| 0 |
Subject: Marijuana Part II
Posted by: Perm Dude
- [313532323] Tue, Apr 24, 2007, 15:52
The earlier thread was getting too long.
Part of the difficulty in the marijuana debate, IMO, is the difficulty that many doctors have in dealing with patient pain. Here's the story of a doctor facing jail time for putting pain reduction above all else. |
Only the 50 most recent replies are currently shown. Click on this text to display hidden posts as well. [Lengthy or complex threads may require a slight delay before updating.] |
| 310 | Pancho Villa
ID: 59645318 Sun, Nov 04, 2012, 10:07
|
Colorado poised to pass Amendment 64 with the unlikely support of Tom Tancredo.
Tancredo, who ran for governor of Colorado in 2010 as a Constitution party candiate and was defeated by Democrat John Hickenlooper, finds himself once again on opposite sides of the philosophical spectrum of Gov. Hickenlooper who came out against Amendment 64 earlier this month.
“Colorado is known for many great things –- marijuana should not be one of them," Hickenlooper said in a statement. "Amendment 64 has the potential to increase the number of children using drugs and would detract from efforts to make Colorado the healthiest state in the nation. It sends the wrong message to kids that drugs are OK."
To which Tvert had strong words for the governor. "Governor Hickenlooper's statement today ranks as one of the most hypocritical statements in the history of politics," Tvert said. "After building a personal fortune by selling alcohol to Coloradans, he is now basing his opposition to this measure on concerns about the health of his citizens and the message being sent to children. We certainly hope he is aware that alcohol actually kills people.
|
| 311 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 149171815 Wed, Nov 07, 2012, 09:39
|
Well at least a couple things good came out of the election yesterday. Will be interesting to see how the federal government reacts to Colorado and Washington. I think the feds will fight back initially but they are not going to be able to stop this. The tide has officially turned and it is only a matter of time before mj is legalized across the country.
|
| 312 | Seattle Zen
ID: 468232814 Wed, Nov 07, 2012, 13:04
|

That's me with the beard just over the outstretched red arm. What a wonderful night, Barak Obama reelected and two states make marijuana legal. 75 years of prohibition falling apart at the seams.
I-502 is a winner!
|
| 313 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915 Wed, Nov 07, 2012, 13:13
|
I'll avoid going for the cheap joke about how you celebrated, Zen, and just say congrats.
Good job.
|
| 314 | sarge33rd
ID: 12554167 Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 20:25
|
Professional forums are abuzz over how to handle this re drug testing, work comp claims, liability etc etc.
Breathalyzer tests for alcohol, but what is the workplace test for "impairment" or "under the influence" for THC?
More and more, potential employers are using hair follicles in pre-employment drug screening. So, you're a recreational once in a while smoker who moves from CO to GA. Apply for work, get tested, its positive and they decline to hire you. Now what?
Dont get me wrong, I think legalization is absolutely the right thing to do, but as it happens incrementally, there will be issues to be dealt with.
|
| 315 | Mith
ID: 98342014 Wed, Nov 14, 2012, 21:09
|
Betsy Woodruff at the National Review Much ink has been spilt in describing the precise nature of the soul-searching the GOP is undergoing in the wake of getting totally shellacked last Tuesday. There are a plethora of suggestions — of varying degrees of helpfulness — as to how the Republican party can re-brand and re-orient itself; ranging from capitulating on taxes to deciding that gay marriage isn’t a hill to die on. But there’s one easy ideological maneuver that Republicans could make that would simultaneously burnish their stance as the party of freedom and expand their base while alienating the president from his. It is a move that might also make one swing state a little easier to win in 2016. Congressional Republicans and conservative leaders could get on the weed bandwagon. Yes, the National Review.
|
| 316 | Seattle Zen
ID: 3603123 Wed, Nov 14, 2012, 23:46
|
Congressional Republicans and conservative leaders could get on the weed bandwagon.
