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0 Subject: Marijuana in the news

Posted by: Seattle Zen
- [17231110] Fri, Mar 19, 2004, 19:19



Madman, are you behind this?

Advocates for using marijuana as a doctor-prescribed pain reliever finally got the legal OK on Friday to begin collecting signatures to put an initiated act on the Nov. 2 election ballot.

After more than four months of rejecting the proposed act over ambiguous language, Attorney General Mike Beebe agreed to the latest wording of the popular name of "The Arkansas Medical Marijuana Act" and its ballot title.

With the approval of the wording, Campbell's group now has a relatively short time to gather signatures needed to place the proposed act on the ballot. The alliance must turn in at least 64,456 signatures of registered Arkansas voters on its petition to the secretary of state by July 2.


Piece of cake. We had to gather 17,200 signatures from voters in just one city.

Seattle Zen
"Imagine the outcry if IRS staff traveled the country arguing against tax cuts at the state level! Drug laws, like virtually all criminal laws, are wholly the province of states. Neither Congress nor any administration had the authority to create and fund a federal drug-war cheerleading agency." - Ron Paul (R)Texas
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335Seattle Zen
      ID: 49112418
      Wed, Dec 27, 2006, 11:27


It has been 10 years since California approved Proposition 215 — the Compassionate Use Act — becoming the first state to define marijuana as a medicine. Today, about 200,000 Californians have a doctor's permission to use cannabis, which they can obtain through more than 250 dispensaries, delivery services and patient collectives — 120 of them in Los Angeles County alone. Medical marijuana, activists say, has become a $1-billion business.
San Francisco — Kevin Reed launched his medical marijuana business two years ago, armed with big dreams and an Excel spreadsheet.

Happy customers at his Green Cross cannabis club were greeted by "bud tenders" and glass jars brimming with high-quality weed at red-tag prices. They hailed the slender, gentle Southerner as a ganja good Samaritan. Though Reed set out to run it like a Walgreens, his tiny storefront shop ended up buzzing with jazzy joie de vivre. Turnover was Starbucks-style: On a good day, $30,000 in business would walk through the black, steel-gated front door.

Today, the 32-year-old cannabis capitalist is looking for a job, his business undone by its own success and unexpected opposition in one of America's most proudly tolerant places. Critics in nearby Victorian homes called Reed a neighborhood nuisance. Although four of five San Francisco voters support medical marijuana, the realities of dispensing the contentious medicine have proved far more controversial.
336sarge33rd
      ID: 99331714
      Wed, Dec 27, 2006, 11:41
NIMBY?
337Seattle Zen
      ID: 49112418
      Thu, Jan 18, 2007, 14:03
I've avoided posting every time the DEA has raided dispensaries in California because there have been so many recently, it's quite depressing.

However, this is the first dispensary in Washington to ever get raided. The good news is the officers were not Feds.
Drug enforcement agents raided the Everett headquarters of an advocacy group for medical marijuana patients, confiscating what police documents say was more than 1,000 plants and computers that the owners say contain personal information of about 200 men and women authorized to use the drug for medicinal purposes.

Long a thorn in the side of law enforcement for his vocal, thumb-in-the-eye advocacy style, Sarich, 56, insists that the government is merely harassing patients -- himself included -- who have a legitimate right to use the drug for managing pain due to multiple sclerosis, cancer and a host of other illnesses.

He wasn't just a thorn in the side of law enforcement, the cannabis legalization community wasn't too happy with is style either. He was insulting to just about anyone who didn't agree with his reckless behavior. No one is happy that he was raided but few people will stand up for him.

Here's a great story about the effects of Proposition Y's passage in Santa Monica.

Here is the funniest story from Stanford's student newspaper about the CMD - Campus Marijuana Dealer aka The Pot Provost
That’s where the Pot Provost comes in. Let’s call him Roland, a composite of several helpful young men (and the occasional woman) I’ve had the pleasure to meet here at the Farm (only for research, officer, I swears it). If Roland were lazy, which comes with the territory, then he’d have been kicked out of several dorms for stupid mistakes (“That? That’s just a lamp.”), whipslashed from Roble to Cedro to Manzanita, perhaps even expelled for a year. If Roland were greedy, he’d have moved from semi-legal drugs to quite illegal drugs (the kind that gives you nosebleeds and supplements anorexia), smoked-snorted-ingested his own stash, become paranoid that the cops are onto him — which they are. But Roland is smart, kind, quick to grin. He only sells to his friends, and you are his friend, because to know Roland is to love him. Calling him a drug dealer seems so drab; calling him a criminal is simply bad manners. For a hyperactive, heavily-caffeinated, type-A culture like ours, Roland is Doctor Feelgood, giving you a mandatory dosage of Chill-The-Fu¢k-Out. Unlike Santa Claus (that fascist), Roland doesn’t care if you’ve been naughty or nice. Roland, like anyone with half a brain, knows that the good things in life come in shades of gray.
338Seattle Zen
      ID: 49112418
      Mon, Jan 22, 2007, 18:08


Details, Details, Details...

DOPE WITH A DOCTOR'S NOTE California’s pot smokers are sparking a new gold rush for the state’s potent medical marijuana.
In 1996, California passed the Compassionate Use Act (Proposition 215), granting physicians the authority to recommend weed for "any . . . illness for which marijuana would provide relief." For eight years, the typical state-sanctioned cannabis consumer, of whom there were about 30,000, was a gravely ill patient. But no longer. Thanks to recent clarifications of Prop 215 (and a U.S. district court injunction protecting pot docs), the threat of arrest has nearly vanished. Since 2004, an estimated 250,000 new "patients" have discreetly boarded the brownie bus, many of them enthusiasts who pay up to a few hundred dollars a year for doctor's notes that permit them to buy rarefied weed at a cannabis club. The doctors' "recommendations" ostensibly combat such ailments as insomnia and headaches. One pioneering pot doc wrote notes to "treat" stuttering, writer's cramp, and corns.

