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Subject: Bush Seeks Funds for Abstinence Education Posted by: Tree - [510231619] Thu, Nov 25, 2004, 22:13 WASHINGTON - President Bush's re-election insures that more federal money will flow to abstinence education that precludes discussion of birth control, even as the administration awaits evidence that the approach gets kids to refrain from sex. greeeeeeeeat......let's not teach kids about safe sex AND attempt to overturn Roe v Wade... | |||||||
| 73 | Boldwin ID: 1411237 Fri, Feb 25, 2005, 14:00 | Not one agency tried to report what they thot was a real situation. Not one in eight hundred. You want me to believe they were all feigning disinterest but would have obeyed the law and reported them? I'll tell you who is hanging by a thread, PD. | ||||||
| 74 | Boldwin ID: 1411237 Fri, Feb 25, 2005, 14:05 | He said she said, complete lack of evidence cases are the bane of every judicial system. We take immorality so seriously that I can be disfellowshipped for merely being seen in the same private room with a woman. Usually you are trying to deride my religion for being too draconian for actually obeying the Bible regarding disfellowshipping, but today you want us to disfellowship based on one witness. I really have no use for your double-standards. | ||||||
| 75 | Perm Dude Dude ID: 030792616 Fri, Feb 25, 2005, 14:12 |
B, I'm simply saying that your linked organization hasn't demonstrated anything. It's not up to someone to prove that they would report a crime. It's up to your group to show that they have not. All they are saying right now is that a ficticious phone call reveals that PP might not. A crime occurs when a crime occurs. Not at the point when you think one would happen in a fake case. A phone call, BTW, is not a real situation. You seem to be taking PP to task for not reporting what they haven't actually witnessed. The moment someone comes in the door and reports a reportable action is when PP is obligated to report it. In fact, they can't report it before that point. | ||||||
| 76 | Boldwin ID: 1411237 Fri, Feb 25, 2005, 14:14 | Special pleading. It is obvious what they do. | ||||||
| 77 | Perm Dude Dude ID: 030792616 Fri, Feb 25, 2005, 14:20 | And it's obvious what your source does. | ||||||
| 78 | Boldwin ID: 1411237 Fri, Feb 25, 2005, 14:38 |
The only time in the Bible when there were a people [the Amorites] so eager to kill babies as to be comparable to today, God had those people destroyed and their land given to his people. But as I have often stated that is what Armageddon is for. | ||||||
| 79 | sarge33rd ID: 211281813 Fri, Feb 25, 2005, 14:58 | I thought Armageddon was a pretty good movie. Specially those parts with Liv Tyler in them. :) | ||||||
| 80 | Boldwin ID: 1411237 Fri, Feb 25, 2005, 15:04 | Here's hoping she survives. | ||||||
| 81 | sarge33rd ID: 19161911 Fri, Feb 25, 2005, 17:05 | Baldwin, within this discussion, you are conveniently ignoring one singular fact. The KS G, lacks probable cause, to see ANY of these records. Yes, I want child molesters prosecuted. I do NOT however, want the US Constitution subverted by a political agenda. | ||||||
| 82 | Boldwin ID: 1411237 Fri, Feb 25, 2005, 17:17 |
Rereading that link again... I see a lot of perfectly valid legal issues that are well within his purview to engage. | ||||||
| 83 | Perm Dude Dude ID: 030792616 Fri, Feb 25, 2005, 17:27 |
-we've yet to see if SCOK agrees with the good judge, though your support of activist judges is interesting. -at what point does the AG's duty stop? Seriously, you've been very vocal about the brownshirt tactics of children's services divisions who have the same duty. The AG's duty has limits, generally along privacy and other constitutionally-protected lines; -the investigation did not target those people who actually obtained abortions that late (which Roe v Wade did not itself outlaw, but left to the individual states to decide). It targetted those who sought the abortions. Don't suppose you are a big fan of "hate speech" legislation, are you? So get off the "talking about it is just as illegal" kick. -There's no indication that the AG was or is actually correct that underage sexual activity needs to be reported, though there is little doubt that the AG believes all such activity to be illegal. He has yet to be proven right. | ||||||
| 84 | soxzeitgeist ID: 20155513 Fri, Feb 25, 2005, 18:07 |
*laughing* Sorry I haven't been able to join you for the last few hours, and I'm working no, so just a few quick thoughts - "he said, she said" is an awful cavalier attitude vi-a-vis child molestation charges, yet it's your stance when you disregard reports from your church, but not from an AG crusading against PP? Could it be you have double standards? | ||||||
| 85 | Boldwin ID: 1411237 Fri, Feb 25, 2005, 18:18 | He said she said, is not cavalier. When you have no evidence and just one accuser that is what that situation is called. | ||||||
| 86 | Boldwin ID: 1411237 Fri, Feb 25, 2005, 18:25 |
