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Subject: The End of Free Speech
Posted by: Baldwin
- [14358177] Tue, Apr 17, 2007, 10:07
It's only a matter of time before this bill or one just like it get's passed as it has already been passed in country after country, formerly sane free countries like Australia and Canada.
Very simply if this bill passes, any homosexual who doesn't like me reading Bible verses he/she doesn't like, can have me thrown in jail sans evidence.
This type of legislation will get passed sooner or later, I aways knew that, but I just didn't think I'd be dragged to jail so soon.
This well and truly puts the lie to Sarge and Tree's hysterical fears of christian political power when in truth it is the secular humanist religion which has had a stranglehold on power for our entire lives. |
| 1 | Baldwin
ID: 14358177
Tue, Apr 17, 2007, 10:16
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This is why the trend to put in place SCOTUS judges who seek to harmonize USA law with international law [true even for Bush's picks] will have far more longterm damaging effects than people understand. Laws like this would eventually get overturned on constitutional grounds otherwise.
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| 2 | Perm Dude
ID: 58318178
Tue, Apr 17, 2007, 10:19
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These kinds of scare tactics should be beneath you, B. But apparently they are not.
Now, I'm not a friend of "hate crimes" legislation for a number of reasons. And the fact that this particular bill was named after Mathew Shepard is particularly ironic, since his meth addict and alcoholic attackers have admitted robbing him because they thought he was a mark not because he was gay.
You want to be scared? Be scared that this President believes that he can throw you in jail, or hand you off to foreign countries to be tortured, because he believes you are an enemy combatant in the self-declared "war on terror."
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| 3 | Baldwin
ID: 14358177
Tue, Apr 17, 2007, 11:32
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This is the wave of the near future and I have no illusion that I or anyone else could stop it from coming to pass.
When you get a chance to learn about God's Kingdom, take it ... while you still can.
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| 4 | Tree
ID: 29082512
Tue, Apr 17, 2007, 11:36
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maybe i missed it, but was there a link to the actual proposed law anywhere in that article?
i'd love to read it, and not the WND version.
This well and truly puts the lie to Sarge and Tree's hysterical fears of christian political power...
blah blah blah blah blah blah. the ramblings of a truly insane man.
i've got no problems with Christians having political power, Baldwin. never have, never will. i honestly don't care if you're Christian, Muslim, Jewish, or even a Pastafarian, as long as you're not using your religion as a bully pulpit to force your issues down my throat and across the public sector.
if you do, however, it's a big problem. your religious beliefs have no business in my bedroom, in my pants, in my significant other's womb, in my house of worship, etc etc.
i've got no issue with religion, or religious people. i do, however, have an issue with people like you who constantly use your religion to attack others - it's as false as false gets, and it's a disgrace to people who truly believe in a fair and just God who believes in equality for all.
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| 5 | Perm Dude
ID: 58318178
Tue, Apr 17, 2007, 11:39
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ROFL! OK, Chicken Little, this legislation will prevent you from reading the Bible.
Do you have any idea of the Philadelphia case? Any at all? Didn't think so.
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| 6 | Baldwin
ID: 14358177
Tue, Apr 17, 2007, 11:43
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Neither Lot who warned Sodom and Gomorrah nor I have any intention of reaching into your pants.
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| 7 | Baldwin
ID: 14358177
Tue, Apr 17, 2007, 11:43
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Yes, we've discussed the Philly case before, PD.
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| 9 | Baldwin
ID: 14358177
Tue, Apr 17, 2007, 11:47
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Tree
To see the actual proposed bill, go here and set the search to look for bill numbers, then insert H.R. 1592 into the search engine.
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| 10 | Mattinglyinthehall
Leader
ID: 01629107
Tue, Apr 17, 2007, 11:47
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Alarmist.
Before calling it the "most dangerous bill in America" I think it should at least make it past the Judiciary Committee vote. This hasn't even gotten to subcommittee.
But what would you expect from a news source that doesn't offer any language from the bill, doesn't cite Conyers, who proposed the bill, and doesn't even offer so much as a watered-down proponent counter argument to any of the concerns presnted in the article?
Regarding the grannys in the linked commercial ads, all we're told about them is that they 'were thrown in jail in Pennsylvania under that state's "hate crimes" law – and faced the possibility of 47 years'
If WND was anything more than a propaganda rag, they would have mentioned that:
a) they were charged with numerous crimes including riot, failure to disperse, disorderly conduct and obstructing highways, which would gotten them arrested anyway, hate crime laws on the books or not.
b) they spent all of 1 night in jail following their arrest
and c) that all the charges were dropped, despite the hate crime laws already on the books there.
