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Subject: Russia sliding back
Posted by: Perm Dude
- Dude [030792616] Sat, Jan 07, 2006, 10:49
This is more of a placeholder post which I'll fill out later, on the staggering yet under-the-radar changes in Russia, mostly initiated by Putin, revoking civil liberties, restricting media access, and a general political clampdown.
I believe the US, for the most part, is looking the other way, just as it does in Pakistan and Iran, so as not to go against its partners in the war on terror. The analogies to the war on communism are stark and the lessons we haven't learned are going to really bite us in the ass again.
As Clarence Darrow said: "History repeats itself. That's one of the things wrong with history."
More later. Or feel free to chime in. |
| 1 | nerveclinic
ID: 19730619
Sun, Jan 08, 2006, 05:17
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on the staggering yet under-the-radar changes in Russia, mostly initiated by Putin, revoking civil liberties, restricting media access, and a general political clampdown.
I'm not sure why you say it's "under the radar", it's been all over the news lately for months, maybe the last year or two. I've read many, many main stream press articles about it.
I believe the US, for the most part, is looking the other way,
The US has little choice but to for the most part ignore it since we've recently invaded a sovereign nation, leveled the city of Falugia (?) killing thousands.
Have admitted to torturing prisoners under our control, held prisoners without charges for years, were caught with numerous photos of salacious and sadistic acts against prisoners in jails in Iraq, have had two highly questionable Presidential elections, one in which the winning candidate almost certainly actually lost because of voting irregularities in a state where his brother was governor.
I mean look at the list above and tell me how asinine we would look if we started lecturing Putin. What would we say? You should follow our example?
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| 2 | Perm Dude
Dude
ID: 030792616
Sun, Jan 08, 2006, 10:09
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nerve, I suspect your radar is aimed a lot lower and a lot wider than most.
I mean, ten or fifteen years ago, Russian couldn't sneeze without it being all over the place.
As for lecturing, you might be right, but it's all part and parcel of the same thing. We lectured, then invaded, Afghanistan and Iraq and trumpeted that we were in the right to do so. Essentially, lecturing the world. Whether we were wrong or not on the point doesn't take away from our lecturing nature.
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| 3 | soxzeitgeist
ID: 199531715
Sun, Jan 08, 2006, 13:58
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I believe the US, for the most part, is looking the other way,
We have little choice. As we will have little choice in Iraq as well. We've all heard the adage, and it's true; Elections are not democracy - Russia is just one of many rife-with-corruption, oil-rich, semi-democracys in the world. And until those countries can find non-oil based economies to sustain them, they are likely to stay exactly that way.
In most cases, oil revenue based economies and democracy are mutually exclusive.
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| 4 | Perm Dude
Dude
ID: 030792616
Sun, Jan 08, 2006, 14:09
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Russia is just one of many...
Russia has nukes. That sets them a world apart, sox.
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| 5 | Pancho Villa
ID: 519522811
Sun, Jan 08, 2006, 15:00
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It was obvious in 2003 with the arrest of Khodorkovsky and the basic nationalization of Yukos that Putin was not going to allow a western-friendly oil monopoly to operate in conjunction with a US takeover of the Iraqi oil industry.
Whether or not Khordokovsky was the Russian equivalent to Ken Lay is debatable(Khordokovsky did , after all, turn over his shares of Yukos to globalist banker Jacob Rothschild) , but the geopolitical repercussions of Kazakhstan's comfy relationship with Chevron and BP and the Baku/Tblisi/Ceyhan bypassing Russian soil for easier export of Central Asian oil unfettered by Russian control, it isn't hard to see why Putin decided the entire set-up was opposed to Russian interests.
But let's be fair. While Khordokovsky's trial may not have been, it was big improvement over the communist show trials of the Soviet Union, allowing for press coverage and even an appeals process.
I'm not sure with the current administration's stance on secrecy, allowing the president to bend any law in the name of keeping us safe from terrorism while keeping silent on Chechnyan terrorism, that we can take the high ground at this point, especially since Bush gave the Chinese only a token scolding for their religious persecutions and oppression of civil rights in his recent trip to the Far East.
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| 6 | soxzeitgeist
ID: 199531715
Sun, Jan 08, 2006, 19:06
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Yes, obviously, perm. My bad.
But aside from the possible threat posed by a regressive Russia, the point I was trying to make was less about the former Soviet Union's nuclear power than it is about oil based economies generally being 'not so much' compatable with representative government.
Although that argument can be made for any state that has immense mineral or natural resource riches.
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| 7 | Perm Dude
ID: 434213
Mon, Apr 02, 2007, 23:30
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Cathy Young on the reach of Putin into cyberspace.
This is like watching a Dictators for Dummies book unfolding in front of our eyes.
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| 8 | Punk42AE
Donor
ID: 036635522
Tue, Apr 03, 2007, 09:07
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Overall it's only been a matter of time since Putin came into office. I guess we should just expect a "Sum of all Fears" thing to go on now.