PD The sorts of things I have complained about are examples where the DCFS have come in on an anonymous tip, taken the kids and blackmailed the parents into admitting guilt when they are not guilty or they are told they will never see their kids again. That is worlds apart from Planned Parenthood which I'll wager has tens of thousands of cases where their own documents would reveal they failed to obey the reporting laws. These are not dubious anonymous allegations, the girl is pregnant. | ||||||
| 87 | sarge33rd ID: 35132922 Fri, Feb 25, 2005, 20:18 |
When you have no evidence... EXACTLY!!!!!!!! When the state AG has no evidence of a crime having been committed, no comlainant, no witness, no allegation....his office has NOTHING to investigate. And less than no-right, to pursue private medical records. | ||||||
| 88 | Boldwin ID: 1411237 Fri, Feb 25, 2005, 20:23 | The judge found he had just cause. Get over it. | ||||||
| 89 | sarge33rd ID: 35132922 Fri, Feb 25, 2005, 20:27 | oh, you mean the AG's buddy, the district judge? Unfortunately for the AG, that ruling I'd wager is highly likely to be overturned in appeal. Unless there is FAR more than thge article leads one to believe, there is absolutley no evidence of a crime having been committed. No allegation of statutory rape ahs been made, no allegation of sexual molestation has been made, in fact, only the AG seems to think that someone might have broken the law and thus he wants to see EVERYONES medicala records. WRONG! Invasion of privacy, abuse of power....care to wager which AG/District Judge lose their jobs in the not too distant future? Even in a Rep bastion like KS, the Bill of Rights must have meaning. | ||||||
| 90 | Boldwin ID: 1411237 Fri, Feb 25, 2005, 20:31 | What desperation to preserve abortion and the nazi scum over at PP. You haven't been reading if you actually believe PP hasn't been guilty of coverup of statutory rape in a massive nationwide RICO violation kind of way. | ||||||
| 91 | Perm Dude Dude ID: 030792616 Fri, Feb 25, 2005, 21:28 |
B, you don't think DFS finds tens of thousands of cases using their "bust in first" technique" Your proper criticism of their technique is that they cast their net far too wide for little to no reason, and harm the innocent in so doing. The same thing is happening here. In the hopes of catching some wrongdoers, the AG fishing. | ||||||
| 92 | Boldwin ID: 1411237 Fri, Feb 25, 2005, 21:39 |
PD I guess you could never admit it to me, but in your heart of hearts you have got to know that they don't ever ever report a child abuse case no matter how clearcut and for that matter your chances of being encouraged to adopt out instead of abort are zero. PP is a huge abortion provider. I am amazed you would expend yourself on behalf of a group like this with so much blood on their hands. These people changed their name to distance themselves from the fact they actually were seminally involved in Hitler's final solution. I wasn't using hyperbole when I said I consider them nazi scum. Come home to your religious roots and stop sharing in their bloodguilt. | ||||||
| 93 | Madman ID: 43410119 Mon, Feb 28, 2005, 13:20 | BTW, didn't Hillary Clinton recently come out of the closet and state that she was in favor of abstinence programs in high school? | ||||||
| 94 | Mattinglyinthehall ID: 2824911 Mon, Feb 28, 2005, 13:27 | I haven't been following this thread lately but I don't believe HRC has endorsed abstinence ed exclusively, as opposed for example to a sex ed cirriculum that focuses on abstinence while also covering safe sex ed. | ||||||
| 95 | Motley Crue Leader ID: 439372011 Mon, Feb 28, 2005, 13:45 |
Hey, if I had a kid that looked like that I'd preach abstinence, too. Sorry, MadDOG. I hope I didn't steal your joke. | ||||||
| 96 | Mattinglyinthehall ID: 2824911 Mon, Feb 28, 2005, 13:49 |
Baldwin is right in that jokes are funnier when based in reality. Chelsea might not be Barbara Bush, but I think she's matured very nicely:
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| 97 | Motley Crue Leader ID: 439372011 Mon, Feb 28, 2005, 15:00 | MITH, that's fine. Opinions are like bellybuttons. | ||||||
| 98 | Toral ID: 22731114 Mon, Feb 28, 2005, 16:50 |
Wayback to sarge 36 and such, and the original topic: I read an interview in Canada's NP of an author last week who had done a lot of research and confirmed this board's intutive insights: the more self-esteem adolescent and up boys have, the more sex they are likely to have. The more self-esteem girls have, the less sex they are likely to have. Sorry I can't link to the article (damned premium content) but the author being interviewed has written a book in favour of gender-segregation in education. Notoriously, girls now lag in maths and sciences; according to the author, separately educated girls perform equally well as (all) boys. Likewise, men fare worse in creative activities such as arts; he says separately educated boys do not show this distinction. The author believes that gender separation in education should start early, but he didn't indicate how long it should last. He noted that as early as kindergarten, boys come to hate the drawing exercises etc., and say they are going "girl stuff". In a boys' only kindergarten, they love to draw, will do it all day. etc. Girls typically draw static objects, while boys like to draw things smashing into each other. Toral | ||||||