For pot smokers with careers to protect, the license to ward off cops (and bypass dealers) is a strong incentive to buy doctor's notes. "I'm too old to start a police record," says "Chris," a 35-year-old e-commerce senior developer. "A lot of my close friends now have the get-out-of-jail-free card."

"It used to be that physicians only wanted the wheelchair patients," says Jean Talleyrand, 39, an Ivy League–educated pot doc in the Bay Area. "But now that the movement has gained traction, the landscape is different. A surprising number of our patients are highly successful young professionals who would simply rather sidle up to a bong than a bottle."

Obviously I have no problem with healthy adults responsibly enjoying cannabis and everyone should be able to buy top shelf grade stuff at a local distributor without fear of the police, but I do take issue with what's going on in CA. When I advocate for medical marijuana laws I am honest. I believe that patients should be allowed to grow and possess this medicine. The changes in the laws I advocate limit the scope to those who are ill. For people to take advantage of the situation is to risk serious backlash. Supermajorities of people are in favor of legal medical marijuana for those who are ill. We haven't got the numbers yet regarding adult personal non-medical use. We will get there, but we're not there yet. Let's pass the medical marijuana laws, abide by them, not abuse them, and work on convincing the remaining people that even healthy people can benefit from sucking down fat bong hits of Sour Diesel.
339Seattle Zen
      ID: 46315247
      Sat, Feb 03, 2007, 20:43
Here's a great editorial from James K. Polk's rag The Spokesman-Review

Since few of you are registered, I'll include it en toto right here:

MEDICAL MARIJUANA USERS NEED PROTECTION

Sharon Tracy "may have been exactly the kind of patient the voters of this state had in mind when they enacted the medical marijuana initiative, I-692."

So said the Washington State Supreme Court in a Nov. 22 ruling about a woman who suffers from, among other things, diabetes, heart disease, degenerating discs in her back, a hip deformity, and who has had a series of eight corrective surgeries for a ruptured colon and bowel conditions. On her doctor's recommendation, Sharon Tracy was using marijuana to treat her pain.

Nevertheless, Skamania County saw fit to arrest and prosecute her, and the Supreme Court saw fit to uphold her conviction, all because her doctor got his license in California instead of Washington. Now she is serving home detention in Stevenson, more than 25 miles from the nearest hospital, and her felony conviction means that she'll no longer be able to help out at the day care at her church.

Prosecuting Sharon Tracy and monitoring her through the department of corrections is probably not the way most taxpayers want their money spent. And, as the court pointed out, it is clearly not what Washington voters had in mind when they voted for Washington's medical marijuana initiative. Those voters recognized that protecting people like Sharon Tracy from prosecution and jail time is a matter of compassion, common sense and fiscal responsibility.

However, law enforcement and the courts have had difficulty honoring the voters' will. Time and again, the people whom the law was meant to protect find themselves in handcuffs or worse. A Centralia man, the caretaker for a muscular dystrophy patient, was arrested and prosecuted for possessing that patient's medical marijuana (which was then confiscated) - even though the law explicitly allows him to do so. A Bremerton woman who has lupus and a doctor's recommendation for medical marijuana was arrested and prosecuted for possessing a pipe with nothing but marijuana residue in it. There are stories like these all across Washington.

If we want to make sure that the law does what it was intended to do - that is, to protect patients and caregivers from unnecessary and cruel prosecution - we need to make some changes.

The law needs to be clarified so that those who follow the rules can avoid arrest, not just conviction. As it stands, the law provides only a defense at trial.

The law needs to be clarified so that qualifying patients and caregivers can create community medical gardens, providing the intangible benefits of community support and ensuring that all patients who need medical marijuana have access to it. Growing marijuana is an expensive, time-consuming endeavor - frequently too much for a sick patient too handle alone. If one of your elderly relatives learned she needed chemotherapy in a week, and her doctor recommended marijuana for the nausea, do you think she'd be able to grow what she needs in seven days? If she could join a community garden, she'd be sure to have her medicine when the treatments began.

The law needs to be clarified to protect employees who use medical marijuana. Employees who treat their pain with cannabis on a doctor's recommendation should not be treated any differently from employees who treat their pain with opiate-based drugs like codeine on their doctor's recommendation. Testing positive for following your doctor's advice shouldn't mean losing your job.

The law should be clarified so that doctors' expert opinions are given their due. Washington respects a California doctor's opinion that a patient will benefit from conventional painkillers; it should also respect that same doctor's opinion that another patient would benefit instead from medical marijuana.