WND obviously knew all of those omitted details - they reported the story the week of the arrest.
JUDGE DISMISSES ALL CHARGES AGAINST “PHILLY 5” On February 17, 2005, a hearing was held before the Honorable Pamela Dembe of the Philadelphia County Court of Common Pleas concerning a Motion to Dismiss filed on behalf of the adult Defendants who have come to be known as the Philly 5. These defendants had been charged with crimes ranging from ethnic intimidation (a hate crime) to disorderly conduct arising from their preaching from the Bible at a gay and lesbian event known as OutFest. After viewing a tape of the event and listening to argument by Defendants’ counsel, C. Scott Shields, Judge Dembe granted the Motion and dismissed all charges. Judge Dembe noted that the First Amendment protects the right of free speech for everyone and found that there was no evidence to support any of the charges.
Mind boggling that anyone who endorses such a propaganda rag as a source for news could ever question the journalistic integrity of any other news source. But there you have it.
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| 11 | Baldwin
ID: 14358177
Tue, Apr 17, 2007, 11:52
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That the same legislation is actually in place and putting people in Canada and Australia in prison or seriously fined and is being pushed worldwide by UN initiatives is all you need to know that it's on it's way. That these laws are going up in corporations and states in this country alerts us that this country isn't going to escape this worldwide strategy of the immoral.
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| 12 | Perm Dude
ID: 58318178
Tue, Apr 17, 2007, 11:54
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Good. So you know that disrupting a permitted parade has nothing to do with preventing you from reading the Bible.
Here's an unbiased article that will have you nodding throughout, I'm sure. I loved this part:
After Dary Byczek of Brooklyn, Wisconsin, lost his temper and yelled at four lesbians living next door, and also wrote on the side of a truck parked on his property, "All lesbians will go to hell...". Oops! Just lost my temper there, officer.
The article, of course, should be a textbook case (literally) of bias in "journalism."
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| 13 | Tree
ID: 29082512
Tue, Apr 17, 2007, 13:02
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i'll admit to having a bit of A.D.D., and generally not paying attention to many things that seem to get long-winded.
having just read HR 1592, i'm not even sure where the concern is...seems like it's against hate-crime related acts of violence. if i'm wrong, someone clue me into?
regarding what you said in the original post
Very simply if this bill passes, any homosexual who doesn't like me reading Bible verses he/she doesn't like, can have me thrown in jail sans evidence.
i feel pretty comfortable in saying that nearly everyone on this board would stand beside you to protest such a thing as you indicated above.
however, the reality is that, well, your above scenario, isn't a reality. it is pure fantasy.
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| 14 | Baldwin
ID: 14358177
Tue, Apr 17, 2007, 13:25
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I would ask what Toral is doing or can do about the Canadian minister who was hammered for violating this type of law? What can he do even if he wanted to?
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| 15 | Tree
ID: 29082512
Tue, Apr 17, 2007, 13:44
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so, Baldwin, since you brought it up.
could you show me the part of HR 1592 where it says you can go to jail for reading bible passages if a homosexual complains about you doing so?
and then, could you show me the part where it says you can be tossed in jail with no evidence that you were doing such a henious thing as reading from the bible?
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| 16 | Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Tue, Apr 17, 2007, 14:27
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Perhaps its the Catholic priests reading bible verses aloud... and then subsequently turning themselves in -- as they are offending, well... themselves. You don't need evidence to charge yourself, right? Or are pedophiles not considered gay?
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| 17 | Tree
ID: 29082512
Tue, Apr 17, 2007, 14:40
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GO - Pedophiles may, or may not, be gay. but it's not their sexual orientation that makes them pedophiles - it's something else entirely.
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| 18 | Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Tue, Apr 17, 2007, 14:45
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Alright, well that joke would only apply to all the gay priests then.
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| 19 | Perm Dude
ID: 58318178
Tue, Apr 17, 2007, 14:50
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Nice hat:
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| 20 | Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Tue, Apr 17, 2007, 16:05
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Thats what I'm talking about!!! LOL...
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| 21 | Wilmer McLean
ID: 559351717
Fri, Oct 19, 2007, 11:40
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Chicago City Hall Bans Distribution of Free Newspapers
FreePress.Net
October 5, 2007
By Ronald Roenigk
Beware — reading this newspaper may make you a partner to a crime!