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| 9 | Perm Dude
ID: 35738179
Fri, Aug 17, 2007, 15:52
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Russia relaunches long-range strategic bombers
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| 10 | Perm Dude
ID: 49836128
Wed, Sep 12, 2007, 12:05
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Putin dissolves Russian government.
The biggest story in quite some time. Or, if you listen to the US media, the biggest non-story.
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| 11 | walk
ID: 2530286
Sat, Sep 22, 2007, 09:33
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Our Siberian Dilemma
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| 12 | boikin
ID: 532592112
Tue, Jun 29, 2010, 09:24
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Looks like Russia might be up to her old tricks.
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| 14 | Pancho Villa
ID: 59645318
Sun, Feb 10, 2013, 16:16
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Kremlin opposition leader under house arrest
Political opposition may seem a smallissue a year from now when the Russians host the Winter Olympics at Sochi.
Honestly, I haven't paid much attention to these games, so it was only recently that I searched and found Sochi on a map. I was stunned. Sochi is only a few miles from the border of Abkhazia, which, like South Ossetia, is still shown as part of Georgia, but has been completely independent of Georgia since the 2008 Georgia/South Ossetia/Russian war. Abkhazia has been the site of ethnic cleansing by both Abkhazians and Georgians, depending on the year. But that's just for starters. The entire North Caucasus has been, and continues to be, one of the most violent and unstable regions on the planet. Chechnya. Dagestan. Beslan massacre. Jihads. Secession movements. Rogue militias.
Suprisingly, this excellent piece from the Breitbart archives provides a good overview to the potential for tragedy at these games.
I try not to be an alarmist, but with the possible exception of Iran or North Korea, I can't think of a place where security issues would be more challenging than Sochi.
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| 15 | Perm Dude
ID: 41661813
Sat, Aug 10, 2013, 11:02
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Frm Sec Rice: Obama is "absolutely right" to cancel summit with Putin.
My own belief is that it was cut, largely, because the stakes are so low.
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| 16 | nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Mon, Aug 12, 2013, 18:00
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My own belief is that it was cut, largely, because the stakes are so low.
And ironically, because Russia is giving asylum, to an American, who is exposing behavior by our government, that for decades we accused Russia of.
That is ironic.
Almost as ironic as PD linking to an approval by Rice of Obama's position on the cancelation, illustrating just how desperate they all are on this topic.
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| 17 | Perm Dude
ID: 41661813
Mon, Aug 12, 2013, 18:21
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Desperate in what way? And how does that "desperation" manifest itself in what we are seeing?
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| 18 | nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Mon, Aug 26, 2013, 01:30
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"Desperate in what way? And how does that "desperation" manifest itself in what we are seeing?"
Well let's see, basically forcing down the plane of a President of a sovereign country who you are not at war with, because you think Snowden "might" be on the plane.
That is about as desperate as it gets.
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| 19 | Perm Dude
ID: 431013412
Fri, Dec 20, 2013, 18:56
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I agree with Andrew Sullivan: In the wake of Obama's double Olympic snub, Putin has panicked.
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| 20 | nerveclinic
ID: 8832812
Thu, Jan 30, 2014, 20:32
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"In the wake of Obama's double Olympic snub, Putin has panicked."
But not "panicked" in the same way Obama panicked when he (Obama) threatened to invade Syria, and then ran with his tail between his legs when Russia sent 4 war ships to the coast of Syria.
The real headache for Putin right now is the Ukrainian people spitting in his face demanding freedom from "Mother Russia"
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| 21 | Perm Dude
ID: 431013412
Tue, May 06, 2014, 18:13
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| 22 | biliruben
ID: 229341622
Wed, May 07, 2014, 05:05
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I'd like to see a US map. Does he have the votes to annex The South?
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| 23 | Perm Dude
ID: 431013412
Tue, Dec 16, 2014, 12:15
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Saudi Arabia keeping oil prices low to punish Russia?
The drop in prices worldwide is going to really hurt Russia. And while I don't expect Putin to do anything more than grip power even tighter, squelching petrodollars flowing his way is a good thing, IMO.
Meanwhile, Russia's central bank is having trouble keeping their Monopoly money meaningful.
Russia's 2015 budget assumes crude oil will be at $100/barrel or higher. It wouldn't surprise me to see it getting down to $70 soon, as a result of OPEC's continued high production.
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| 24 | biliruben
ID: 105572020
Tue, Dec 16, 2014, 13:11
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Sweet light is at $54 this am. Saudis only account for about 13% of production. They can't stop the bleeding even if they wanted to.
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| 25 | weykool
ID: 21012423
Wed, Dec 17, 2014, 18:01
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Its amazing to see the amount of oil being produced.
I recall two things my junior high teacher said to us.
1. Everyone in Canada and the northern half of the US were going to have to cram into the lower half of the US because of the coming ice age.
2. Dont even worry about learning to drive a car because by the time you become old enough to drive all the oil will be gone.
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| 26 | Bean
ID: 121011511
Wed, Dec 17, 2014, 18:07
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It used to be that if you wanted to start and idle conversation with someone, you'd talk about the weather. Nowadays, it becomes a heated politcal discussion.
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