It's too late for our medical marijuana law to protect Sharon Tracy, but Gov. Gregoire should issue a commutation so she can return to California to care for her very ill mother, and a pardon to rid her of the felony conviction that prevents her from working with children. Just as importantly our Legislature needs to make sure that future patients don't have to undergo her ordeal. It's a simple decision - compassion, common sense and fiscal responsibility tell us that it makes no sense to prosecute and jail sick people for pursuing doctor-recommended medication. Let's do the right thing and protect Washington's medical marijuana patients.
340Motley Crue
      Dude
      ID: 439372011
      Sun, Feb 04, 2007, 09:36
I have to think there's more to the story than that column explained about Sharon Tracy. Law enforcement rarely has time to be that overzealous. Regardless, in the big picture, it's really quite stupid to enact legislation and then allow law enforcement officers to find ways to circumvent it. I agree with the paper's suggestion that the Governor of Washington ought to get involved in that case immediately. Unless, you know, the lady was sharing her stash with the kids in the daycare, or something like that.
341Seattle Zen
      ID: 46315247
      Sun, Feb 04, 2007, 14:41
My good friend Douglas Hiatt was one of her attorneys and I can attest that she is completely honest and forthright. She was not one of those "Yeah I'm 'ill' but not too sick to PARTY!" types.
342Seattle Zen
      ID: 46315247
      Sun, Feb 04, 2007, 14:49
John Stossell, whom I generally loath, takes the "Big Government Republicans and their DEA goons" to task
U.S. drug agents launched raids on 11 medical-marijuana centers in Los Angeles County. The U.S. attorney's office says they violated the laws against cultivation and distribution of marijuana. Whatever happened to America's federal system, which recognized the states as "laboratories of democracy"? The U.S. government says its drug laws trump the states' laws, and in 2005, the Supreme Court agreed. This is not the way it was supposed to work. The constitutional plan presented in the Federalist Papers delegated only a few powers to the federal government, with the rest reserved to the states. The system was hailed for its genius. Instead of having decisions made in the center -- where errors would harm the entire country -- most policies would be determined in a decentralized environment. A mistake in California would affect only Californians. New Yorkers, Ohioans, and others could try something else. Everyone would learn and benefit from the various experiments. It made a lot of sense. It still does. Too bad the idea is being tossed on the trash heap by big-government Republicans and their DEA goons. Drug prohibition -- like alcohol prohibition -- is a silly idea, as the late free-market economist Milton Friedman often pointed out. Something doesn't go away just because the government decrees it illegal. It simply goes underground. Then a black market creates worse problems. Since sellers cannot rely on police to protect their property, they arm themselves, form gangs, charge monopoly prices, and kill their competitors. Buyers steal to pay the high prices.
343Myboyjack
      Dude
      ID: 014826271
      Sun, Feb 04, 2007, 14:52
An overbearing Federal government does create strange bedfellows, SZ.
344Perm Dude
      ID: 28139414
      Sun, Feb 04, 2007, 15:39
I think that's probably right, MBJ.

Remember: This is a guy who says global warming doesn't exist. That we should have a market for human organs. And that you should be allowed to marry your cousin (because, after all, Einstein's parents were cousins and look at him!). He's been a shill for corporate rights as the means to protecting individual liberty for a long time.
345Seattle Zen
      ID: 46315247
      Sun, Feb 11, 2007, 22:54
Colorado Springs, CO: Supporters believe marijuana's medicinal value is worth all the battles
James and Lisa Masters were preparing to take their daughters fishing on the morning of Aug. 2, 2006, when two social workers and two police officers knocked on their door.

"We were just finishing folding laundry, getting ready for the day," says James, "and we had just recently medicated."

They had picked a bad time to take their medicine. Both of the Masterses are medical marijuana patients, whose doctors recommend they get high to treat various physical and neurological illnesses.

The social workers raised allegations of child abuse and neglect toward the Masterses' daughters, ages 4 and 6. The police officers, who the Masterses were told came along in case the parents got violent — perhaps in a fit of reefer madness — smelled the weed.

Inside, the Masterses had 18 marijuana plant clones and an imminent harvest of 12 2-foot-high, bud-laden plants, which they say were for people suffering from glaucoma, cancer, HIV, multiple sclerosis and other crippling diseases.

The Masterses' home was serving as the Larimer County chapter of the Colorado Compassion Club, a statewide network whose members provide quality weed for medical marijuana patients, including themselves. Though the couple had doctors' recommendations for the medicinal crop, as allowed through a state constitutional amendment, the Larimer County Drug Task Force snagged the pot — and Child Protection Services snagged the Masterses' daughters. They were separated from their parents for nearly two months before being returned with no neglect or abuse charges.

There's a story Baldwin and I can agree on.
346Perm Dude
      ID: 38146128
      Mon, Feb 12, 2007, 17:44
Really?

[not a reply to the above post]
347Seattle Zen
      ID: 49112418
      Mon, Feb 12, 2007, 18:28
Re post 300 - Great news

DEA Administrative Law Judge Mary Ellen Bittner has ruled today in favor of Lyle Craker/MAPS in an 87-page decision. Docket No. 05-16 In the Matter of Lyle E. Craker, Ph.D.

Here's the gist:

"I conclude that granting Respondent's application would not be inconsistent with the Single Convention, that there would be minimal risk of diversion of marijuana resulting from Respondent's registration, that there is currently an inadequate supply of marijuana available for research purposes, that competition in the provision of marijuana for such purposes is inadequate, and that Respondent has complied with applicable laws and has never been convicted of any violation of any law pertaining to controlled substances. I therefore find that Respondent's registration to cultivate marijuana would be in the public interest."
348Toral
      ID: 52621719
      Wed, Feb 14, 2007, 20:24
Margaret Trudeau (former wife of Pierre Trudeau) says heavy use of weed contributed to her mental illness.
349Seattle Zen
      ID: 46315247
      Mon, Feb 26, 2007, 02:18
Ill should not have to fear a drug bust
[Sen. Jeanne Kohl-Welles', D-Seattle' Senate Bill 6032] would permit patients or caregivers to pool resources in growing marijuana ("We could have a P-patch"). She would ensure that patients who are able to produce authorizing paperwork would not be arrested. She would add conditions, including Hepatitis C, where marijuana can be prescribed.

Great article on a very beneficial Senate Bill here in WA.
350Seattle Zen
      ID: 49112418
      Fri, Mar 16, 2007, 14:00
Angel Raich is back in the headlines.

On Wednesday, the Ninth Circuit turned away another constitutional challenge to the federal ban on using cannabis for medical purposes. Its decision revealed a glaring weakness in how the Supreme Court protects liberty under the Constitution.

Since the entire article is password protected, I'll include it here.

REEFER MADNESS

On Wednesday, the Ninth Circuit turned away another constitutional challenge to the federal ban on using cannabis for medical purposes. Its decision revealed a glaring weakness in how the Supreme Court protects liberty under the Constitution.

