, and I would have been glad to do it.

I am both a Democrat and an atheist, I found no need to make a point to bring that to the attention of anyone while serving my country. If I had, it would have made my life a little more difficult, and would have distracted from the accomplishment of our mission. My philosophical beliefs just aren't all that fantastic, that I feel that I must implant them on everyone I have dominion over. They're like opinions and a$$holes.

The majority of my troops and fellow members felt they needed conservative political and religious affiliation to make them "whole", and if that illusion makes them better airmen then I say, go for it, just dont force your beliefs on anyone else. So, not an issue to me unless it violates Air Force Regulations and/or UCMJ. If someone came to me, and they never did, to complain about some perceived discrimination, I would have taken the appropriate disciplinary actions or counseling, and pointed them to the JAG if they thought I didn't go far enough.

I suspect the TSgt is very much like my older brother, a holier than thou atheist who doesn't know when to shut up. I always say to him, that maybe you don't need religion, but those poor SOBs do. And if we dont let them have it, they might not have a conscience, compassion, an ability to forgive themselves, hope, and a structure for an honest, good path in life. So, don't knock it, we may be surrounded by serial killers without it.
103biliruben
      ID: 28420307
      Thu, Sep 11, 2014, 18:16
I didn't read anywhere that he was trying to not "let them have it".

He just wasn't much interested in lying to get along go along.
104Bean
      ID: 5292191
      Fri, Sep 12, 2014, 12:23
I will say this, if he doesn't win his case, it will be a sad day for this country. The change in regulations was a serious conscious mistake made by some misguided senior officer. It cannot stand.

When he wins his case, it will be a sad day for this country. Not because he isn't right, not because the issue isn't important, but because this is ONE BATTLE THAT THE MILTARY SHOULDN'T BE FIGHTING, YOU CIVILIANS WANT US TO WIPE YOUR ASSES AND KISS YOUR BOOBOOS TOO?. Take this whiny bullshit to the chaplain and get back to work. Or is that perspective just too hard to comprehend?
105Bean
      ID: 5292191
      Fri, Sep 12, 2014, 12:54
Hehe, why haven't the Republicans stepped up on this issue? Obama was CINC, US when the reg got changed, seems like a sure sign of his incompetence and failure to properly lead.
106Bean
      ID: 5292191
      Fri, Sep 12, 2014, 13:37
Just so we all understand how this stuff gets started, blame the meddlers, not the military
107Pancho Villa
      ID: 2131916
      Fri, Sep 12, 2014, 17:19
Take this whiny bullshit to the chaplain and get back to work. Or is that perspective just too hard to comprehend?

That perspective is very easy to comprehend. It's also very easy to completely disagree with it. From the author of the link in #106:

Let’s hope these lawmakers can root out the anti-religious forces that have infiltrated the Air Force Academy. It’s high time someone put a stop to the religious cleansing of the Armed Forces

IOW, either be religious or be subjected to discrimination if you intend on being in the military. Belief or non-belief in religious dogma has absolutely nothing to do with a person's ability to properly fulfill their duties, unless that person happens to be a chaplain.
108Perm Dude
      ID: 431013412
      Fri, Sep 12, 2014, 17:28
#106: From your link, the belief seems to be that this was an editorial mistake (their words), which rebuts your theory of "meddlers."

Nevertheless, the Air Force Academy has long had a history of religious bias.
109Bean
      ID: 5292191
      Fri, Sep 12, 2014, 23:19
<107> The real problem in my mind is that the American public doesn't know what it wants. If we are going to strike the word God from everything we have or do that is offical US government, then make that rule in congress and tell the US military what you decided and we will follow suit. Meanwhile, you have a whole bunch of people in the military just bending to political pressure from those outside on both sides of every issue.

The military has enough to do without the distraction of being the crucible for unresolved social issues. When the civilian world knows what it wants, congress provides direction then the rule is easy to follow.

Who gives a shit sarge, we got enough ammo?

110Bean
      ID: 5292191
      Sat, Sep 13, 2014, 11:13
<108> I live in Colorado Springs (home of USAFA), my father in law was a flying instructor to the cadets, and I am friends with two officers that have been instructors there. In case you were unaware, we have several large evangelist organizations based here, including Focus on the Family (my next door neighbor works for them). For most of our conservative citizens, this is all no big deal, because we are not trigger happy alarmists.

I dont agree with the views of the author of the link in 106. I presented the link so you would understand that the military is not allowed to operate in a vacuum. I also do not believe that a change like that could have been an accidental ommission, though it may have been a failure on the part of a supervisor of the perpetrator of the change to properly "edit" it. That's doubtful, given the concurrent removal of signs.

How the pressures from both the right and the left could result in such huge policy swings, due simply to a change of command of the organization is hard to comprehend.

What's absurd to me is how a simple policy of let the member decide what the oath says or doesn't say became such a political football that some misguided senior officer felt he/she had to direct HIS choice through an Air Force wide regulation change. What was wrong with leaving it as member's choice and avoid the entire silly argument? Who really gives a damn, shut up and color kids.

PV, PD, bili. Any of you ever served?


111Perm Dude
      ID: 431013412
      Sat, Sep 13, 2014, 11:53
Briefly in college, in the Air Force ROTC program in Cincinnati.

My service is moot, however, in discussing a pervasive climate of religious pressure in an organization which should actively reject such pressures. But doesn't.

Maybe because some, like yourself, are convinced the problem is outsiders, while there is plenty of evidence that the pressure is within the organization and is nurtured and sustained in ways and levels that the other armed forces branches aren't seeing.
112Bean
      ID: 598101311
      Sat, Sep 13, 2014, 12:16
I would argue that context and familiarity are not moot. If you haven't served there are many things you don't understand. I am trying to ascertain how much explaining I must do to educate you.