Bizarre as it may seem, on Feb. 7, 2007, the City Council voted 50-0 to outlaw the distribution of free newspapers, periodicals, and directories inside the city limits. Better call 311 to get the phone number for your alderman if you’d like to complain about this because using a White or Yellow Pages phone book that was delivered to your door recently may also make you a partner to a crime.
According to Title 10, Chapter 8 of the Municipal Code, as amended in February, an effort by Chicago’s city fathers to control litter has now made it unlawful to distribute free “newspapers, periodicals and directories of any kind on any public way or other public place or on the premise of private property in the city in such a manner that it is reasonably foreseeable that such distribution will cause litter.”
The legislation also outlaws leaving “unsecured bundles” of papers in both public and private property. This is precisely how many of Chicago’s community, alternative, and ethnic newspapers are currently delivered. ...
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| 22 | Perm Dude
ID: 18948196
Fri, Oct 19, 2007, 11:45
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Holy crap! Good find, Wilmer. I don't think this will stand even a first round in federal court. You'd have thought that at least one of the 50 would have borrowed a brain for that vote.
pd
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| 23 | sarge33rd
ID: 99331714
Fri, Oct 19, 2007, 11:49
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Indeed PD. There is no way in hades, that would stand up to a cursory review, let alone a full blown legal challenge.
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| 24 | nerveclinic
ID: 105222
Sat, Oct 20, 2007, 19:19
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Baldwin what credibility do you and WND have here?
The last time you made a similar post it's because "christians" were attempting to disrupt...stop free speech...of a group that had a legal parade permit.
They weren't just "using free speech", they were attempting to stop others who were speaking freely and had a legal permit. They literally were trying to make people giving a speech stop talking by screaming at the stage...your a joke sir.
You don't give a F about free speech, you want a religious police state.
It's 2007 Baldy. If you want to see what people living in the past are like, where your "beliefs" come from, take a trip over here.
I can introduce you to some people who don't share your religion but they are on the same wavelength.
Your views are hundreds of years in the past when the believers stoned people to death for having sex before marriage and thought the earth was flat (after all it's in the bible) Guess what they still are doing it in Pakistan.
We still have homosexuals having to flee towns where people like you live because they don't feel safe.
What exactly do you want Baldwin???
Everyone to be like you.
Everyone to be straight?
Is that the reality you are looking for?
Do you live under a Rock? In a cave?
It boggles my mind there are still people obsessing over what anyone is doing in their bedroom.
You are the last person on this forum who has any business discussing freedom or freedom of speech.
You really don't like freedom
What exactly do you want?
Clones?
1950?
1500?
Why don't you just move to Iran, there's no homosexuals there.
Then you will really feel free.
8]
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| 25 | Baldwin
ID: 125312919
Sun, Oct 21, 2007, 23:36
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What got into you all of a sudden?
The people you started off talking about were merely running a counter-demonstration. That you are troubled by that is ridiculous.
What do I want? God's Kingdom where indeed there will be no homosexuals. But that is a 'stone uncut by human hands' that will bring that about. I'm not asking human governments to do anything about that. I just want to see human governments to be benign caretakers until then. The less oppressive the better.
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| 26 | nerveclinic
ID: 105222
Mon, Oct 22, 2007, 08:09
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The people you started off talking about were merely running a counter-demonstration. That you are troubled by that is ridiculous.
Do we have to dig that thread up again? I tried to find it but couldn't. You wound up wit egg on your face.
Yes you tried to tell us that all the protesters had done was preach the gospel. What came out as the thread went on was that they actually were trying to prevent people with a legal permit to use THEIR freedom of speech.
Among other charges some of them stood at the side of the stage and screamed at the speaker to drown him out.
When this information came out your basic premise for the thread in the first place evaporated.
You see you are saying you are worried that free speech is being taken away from Christians but you were defending Christians who were attempting to prevent another person from giving a speech, who had a legal permit to be on the stage, because they didn't like the fact he was queer.
They were arrested because when the police tried on numerous occasions to have them respect the right of the speaker to his FREE SPEECH they became disorderly with the cops.
This all came out in the thread and that pretty much put an end to the discussion. Now we are rewriting history again I see.
By the way, the reason special "hate crime laws" have been passed is because in some jurisdictions crimes committed against queers and colored folks weren't being prosecuted and punished the same by red neck judges and police.
That's why the laws were deemed necessary.
Obviously, if these criminals who attacked these special interest groups were prosecuted and sentenced in the same manner there would be no reason for these "special laws".
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| 27 | Baldwin
ID: 125312919
Wed, Oct 24, 2007, 21:10
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Yeah right, in Philly gays are in some danger of being treated unfairly by the power structure.
You have that whole story upside down.
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