Angel Raich is a seriously ill 41-year-old mother of two who, in 2002, sought an injunction allowing her to use cannabis to alleviate intense pain, and relief from a life-threatening, wasting syndrome. She prevailed in the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals. But the Supreme Court in 2005 rejected her argument that the application of the federal Controlled Substances Act (CSA) to the personal cultivation, possession and use of state-authorized cannabis for medical purposes was unconstitutional because it exceeded the power of Congress to "regulate commerce . . . among the several states." Justices O'Connor and Thomas, joined by Chief Justice Rehnquist, passionately dissented. On remand, Ms. Raich renewed her alternate theory that the CSA's complete ban on the medical use of cannabis also violated her fundamental right to preserve her life, as protected by the Due Process Clause of the Fifth Amendment. This week, the Ninth Circuit rejected this claim -- but held out some hope that, if criminally prosecuted, Ms. Raich qualified for the defense of "necessity."

According to this doctrine, when a person is forced to choose between her life and disobeying a criminal law, she may not be punished for preserving her life. Though not entitling Ms. Raich to an injunction against the CSA, the court strongly indicated she could assert a necessity defense to any future federal criminal prosecution. The Ninth Circuit thereby offered a potential lifeline to other criminal defendants who can prove that they, like Ms. Raich, have no other choice but to use cannabis to save their lives. Nevertheless, the rejection of Ms. Raich's constitutional claim highlights a serious problem with the Supreme Court's current approach to protecting liberty under the Due Process Clauses of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments. Ever since the New Deal, the Court will only consider challenges to a law if the liberty being restricted is a "fundamental right." Unless the liberty is characterized by the Court as "fundamental," it will not evaluate or "scrutinize" the government's claim that its restrictions are truly necessary. With laws restricting mere "liberty interests" not deemed fundamental, the Court will blindly accept the government's claim that its restriction is "reasonable."

In short, to get into "Scrutiny Land" -- where the government is forced to justify its restrictions on liberty -- a person such as Ms. Raich must jump through the hoop of showing that the liberty she claims is fundamental. Otherwise she automatically loses.

So what, you ask, makes some liberties fundamental and others not? According to the Supreme Court, either the right must be "implicit in the concept of ordered liberty" or it must be "deeply rooted in the Nation's history and traditions." Under either formulation, however, how a right or liberty is defined makes all the difference. Because the very same act may be accurately defined either narrowly or broadly, a court's choice of definition will dictate the outcome of the case.

Here's how. Angel Raich contended that using the CSA against her infringed her right to preserve her life. If any right is fundamental, this one is: the right to "life" is specifically mentioned in the Due Process Clause itself, and even the federal Partial Birth Abortion Act, like the abortion law struck down in Roe v. Wade, includes an exception to its ban when the procedure is necessary to protect "the life of a mother." So if the right at issue in Ms. Raich's case is the right to preserve her life, she has jumped through the fundamental rights hoop and entered Scrutiny Land.

How does the government respond to this? By claiming that the liberty in question is the right to use cannabis for medical purposes, which it denies is either "implicit in the concept of ordered liberty" or "deeply rooted in the nation's history or traditions." Setting aside the embarrassing historical facts that marijuana was completely unregulated in the United States until the mid-20th century, and was widely used as a medication for most of our history, it is still obviously much harder to claim that a right to use cannabis for medical purposes meets either of these tests, at least as compared with a right to preserve one's life.

Given that everything turns on the description of the right, which one is correct? The dirty little secret of constitutional law is that they are both right. Ms. Raich is preserving her life and she is using cannabis for medical purposes. Because whether a liberty gets protected under the Due Process Clause depends on which accurate description a court chooses to accept, a court may rule however it wishes simply by choosing how to describe the right.

When the Ninth Circuit accepted the government's description of the right in question, the outcome followed like night follows day -- because a "right to use cannabis for medical purposes" is not deeply rooted, etc., it was not fundamental. Because it was not fundamental, Ms. Raich could not enter Scrutiny Land, and her challenge failed.

Had the court chosen her description of the right in question, Ms. Raich would still need to show at trial that she must use cannabis to survive. Since the court accepted the government's description, she won't get that chance. Case closed.

Why accept the government's description rather than Ms. Raich's? The Ninth Circuit relied on the 1997 right-to-die case of Washington v. Glucksburg, which, according to the Ninth Circuit, "instructs courts to adopt a narrow definition of the interest at stake" (emphasis added). Not so. Actually, Glucksburg requires a "careful description of the asserted fundamental liberty interest" (emphasis added). And in the 2003 case of Lawrence v. Texas the Supreme Court defined the liberty unconstitutionally infringed by anti-sodomy laws quite broadly, as "a personal relationship that, whether or not entitled to formal recognition in the law, is within the liberty of persons to choose without being punished as criminals." The Ninth Circuit is not alone, however, in ignoring Lawrence when interpreting Glucksburg and equating "careful" with "narrow." But see how this loads the dice? Because a "narrow" right is unlikely to be found to be deeply rooted in history or tradition, the Supreme Court has cleverly devised a way to avoid scrutinizing the reasonableness of most restrictions on liberty. And so Angel Raich lost her claim.

The Ninth Circuit did suggest that, because it would be supported by what Lawrence called an "emerging consensus," even a narrowly defined right to use medical cannabis might one day be found to be fundamental if more states allow medical cannabis: "For now, federal law is blind to the wisdom of a future day when the right to use medical marijuana to alleviate excruciating pain may be deemed fundamental. Although that day has not yet dawned, considering that during the last 10 years 11 states have legalized the use of medical marijuana, that day may be upon us sooner than expected. Until that day arrives, federal law does not recognize a fundamental right to use medical marijuana prescribed by a licensed physician to alleviate excruciating pain and human suffering." The last sentence is the court's, not mine.