In Mazlov's hierarchy, religious freedom is way the hell down there. We need to prepare these kids for something far more devastating than some name calling by their peers or their parents failure to teach them manners. We simply don't need the distractions that this issue brings.

Quick, what's the last word of the National Anthem?

If you need moral support son, go talk to the chaplain, we don't have time for this.
113biliruben
      ID: 258431310
      Sat, Sep 13, 2014, 13:50
Nope.

My dad was a pilot in the AF, and we buried my grandpa (amongst much religious pageantry) at West Point, but I don't know danky about athiests and foxholes and all that.
114Perm Dude
      ID: 431013412
      Sat, Sep 13, 2014, 14:32
I think you are missing the point in your efforts to circle the wagons, Bean. Is there some context I'm missing that, were I an insider, that forcing people into a particular religion as a condition of being an airman is OK?

It is wrong to proselytize in the armed forces, and no amount of "you just don't understand because you aren't in there" makes it right.
115Bean
      ID: 5292191
      Sat, Sep 13, 2014, 15:14
re-read 102 and 104, I haven't missed anything.

What I am concerned with is that someone is trying to turn some BS issue into "the military is evil" and is conspiring to undermine the fabric of our civilization.

I dont see it any different than the view that the "militarization" of US police forces are somehow some kind of conspiracy to take away all of our rights. All of this is once again over reaction to some news that someone screwed up.

I say again, who gives a shit. Want to fix this, give the atheists their own chaplain, so when they start whining they know who to cry to. The chaplains have been trained in handling this stuff. The JAG knows the law and his door is open to everyone too. They'll stroke this child just right, he'll grow to be a man, and we wont have to wet nurse him anymore.

Let me give you another point of reference. My wife used to have a stuffed tiger in her kindergarten room. It's name was Tattle Tale Tommy the Tiger, we'll call him the Kindergarten Chaplain, OK?

Do you really have a problem with what I am saying to you? Am I not being sensitive to your needs somehow? If so, go see your minister and tell him about it and contact your lawyer so he can explain the law to you. Ask them both to kiss your booboo. I got more important stuff to do, like work on my fantasy football teams, hehe.
116sarge33rd
      ID: 118491316
      Sat, Sep 13, 2014, 17:49
Who gives a shit sarge, we got enough ammo?

Define "enough".


Having been Atheist my entire military career, and having returned to the Church just a few years ago, I can see both sides on this issue. To have the phrase AS AN OPTION, is as it should be. To REQUIRE it, is IMHO, unconstitutional and doomed to lose in court. An unfortunate waste of time and resources to try and defend.

Cant JCOS change this with a directive?
117sarge33rd
      ID: 390471112
      Sat, Oct 04, 2014, 21:34
Denver Schoolboard member behind the proposed changes in the curriculum, showing just how fkn stupid she is...on FOX of course


What in the name of God is a "foundational father" and since when was Martin Luther King Jr one of them???
118Perm Dude
      ID: 431013412
      Sun, Oct 05, 2014, 00:10
She seems weirdly unable to articulate something she clearly wants us to think is incredibly important.
119biliruben
      ID: 39256112
      Sat, Apr 11, 2015, 09:10
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/10/opinion/remains-from-lincolns-last-day.html?hpw&rref=opinion&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=well-region®ion=bottom-well&WT.nav=bottom-well

Did the real Republican party die on April 14th, 150 years ago?

Could the Republicans who control Congress in 2015, the party of no, ever pass a Homestead Act? That law, which went into effect the very day, Jan. 1, 1863, Lincoln’s wartime executive order to free slaves in the breakaway states did, carries a clause that very few Republicans would support now.

Former slaves, “famine Irish,” Russian Jews, single women, Mexicans who didn’t speak a word of English — all qualified to claim 160 acres as their own. You didn’t have to be a citizen to get your quarter-square-mile. You just had to intend to become a citizen.

In that sense, the Homestead Act was the Dream Act of today. It had a path to citizenship and prosperity for those in this country who were neither citizens nor prosperous.

Consider the vision to stitch a railroad from east to west, an enormous tangle of infrastructure. In 1862, Lincoln signed legislation spurring construction of the transcontinental railroad. That same year, he approved a bill that led to the creation of land grant colleges.

Today, Congress will not even approve enough money to keep decrepit bridges from falling down, and has whittled away funds to help working kids stay in college. It’s laughable to think of Republicans’ approving of something visionary and forward-looking in the realm of transportation, energy or education. Government, in their minds, can never be a force for good.
120sarge33rd
      ID: 390471112
      Sat, Apr 11, 2015, 10:28
The Republicans of today bili, are much more akin to the Confederates. Out to destroy the Federal governments power, disrupt the union, and ultimately neuter the national identity.
121Boldwin
      ID: 112382716
      Sat, Apr 11, 2015, 11:05
It is impossible to think of Lincoln spending 16 trillion dollars the country didn't have.
122Boldwin
      ID: 112382716
      Sat, Apr 11, 2015, 11:11
Or inviting in ten million welfare free-loaders who had no intention of assimilating.
123biliruben
      ID: 229341622
      Sat, Apr 11, 2015, 11:20
That's exactly what the racists said in 1863, I'm sure.
124biliruben
      ID: 229341622
      Sat, Apr 11, 2015, 11:23
But we were lucky enough not to have them in the Union at the time.

Now they are pretty much the heart of the Republican party.
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