| 99 | Perm Dude Dude ID: 030792616 Mon, Feb 28, 2005, 17:31 | Seems to me this might flow from poor teaching techniques as much as anything. | ||||||
| 100 | biliruben ID: 500432513 Mon, Feb 28, 2005, 17:46 |
There are only two people that I've known quite well who were educated in a same-sex school. The girl was very promiscuius at an early age and died young. The guy was the most socially-deviant handsome 6'2" guy I've ever met. One truly twisted dude. Of course, this is just anectdote, which I often rail against, and probably had as much or more to do with the families who would choose to send their child to a same-sex school (who were far from ideal) as anything else. | ||||||
| 101 | katietx ID: 21382721 Mon, Feb 28, 2005, 18:41 |
I went to a same-sex HS (Catholic school) and I can definitely say that I've never seen a bigger bunch of back-stabbing, elitist snobs in my life. However, I did learn a lot, even if I got my knuckles rapped a time or two. Read things I probably wouldn't have in the public school and left with a greater appreciation for all types of literature. | ||||||
| 103 | Boldwin ID: 241292815 Tue, Mar 01, 2005, 04:45 | I would have no stong opinion on this issue were it not for the special case of black men in our society. Currently they are competing to see who can act the most contemptuous of education. Put them in an all male school and that false self-destructive machismo seems to drop away. This is what black educators have noticed. It's not my idea. I hate to see them being held back just so white PC snobs can feel better about themselves. | ||||||
| 104 | Seattle Zen ID: 178161719 Fri, Mar 04, 2005, 21:42 |
The real Washington tells DC to "get rooted". The (Washington) House passed a bill that would prevent high schools from offering abstinence-only sex education. Instead, schools' sex ed classes would have to include information on both abstinence and contraception. My state is better than yours, damn right it's better than yours ... | ||||||
| 105 | Boldwin ID: 241292815 Fri, Mar 04, 2005, 21:45 | They make great milkshakes up there I hear. | ||||||
| 106 | Tree ID: 9362211 Tue, Jul 05, 2005, 11:04 |
Pediatricians Decry Abstinence-Only Ed now i'm sure that there is something heinous about this group, how they're involved with the Scientologists, NAMBLA, and P-FLAG. and Skull and Bones. can't forget them. nonetheless, they preach common sense in this case. | ||||||
| 107 | Perm Dude Dude ID: 030792616 Fri, Feb 24, 2006, 11:41 |
US agrees to stop funding abstinence programs Throwing the baby out with the bathwater, IMO. | ||||||
| 108 | Seattle Zen ID: 3415339 Sat, Feb 25, 2006, 01:25 |
Perm There was no baby in that basin. What was thrown out is what is known as a load of crap. Good on ya, ACLU! | ||||||
| 109 | Boldwin ID: 49626249 Sat, Feb 25, 2006, 04:27 | Abortionists aren't rich enuff yet, for your taste SZ? | ||||||
| 110 | Tree ID: 57137256 Sat, Feb 25, 2006, 07:51 |
i wonder who's richer Baldwin? Abortion clinics, or churchs... | ||||||
| 111 | soxzeitgeist ID: 911541714 Sat, Feb 25, 2006, 08:39 | I think it's great that all these teens want to get Prince Albert piercings. | ||||||
| 112 | soxzeitgeist ID: 911541714 Sat, Feb 25, 2006, 08:43 | And on a more serious note, the US hasn't "agreed to stop funding abstinence programs". Just this one in particular based on it's approach where Christianity, not just waiting to have sex, is the message. | ||||||
| 113 | Seattle Zen ID: 46315247 Sat, Apr 14, 2007, 01:33 |
Students who took part in sexual abstinence programs were just as likely to have sex as those who did not, according to a study ordered by Congress. Also, those who attended one of the four abstinence classes that were reviewed reported having similar numbers of sexual partners as those who did not attend the classes. And they first had sex at about the same age as other students - 14.9 years, according to Mathematica Policy Research Inc. | ||||||
| 114 | Punk42AE Donor ID: 036635522 Sat, Apr 14, 2007, 02:10 | And does anyone actually believe it's going to become a taboo again to do it before college? No matter what is done. | ||||||
| 115 | sarge33rd ID: 76442923 Sat, Apr 14, 2007, 08:02 |
anyone let of center in their overall thinking? No. Right of center? Would appear to be a yes answer. Which begs the next question...Which group is living in the "real" world, and which is trying to live in their version of a fairy tale? | ||||||
| 116 | Mattinglyinthehall Leader ID: 01629107 Mon, Apr 16, 2007, 16:07 | Largest study to date finds abstenance training alone appears to be a waste of money. | ||||||
| 117 | Mattinglyinthehall Leader ID: 01629107 Mon, Apr 16, 2007, 16:09 | And no sooner than the moment after I post do I see that Seattle Zen beat me by two days. Oops. | ||||||
| 118 | katietx ID: 243562819 Fri, May 04, 2007, 18:14 |
I may have voted for him (mea culpa), but this is bad, bad, bad "that he wants to continue denying millions of women access to essential medical services, including family planning and safe, legal abortion, even if it means jeopardizing their health." | ||||||