Mr. Barnett is a professor at Georgetown University Law Center and the author of "Restoring the Lost Constitution: The Presumption of Liberty" (Princeton, 2004). He represents Angel Raich.
351Tree
      ID: 29082512
      Fri, Mar 16, 2007, 14:29
come on - you're two days late on this SZ. i had this in the other thread on Wednesday... ;o)
352Seattle Zen
      ID: 49112418
      Fri, Mar 16, 2007, 14:39
Yeah, you had a boring Yahoo article, this is an excellent piece written by her attorney.
353Baldwin
      ID: 3503618
      Fri, Mar 16, 2007, 16:05
Ever run across someone who was fundamentally opposed to MJ use but who discovered for their own medical condition it was the only thing that worked and that MJ pills didn't? I just don't know that I trust these cases not to be potheads in the first place before the condition arose.
354Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 01629107
      Fri, Mar 16, 2007, 16:15
Re 51-52, Yahoo articles also disappear after a few weeks.
355Baldwin
      ID: 3503618
      Fri, Mar 16, 2007, 16:24
True story: I know a guy who contracted some bizarre virus infection of his sinusses that got so bad it was causing nerve problems and nearly made him go blind. Claims it's some Gulf war thing. His vision actually started to roll like a TV out of sync once. Didn't even know that was possible.

Anyway he claims that this condition gets worse if he doesn't smoke. Goes on about what he calls 'blood slivers' whatever the heck that would be.

Think the anti-smoking zealots would give this guy a pass?
356Seattle Zen
      ID: 49112418
      Fri, Mar 16, 2007, 16:59
Re: 353

Absolutely. Many, many people who get seriously ill are quite old, as you might imagine. People over 65 have the lowest rate of "have you ever used marijuana" in America since marijuana usage was very rare when they were young. These people usually are very reluctant to try marijuana medicinally because they have very negative connotations with the herb. Some family member ends up cajoling the seriously ill person to try and once they have relieved the painful symptoms, they eagerly ask for more. These people often are too embarrassed to speak publicly about their new found help as they still believe in the negative stereotypes. Others are so amazed by the transformative healing power that they lobby Congress and statehouses to change the laws. I know numerous people who had never smoked marijuana before coming ill, who were actually very much against marijuana, who became marijuana advocates.

I doubt that this changes your mind, Baldy, as you have made this claim before. You suffer from a government orchestrated disinformation campaign which you conveniently agree with as it allows you to dismiss a class of people whom you loath, liberal "hippies". There are tons of stories about straight and narrow folks who have had family members benefit from medicinal marijuana and you don't want to hear about it.
357Baldwin
      ID: 3503618
      Fri, Mar 16, 2007, 18:35
and you don't want to hear about it

Are you hearing impaired? Blind? Did I not just ask for examples?

And these people, who you know personally, tried the pills and they didn't work? Don't guess here, you know for a fact they tried and were disappointed?
358Seattle Zen
      ID: 49112418
      Fri, Mar 16, 2007, 18:47
I know many people who tried the pills and not one of them liked them at all. Each one of them complained that the pills made them way too stoned. Because the pills take a long time to work after ingestion, you have to keep a heavy dose going in order to avoid the symptoms coming back. I'm not guessing, I've been told personally.

Not everyone who is a medical marijuana patient has tried the pills, they do not have to. First, many people who are going through chemo cannot keep pills down. Cannabis smoke is a great antienemic - it keeps you from vomiting. Second, cannabis smoke/vapor is very fast acting and the effects are easily regulated by the user. If you are feeling an increase in symptoms, you can immediate relieve yourself with a hit. Third, you can grow cannabis very cheaply, Marinol is not cheap.
359Baldwin
      ID: 3503618
      Fri, Mar 16, 2007, 18:50
you have to keep a heavy dose going in order to avoid the symptoms coming back

Thank you for verifying that the pills emeliorate the symptoms. I didn't ask if they 'liked' them.
360Seattle Zen
      ID: 49112418
      Fri, Mar 16, 2007, 18:55
Not everyone said their symptoms were ameliorated. Furthermore, I've spoken to less than a dozen people who have tried Marinol and you don't have to be Biliruben to know that is hardly enough of a sample size to draw any conclusions. But jump right ahead.
361Baldwin
      ID: 3503618
      Fri, Mar 16, 2007, 19:09
I'm just trying to get a handle on a slippery issue from sources with massive agendas and reasons to spin the story.
362walk
      ID: 259313119
      Sun, Mar 18, 2007, 18:48
Bong Hits for Jesus

March 18, 2007
Free-Speech Case Divides Bush and Religious Right
By LINDA GREENHOUSE


WASHINGTON, March 17 — A Supreme Court case about the free-speech rights of high school students, to be argued on Monday, has opened an unexpected fissure between the Bush administration and its usual allies on the religious right.

As a result, an appeal that asks the justices to decide whether school officials can squelch or punish student advocacy of illegal drugs has taken on an added dimension as a window on an active front in the culture wars, one that has escaped the notice of most people outside the fray. And as the stakes have grown higher, a case that once looked like an easy victory for the government side may prove to be a much closer call.

On the surface, Joseph Frederick’s dispute with his principal, Deborah Morse, at the Juneau-Douglas High School in Alaska five years ago appeared to have little if anything to do with religion — or perhaps with much of anything beyond a bored senior’s attitude and a harried administrator’s impatience.

As the Olympic torch was carried through the streets of Juneau on its way to the 2002 winter games in Salt Lake City, students were allowed to leave the school grounds to watch. The school band and cheerleaders performed. With television cameras focused on the scene, Mr. Frederick and some friends unfurled a 14-foot-long banner with the inscription: “Bong Hits 4 Jesus.”

Mr. Frederick later testified that he designed the banner, using a slogan he had seen on a snowboard, “to be meaningless and funny, in order to get on television.” Ms. Morse found no humor but plenty of meaning in the sign, recognizing “bong hits” as a slang reference to using marijuana. She demanded that he take the banner down. When he refused, she tore it down, ordered him to her office, and gave him a 10-day suspension.