Our bandwagon has plush carpets and sofas. We've got a sweet leather sofa reserved for Republican leaders. What took you so long? :)
|
| 317 | Boldwin
ID: 1210341416 Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 06:48
|
Heck, I'd even be for election day opium dens. Keep them hippies down for the count.
|
| 318 | Tree
ID: 57842011 Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 12:04
|
Keep them hippies down for the count.
hi. 1969 called.
|
| 319 | Seattle Zen
ID: 47630913 Fri, Nov 16, 2012, 18:33
|
Drug dominoes begin to topple
Call it the Marijuana domino effect. Less than two weeks after Washington and Colorado voted to legalize and regulate cannabis, lawmakers in five other states say they are considering similar bills. In Latin American, Mexican President Felipe Calderon says Uncle Sam now has lost the “moral authority” to ask other nations to maintain the cannabis prohibition and combat trafficking. What didn’t seem remotely possible a fortnight ago suddenly seems inevitable.
Few would have predicted the pot prohibition could fall almost overnight like the Iron Curtain, nevertheless the two-state triumph for has set off a series of tremors that suggest the people’s will has shifted. America appears to have reached a tipping point in terms of attitudes toward cannabis and, if the weight of public opinion truly has passed the fulcrum, change could be rapid. Legalization campaigns are no longer smoky affairs financed by dime bags peddled by Cheech-and-Chong aficionados and Big Lebowski-Dude wannabes. They’re well-funded, well-organized and cross partisan lines: In swing state Colorado, pot outpolled President Barack Obama.
President Obama may be willing to go with flow. The U.S. federal government so far has refused to denounce — or accept — what has happened, even after the state governors asked this week for clarification. Obama faces 18 states that have legalized medical marijuana with a spectrum of regulatory models that range from supplying anyone with so much as a broken heart, to meting it out to only the seriously debilitated and dying. As a candidate in 2008, and again as president in 2009, Obama promised restraint when it came to enforcing federal laws against med-pot.
His record is questionable — he has been tough on states with liberal access and less aggressive with those maintaining more rigorous regimes. Regardless, many of his donors and advisers urge him to use his second term as a chance to pursue authentic drug-policy reform. He could watch as more and more states vote on legalization, or he could lead. Regardless, the dominoes have begun to topple: and Canada will follow.
|
| 320 | Seattle Zen
ID: 47630913 Fri, Nov 16, 2012, 18:48
|
Domino number three? Uruguay moved a step closer to becoming the first country to legalize marijuana, with lawmakers introducing a bill that outlines how the drug would be produced, sold and regulated.
The bill introduced Thursday in the lower house of Congress would allow citizens to grow up to six marijuana plants and to buy 1.4 ounces of marijuana every month. It would also allow for the licensing of marijuana clubs with up to 15 members, 90 plants and an annual production limit of nearly 16 pounds.
|
| 321 | biliruben
ID: 59551120 Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 02:15
|
Personally, I kinda hope the dominos don't fall too fast.
State as Laboratories for legalization
Public opinion about marijuana has moved sharply over the past few years; about half now support legalization. Tuesday voters in Washington State and Colorado took the leap of approving commercial production and sale for non-medical use, under more or less the same rules that apply to alcohol.
Ideologues on both sides are claim to know with certainty what the results of legalization would be; all good in the view of the legalization advocates, all bad in the view of those who support the current laws.
But those of us who try to study the issue scientifically find ourselves in a world of doubt. How much lower would legal prices be than current illegal prices? If there were heavy taxes, how much evasion would there be? Would buyers in a legal market favor possibly more dangerous high-potency varieties, or would lower-strength products dominate the marijuana market as beer dominates the alcohol market? Would legalization greatly increase problem marijuana use? Use among teenagers? (That might depend on the price.) Would there be an increase in auto accidents due to stoned driving? Would problem drinking decrease – or increase – as result?
All of those questions matter. None of them can be answered by abstract reasoning, or by studying small variations in marijuana policy such as decriminalization of possession for personal use. The only way to find out how legalization would work in practice is to actually try it.
|
| 322 | Boldwin
ID: 910431619 Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 12:15
|
Choom legalized, Hostess goes out of business.