| 119 | biliruben ID: 52014814 Fri, May 04, 2007, 20:29 |
Washington gets it: Gregoire also signed into law a bill that prohibits abstinence-only lessons at public schools offering sex education. | ||||||
| 120 | sarge33rd ID: 76442923 Sun, May 06, 2007, 23:23 |
Opponents argued the measure doesn't put enough emphasis on abstinence, doesn't require proper notification to parents and takes control away from schools. Notification to parents??? Here's your notification: Hey Parents...Your child attends a public school? We're gonna teach them about condoms, since it appears too many of you wont. There...that parts null and void. Not enough emphasis on abstinence? Are they trying to say that we teach harder on something demonstrated to not work? Well then, lets bring back the Yugo! Control?? Like the state mandated minimum subject matter/curriculum? Control...is a mirage. kudos to your states Gov bili. | ||||||
| 121 | Seattle Zen ID: 529121611 Mon, Dec 24, 2007, 12:59 |
You stupid little kids, no sex for anyone until they are married. And no money for anyone who deviates from this tired, ineffective mantra! The Bush administration is cutting off funding for abstinence-only sex education in Washington because this state now requires schools to provide additional, medically accurate information about preventing unintended pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases. All I can really think about is the fact that there are less than 400 days left! Can't come soon enough! | ||||||
| 122 | steve houpt ID: 451161019 Thu, Dec 27, 2007, 00:23 |
You know what's funny SZ, it's all because of a law signed by Bill Clinton in 1996 - as part of Welfare Reform. And note, it's not even up for review as part of the appropriation process - it's an 'entitlement' - another fine mess from a House-Senate conference committee. Big government at work again - spending our money where they have no business spending it - oh, and states have been opting out for years. States Opting Out If they all drop out, look at the money we save. Goes back into the pot. It's bribery, just like tax dollars for roads, lose [your gasoline tax dollars] if your state did not change state drinking laws to 21. Even after Louisiana made it against the law to purchase alcohol under the age of 21, the feds threatened to take the money away unless they also made it against the law to sell it to someone under the age of 21 [was still only against the law to sell to someone under 18]. They finally did. ======= [1996] Federal Law Mandates Abstinence Only Sex-Ed but....... The federal appropriation -- which balloons to $437.5 million when combined with matching state funds -- is the result of a little-publicized and never-debated provision of Public Law 104-193, the welfare reform law signed into law by President Clinton in August 1996. The bill represents a big victory for its supporters -- members of the religious right -- who have been battling sex education in public schools for some 30 years. The legislation, which was never the subject of public hearings or congressional debate, "took us completely by surprise," said Daniel Daley, director of public policy for the Sexuality Information and Education Council of the United States (SIECUS), a non-profit national organization that promotes comprehensive sexuality education. He said the provision was added to the legislation late in the process, when changes generally are limited to technical revisions and corrections. "An environment was created to make sure no one knew this was happening unless you were inside the loop -- unless you were part of the Heritage Foundation or the Christian Coalition." The bill, which does not require that funded programs be evaluated, was made even more powerful when it was granted entitlement status during a House-Senate conference. That means the legislation is not subject to Congress' annual appropriations process and instead automatically qualifies for funding in each year of the funding period. | ||||||
| 123 | Perm Dude ID: 481151269 Thu, Dec 27, 2007, 08:55 |
States agreeing to teach abstinence can receive annual allocations of $78,526 to $4.9 million over the next five years. That's not even a drop in the bucket in any state school funding schemes. And while the author might have a point (in fact, several points), to double this through "state matching funds" is a silly attempt at making this amount seem big. Oklahoma and Louisiana are two states that have been forced to revise their plans because of low grades from NCAE. Since when does a private organization have the ability to make a state school system change anything? Jeez, I can't even get my school to give me their budget. Sounds like an example of "cowering bureaucratitis" more than anything else. The effectiveness of the programs can, and should be, the main point here, IMO. Just as the failure of bilingual education was the main point behind many states doing away with bilingual education funding. It just doesn't work. | ||||||
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