Mr. Fredericks’s ensuing lawsuit and the free-speech court battle that resulted, in which he has prevailed so far, is one that, classically, pits official authority against student dissent. It is the first Supreme Court case to do so directly since the court upheld the right of students to wear black arm bands to school to protest the war in Vietnam, declaring in Tinker v. Des Moines School District that “it can hardly be argued that either students or teachers shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate.”

The court followed that 1969 decision with two others during the 1980s that upheld the authority of school officials to ban vulgar or offensive student speech and to control the content of school newspapers. Clearly there is some tension in the court’s student-speech doctrine; what message to extract from the trio of decisions is the basic analytical question in the new case, Morse v. Frederick, No. 06-278. What is most striking is how the two sides line up.

The Bush administration entered the case on the side of the principal and the Juneau School Board, which are both represented by Kenneth W. Starr, the former solicitor general and independent counsel. His law firm, Kirkland & Ellis, is handling the appeal without a fee. Mr. Starr and Edwin S. Kneedler, a deputy solicitor general who will present the government’s view, will share argument time on Monday. The National School Board Association, two school principals’ groups, and several antidrug organizations also filed briefs on the school board’s side.

While it is hardly surprising to find the American Civil Liberties Union and the National Coalition Against Censorship on Mr. Frederick’s side, it is the array of briefs from organizations that litigate and speak on behalf of the religious right that has lifted Morse v. Frederick out of the realm of the ordinary.

The groups include the American Center for Law and Justice, founded by the Rev. Pat Robertson; the Christian Legal Society; the Alliance Defense Fund, an organization based in Arizona that describes its mission as “defending the right to hear and speak the Truth”; the Rutherford Institute, which has participated in many religion cases before the court; and Liberty Legal Institute, a nonprofit law firm “dedicated to the preservation of First Amendment rights and religious freedom.”

The institute, based in Plano, Tex., told the justices in its brief that it was “gravely concerned that the religious freedom of students in public schools will be damaged” if the court rules for the school board.

Lawyers on Mr. Frederick’s side offer a straightforward explanation for the strange-bedfellows aspect of the case. “The status of being a dissident unites dissidents on either side,” said Prof. Douglas Laycock of the University of Michigan Law School, an authority on constitutional issues involving religion who worked on Liberty Legal Institute’s brief.

In an interview, Professor Laycock said that religiously observant students often find the atmosphere in public school to be unwelcoming and “feel themselves a dissident and excluded minority.” As the Jehovah’s Witnesses did in the last century, these students are turning to the courts.

The briefs from the conservative religious organizations depict the school environment as an ideological battleground. The Christian Legal Society asserts that its law school chapters “have endured a relentless assault by law schools intolerant of their unpopular perspective on the morality of homosexual conduct or the relevance of religious belief.”

The American Center for Law and Justice brief, filed by its chief counsel, Jay Alan Sekulow, warns that public schools “face a constant temptation to impose a suffocating blanket of political correctness upon the educational atmosphere.”

What galvanized most of the groups on Mr. Frederick’s side was the breadth of the arguments made on the other side. The solicitor general’s brief asserts that under the Supreme Court’s precedents, student speech “may be banned if it is inconsistent with a school’s basic educational mission.”

The Juneau School Board’s mission includes opposing illegal drug use, the administration’s brief continues, citing as evidence a 1994 federal law, the Safe and Drug-Free Schools and Communities Act, which requires that schools, as a condition of receiving federal money, must “convey a clear and consistent message” that using illegal drugs is “wrong and harmful.”

Mr. Starr’s main brief asserts that the court’s trilogy of cases “stands for the proposition that students have limited free speech rights balanced against the school district’s right to carry out its educational mission and to maintain discipline.” The brief argues that even if Ms. Morse applied that precept incorrectly to the facts of this case, she is entitled to immunity from suit because she could have reasonably believed that the law was on her side.

The religious groups were particularly alarmed by what they saw as the implication that school boards could define their “educational mission” as they wished and could suppress countervailing speech accordingly.

“Holy moly, look at this! To get drugs we can eliminate free speech in schools?” is how Robert A. Destro, a law professor at Catholic University, described his reaction to the briefs for the school board when the Liberty Legal Institute asked him to consider participating on the Mr. Frederick’s behalf. He quickly signed on.

Having worked closely with Republican administrations for years, Mr. Destro said he was hard pressed to understand the administration’s position. “My guess is they just hadn’t thought it through,” he said in an interview. “To the people who put them in office, they are making an incoherent statement.”

The solicitor general’s office does not comment publicly on its cases. But Mr. Starr, by contrast, was happy to talk about the case and the alignment against him of many of his old allies. “It’s reassuring to have lots of friends of liberty running around,” he said in a cheerful tone, adding: “I welcome this outpouring because it will help the court see that it shouldn’t go too far either way.”

363biliruben
      ID: 4911361723
      Sun, Apr 08, 2007, 13:58
This actually isn't Marijuana in the news.

When is the existence of a grow light probable cause for a warrant?

Eight officers with guns drawn surprised three roommates in the apartment last weekend and discovered they were growing tomatoes.

What the F is wrong with this country. Even if it WERE marijuana they were growing. 8 cops with guns drawn for a few college students with a tomato plant? Priorities, people.
364Seattle Zen
      ID: 46315247
      Fri, Apr 13, 2007, 10:33
Horrible news: The Feds have come to Washington.

Here is an e-mail I've received from the owner and lead doctor of the largest medical marijuana operation in Washington and Oregon.
On Tuesday, April 10, 2007, THCF Medical Clinics and I, Paul Stanford, received a federal grand jury subpoena from the Drug Enforcement Administration and Assistant US Attorney James P. Hagarty. A federal grand jury is or will be empaneled for an investigation directed by Assistant US Attorney Hagarty. The subpoena says that the grand jury will meet at the United State Courthouse, William O. Douglas Building in Yakima, WA at 9:00 am on May 15, 2007. I am "COMMANDED" to appear and "COMMANDED to bring with you the following document(s) or object(s): * ..."