Irony, sucha bitch.
|
| 323 | Tree
ID: 5810481713 Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 14:49
|
i have to admit, until Obama, i'd never heard the word Choom as a pot reference.
it was always slang for v@gina where i grew up.
|
| 324 | Seattle Zen
ID: 3603123 Tue, Nov 27, 2012, 11:36
|
"If anyone is going to have a marijuana institute, it really should be Humboldt State,"
A public university located in one of California's prime pot-growing regions has formed an academic institute devoted to marijuana.
|
| 325 | Boldwin
ID: 1511411012 Mon, Dec 10, 2012, 15:17
|
"Every time a weed smoker tells me Obama will stop DEA busts, I think, man, maybe it really does cause brain damage." - David Burge, Iowahawkblog
|
| 326 | biliruben
ID: 21841115 Mon, Dec 10, 2012, 15:49
|
States as laboratories for drug policy
Ideologues on both sides are claim to know with certainty what the results of legalization would be; all good in the view of the legalization advocates, all bad in the view of those who support the current laws.
But those of us who try to study the issue scientifically find ourselves in a world of doubt. How much lower would legal prices be than current illegal prices? If there were heavy taxes, how much evasion would there be? Would buyers in a legal market favor possibly more dangerous high-potency varieties, or would lower-strength products dominate the marijuana market as beer dominates the alcohol market? Would legalization greatly increase problem marijuana use? Use among teenagers? (That might depend on the price.) Would there be an increase in auto accidents due to stoned driving? Would problem drinking decrease – or increase – as result?
All of those questions matter. None of them can be answered by abstract reasoning, or by studying small variations in marijuana policy such as decriminalization of possession for personal use. The only way to find out how legalization would work in practice is to actually try it.
But actually trying it on a national basis carries heavy risks. If it goes badly – if, for example, heavy use and use among teenagers quadrupled – it would be very hard to put the genie back in the bottle. All those new users would become potential customers for an expanded illicit market if the drug were re-prohibited.
So the obvious way to learn something about marijuana legalization would be to try it out one state at a time: relying on what Justice Brandeis called “the laboratories of democracy.”
...
Hopefully the DEA will mostly keep their sticky fingers off, so we can learn something.
My guess is, that unless some bean farmer plows under 20,000 acres and plants Blue Haze in it's place, the DEA isn't going to step in. They aren't going to bother with a few plants in some dude's garage, and they likely aren't going to bother with stores that stay out of school zones. We shall see, however.
|
| 327 | Boldwin
ID: 4611521022 Tue, Dec 11, 2012, 01:18
|
I don't recall the feds cutting the Cali weed trade any slack when it went legal at the state level.
|
| 328 | biliruben
ID: 41431323 Tue, Dec 11, 2012, 08:57
|
It didn't go legal. Like Washington for the last decade, it was legal for medical use.
|
| 329 | boikin
ID: 532592112 Tue, Dec 11, 2012, 09:33
|
Re 326: Don't we know something from Canada already? I am not sure that one state would actually give us good answers, but lets assume it is allowed to play out, I am curios to see what results are. If I had to predict results will probably be somewhere in middle with legalization winning out based on saved law enforcement, though those savings will probably be nullified else where.
|
| 330 | PV in GJ
ID: 1010151016 Tue, Dec 11, 2012, 10:11
|
Here in conservative Grand Junction in Western Colorado, the expectations are a lot different than in Denver and the more liberal front range. The law allows for less than an ounce for 21+ and legal to grow up to 6 plants. Mesa County law enforcement indicates they plan to rigidly hold to those standards, so under 21 possession, a gram over an ounce, or 7 plants could land you in jail.
|
| 331 | Frick
ID: 2193319 Tue, Dec 11, 2012, 12:35
|
Didn't Portugal decriminalize drugs pretty much across the board? The results have been fairly positive from what I have seen. It will be interesting to see if similar results occur in CO.
|
| 332 | Mith
ID: 4310402110 Tue, Dec 11, 2012, 12:58
|
327 - I'd think that these dispensaries are able to openly operate out of public storefronts is pretty considerable slack.
Sure they haven't enjoyed total impunity but prior to legalized medical mj in CA and elsewhere, those proprietors would surely have been dealing with much bigger problems than we see.
|
| 333 | biliruben
ID: 21841115 Tue, Dec 11, 2012, 13:04
|
What we have seen here, at least when it came to medical, is they have been a bit overzealous with regards to proximity (250 ft?) to schools and parks. For example, the feds were sending cease and desist orders for storefronts that were near a regional bike trail, defining it as a park.