This subpoena says, "Provide the below described documentation pertaining to the following named parties: ," This subpoena then names 17 people from Oregon and Washington state, along with each person's date of birth. After the list of names, the subpoena continues: "Any and all documents including, but not limited to : * Documentation of Medical Authorization to Possess Marijuana for Medical Purposes in the State of Washington; * Medical Statements and or Reports; * Correspondence; * Reports of any violation and or termination of the Authorization; * Written Applications."

The subpoena says, "You are required not to disclose the existence of this request. Any such disclosure could impede the investigation being conducted and thereby interfere with the enforcement of the law."

I believe this requirement violates my right to free speech and is contrary to my life's work and The Hemp & Cannabis Foundation's goals to end adult marijuana prohibition, restore industrial hemp and help medical marijuana patients.

We can not disclose any patient's identity. Our obligation to protect our patients' privacy is a sacred duty.

We shall fight against this subpoena and for patients using medical marijuana until we prevail. THCF's attorney, Ann Witte of Portland, is preparing a motion to quash (or dismiss) this subpoena. Due to our duty to maintain patient privacy and conflicting federal laws protecting medical patients' privacy and empowering grand juries, our lawyer believes this issue will ultimately be decided by the US Supreme Court. When we file the motion to quash this subpoena, we will hold a press conference in Yakima announcing our opposition to the federal government's continued war on sick and dying patients who benefit from medical marijuana.

THCF has now helped over 18,000 patients in five states obtain a medical marijuana permit under their state's medical marijuana law. This is the first time we have ever received a federal subpoena. THCF Medical Clinics currently sees patients in Portland, Bend and Medford, OR, Seattle and Spokane, WA, Honolulu and Hilo, HI and Denver, CO. We will open medical offices this year in San Francisco and Los Angeles, CA and Las Vegas and Reno, NV.

The Hemp & Cannabis Foundation is a 501C3 nonprofit organization with several projects. In addition to THCF Medical Clinics, THCF has produced 400 episodes of our live weekly TV show, Cannabis Common Sense, and prints a newspaper called Hemp News. Cannabis Common Sense is on cable TV in Portland and Salem, OR, in Seattle and Spokane, WA, in Denver, CO, and is also available on the Internet on YouTube. THCF maintains medical gardens that give free medicine to indigent patients. THCF produces cannabis-related events and sponsors other hempfests. THCF contributes to other organizations' efforts to help patients who benefit from medical marijuana, contributes to other groups working to end adult marijuana prohibition and contributes $500 each month to UNICEF for AIDS orphans in Africa.

THCF has an affiliated 501C4 political committee, Campaign for the Restoration & Regulation of Hemp, or CRRH. CRRH's goal is also to end adult marijuana prohibition, restore industrial hemp and help medical marijuana patients.

We shall overcome!

Please support our efforts. Thank you.

Yours truly,
D. Paul Stanford
www.hemp.org
1-800-723-0188

It has begun.
365biliruben
      ID: 4911361723
      Fri, Apr 13, 2007, 10:42
Didn't we already lose? How is this different from Raich(sp?)?
366Seattle Zen
      ID: 46315247
      Fri, Apr 13, 2007, 10:49
This is akin to Ed Rosenthal, not Raich, because Stanford is a provider, not a patient himself. On the Federal level, there is no medical marijuana defense. It looks bad.
367Perm Dude
      ID: 35342167
      Mon, Apr 16, 2007, 11:54
Speaking of Ed Rosenthal, look what the new AGs are up to...
368Seattle Zen
      ID: 46315247
      Thu, Apr 19, 2007, 02:35
absurd and illogical

Marijuana Compound May Fight Lung Cancer

In cells and in mice, THC shrank tumors, scientists say.
While smoking marijuana is never good for the lungs, the active ingredient in pot may help fight lung cancer, new research shows.

Harvard University researchers have found that, in both laboratory and mouse studies, delta-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) cuts tumor growth in half in common lung cancer while impeding the cancer's ability to spread.

The compound "seems to have a suppressive effect on certain lines of cancer cells," explained Dr. Len Horovitz, a pulmonary specialist at Lenox Hill Hospital in New York City.
369Seattle Zen
      ID: 49112418
      Mon, Jun 25, 2007, 19:33
Re: Post 362

Supreme Court hands down pathetic 5-4 ruling.

School principals may punish students for holding up signs that favor the use of illegal drugs (even if you do it on your own property on your own time), the Supreme Court said today in narrow decision limiting the free-speech rights of students.

Simply pathetic. The Conservative Cabal has overreached again, saying schools can do all sorts of stupid things in the name of keeping students' statements "on message".
Thomas said he would have gone further in the other direction and said high school students did not have free-speech rights. In 1969, amid the Vietnam War, the high court sided with students who had worn black armbands as a protest. The court said then that students "do not shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate." That ruling came in Tinker vs. Des Moines Independent School District. Chief Justice Roberts cited that phrase with approval today, but Thomas, speaking only for himself, said he would overrule the Tinker decision.

Ah, Clarence, still as unqualified as ever.
370Myboyjack
      ID: 8216923
      Mon, Jun 25, 2007, 20:43
(even if you do it on your own property on your own time)


What a strange editorial comment by you. Did you read the facts? This was during a school function on the side walk in front of the school; he was told to put the sign down, wouldn't, and got suspended.

BTW, the Plaintiff states that he was not making any statement about drug use; that he just wanted to provoke the principal that he had it out for.

The fact that this was during a school function ans seemed to advocate illegal activity that was contrary to a reasonable educational objective makes this a hard case even for me.
371Myboyjack
      ID: 8216923
      Mon, Jun 25, 2007, 20:51
I meant to add, your link is a to a pathetic article. Thomas didn't say that high school students didn't have free speech rights; he said they didn't have the right to free speech at school.
372Seattle Zen
      ID: 46315247
      Mon, Jun 25, 2007, 22:11
This was during a school function on the side walk in front of the school; he was told to put the sign down, wouldn't, and got suspended.

This was not during a school function and it was not on school grounds. I have been following this case for years and I was under the notion that he unfurled his banner on his own property along the parade route. I am going through old stories and I can't find where I came up with that notion, so I retract the "own property" portion, but this ruling would not be any different if it were his property. He was off school grounds, school was let out to allow students to watch, but they were not required to be there, it was not a field trip. The court really stretched, in my mind, when it held that he was "at school" because he was at a "school approved social event where the student conduct rules applied". That's crap.
373Myboyjack
      ID: 8216923
      Mon, Jun 25, 2007, 22:39
The decision

It begins......

At a school-sanctioned and school-supervised event, petitioner Morse, the high school principal, saw students unfurl a banner stating
“BONG HiTS 4 JESUS,” which she regarded as promoting illegal drug use. Consistent with established school policy prohibiting such
messages at school events, Morse directed the students to take down the banner. When one of the students who had brought the banner to
the event—...


As I understand it, the school allowed students to walk out of class to the front of the school to watch the Olympic Torch carrier pass by. Seems like a pretty fair characterization of the facts by Roberts; this was school sanctioned and supervised and during school hours.

I don't know where you're getting that this limited decision would not be different if it were on the PLaintiff's property. Are you invisioning a field trip to his mom's house during school hours and under the supervision of school personnel.

The school supervision and sanctioning were critical elements in even Thomas' concurrence.
374Seattle Zen
      ID: 46315247
      Tue, Jun 26, 2007, 01:14
Letting students leave the campus to watch a parade may be school sanctioned, but to say that the students remained under school supervision is a real stretch. The Cabal wanted to write some precedent, facts be damned.
375Perm Dude
      ID: 125122512
      Tue, Jun 26, 2007, 02:42
Frederick stood among other students across the street from the school and directed his banner toward the school, making it plainly visible to most students. Under these circumstances, Frederick cannot claim he was not at school.

Let's see--he wasn't on school property, but directed the message toward the school itself. It appears that this made him "at school" according to the majority. Maybe he was as a result of physically moving from the school property to just outside the property under the guise of a school-sanctioned off-campus event, but the wording seems unusually broad in the majority opinion. And the beginning of the opinion (which MBJ quotes) seems more directed at where the petitioner was when he saw the speech in question rather than Frederick.

Maybe that was the larger point being made: That is doesn't matter where the speech originates, but whether it is received by school kids under the school's protection.
376Building 7
      Sustainer
      ID: 171572711
      Tue, Jun 26, 2007, 10:02
Doesn't the Supreme Court accept only one out of one hundred cases or so? And they waste their valuable time on this nonsense. The sign does not even make sense. Also, he could have been referring to tobacco bong hits, which are not drug related. From Wikipedia:

A bong, also commonly known as a water pipe, is a smoking device, generally used to smoke marijuana and tobacco, but also other substances.

I haven't read the case, but I would have tried that line of defense.
377Perm Dude
      ID: 41572614
      Tue, Jun 26, 2007, 23:47
That would have been a line of reasoning used very early on. MBJ & Seattle Zen can probably clarify, but my understanding is that the trial court determines facts, and above that the courts determine the law.

pd
378Toral
      ID: 575542418
      Wed, Jul 04, 2007, 04:22
butt
379Boxman
      ID: 571114225
      Wed, Jul 04, 2007, 06:31
butt

The issue of pot legalization gets too much attention in this forum already. I've done some perusing through older threads and it looks like Baldwin got taken to task for his obsession with the Schiavo case. Where is the similar outcry for Zen? Then again, the liberals do run this place.

I personally don't give a damn what the people in Washington state do. Let states rights win the day and have at it, but I don't want to hear it from the big government liberals that my state can't do x or y.
380Seattle Zen
      ID: 358591721
      Fri, Nov 07, 2008, 11:57
"Bong Hits 4 Jesus" suit settled for $45,000.

The district will pay Frederick $45,000. In exchange Frederick will drop remaining claims not heard by the U.S. Supreme Court. The settlement also calls for the district to spend as much as $5,000 to hire a neutral constitutional law expert to chair a forum on student speech at JDHS. This is to be done before this school year ends next spring.

Congratulations to the young man and his insistent fight for his right to speech. Seven years is a long time to stick to your guns. I love the forum on student speech idea.
381DWetzel at work
      ID: 278201415
      Fri, Nov 07, 2008, 12:34
"I've done some perusing through older threads and it looks like Baldwin got taken to task for his obsession with the Schiavo case. Where is the similar outcry for Zen?"

I think the difference is that it's mostly confined to one thread, rather than spewed in twenty different places.

If SZ started a new thread every two days (or four in ten minutes) about this while calling opponents of drug legalization tyrannical Hitler-esque thugs who eat babies and drink their blood, trust me, I'll be similarly annoyed about that aspect of it.
382DWetzel at work
      ID: 278201415
      Fri, Nov 07, 2008, 12:36
(And I'd add that you will basically NEVER see the level of disgust at what Boldwin excretes onto this board about it, because it's about the issue, not about dehumanizing and demonizing a specific person or group of people.)
385chode
      ID: 3610616
      Thu, Jun 28, 2012, 10:19
No bath salts, just pot.
386Perm Dude
      ID: 431013412
      Sat, Jan 03, 2015, 16:59
Not sure how I missed this: NYC shifts policy on small marijuana possession.

Of course, the police union are being dicks about the thing (whining about the mayor “surrender and change the policies of the NYPD"), but there you go.

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