They'll focus on the kids with total legalization as well, is my guess.
|
| 334 | boikin
ID: 532592112 Tue, Dec 11, 2012, 14:21
|
That seems pretty standard since most states have laws that restrict sales and advertisements of alcohol near schools, parks, and churches already.
|
| 335 | Boldwin
ID: 3211181118 Tue, Dec 11, 2012, 19:30
|
I still am pretty sanguine about the chances the state moves will persuade the feds to play along.
The only things that nudge me that direction is the number of states where drug use is breaking out, and the very very careful and clever Colorado legislation language. They crossed a lotta t's and dotted a lotta I's. Fed's just might say they will have to swallow it.
|
| 336 | Mith
ID: 4310402110 Thu, Dec 13, 2012, 11:52
|
Pat Leahy steps up.
|
| 337 | biliruben
ID: 21841115 Fri, Dec 14, 2012, 12:43
|
Obama: Pot not a high priority
"We've got bigger fish to fry," Obama said of pot users in Colorado and Washington during an exclusive interview with ABC News' Barbara Walters.
"It would not make sense for us to see a top priority as going after recreational users in states that have determined that it's legal," he said, invoking the same approach taken toward users of medicinal marijuana in 18 states where it's legal.
|
| 338 | Seattle Zen
ID: 3310162612 Fri, Dec 14, 2012, 14:15
|
Avoided the real question: Are you going to target the marijuana stores? The marijuana producers? If the state licenses Joe Greenthumb to produce hundreds of pounds of marijuana to sell to retailers, are you going to come after him and seek 100 years jail sentences?
Of course you are not going to arrest individual users...
|
| 339 | Biliruben
ID: 358252515 Fri, Dec 14, 2012, 15:26
|
Yeah, sounds like holder is still mulling, citing kids and international agreements.
|
| 340 | Boldwin
ID: 1611461416 Fri, Dec 14, 2012, 17:54
|
Did I miss the discussion about finally lowering the prison sentences of low priority personal use, first time users with these ridiculously harsh sentences?
|
| 341 | Boldwin
ID: 41148209 Thu, Dec 20, 2012, 12:24
|
Potential brand names in Colorado:
Choom, Rocky Mountain High, Opiate of the Masses, Soma, cartel no 5, White-out, Cripple Creek, H. R. Puffinstuff, Mile Highs, rocky mountain stimulus
LMAO commenters
|
| 342 | Boldwin
ID: 320391116 Fri, Jan 11, 2013, 18:45
|
And pass the Cheetos.
|
| 343 | Seattle Zen
ID: 3310162612 Mon, Jan 14, 2013, 14:51
|
Feds Admit There's No Proof Mexican Drug Cartels Link to California Marijuana Grows
Recently, a federal Drug War official recently admitted what some growers and activists have been saying for years: if it really is the Mexican drug cartels operating in the forests, there is scant evidence.
The official in question is Tommy Lanier, director of the Office of National Drug Control Policy's National Marijuana Initiative. Buried in a Los Angeles Times story that ran over the holidays are Lanier's doubts about the reality of Sinaloas, Zetas, and other narcotrafficos in Mendocino and Humboldt counties.
"Based on our intelligence, which includes thousands of cellphone numbers and wiretaps, we haven't been able to connect anyone to a major cartel," he said.
Lanier said authorities have long mislabeled marijuana grown on public land as "cartel grows" because Mexican nationals are arrested in the majority of cases, and the narrative of fighting drug cartels helps them secure federal funding.
|
| 344 | Seattle Zen
ID: 3310162612 Thu, Jan 31, 2013, 12:22
|
As Washington state tries to figure out how to regulate its newly legal marijuana, officials are hiring an adviser on all things weed: how it's best grown, dried, tested, labeled, packaged and cooked into brownies.
Sporting a mix of flannel, ponytails and suits, dozens of those angling for the job turned out Wednesday for a forum in Tacoma, several of them from out of state. The Liquor Control Board, the agency charged with developing rules for the marijuana industry, reserved a convention center hall for a state bidding expert to take questions about the position and the hiring process. Washington and Colorado this fall became the first states to pass laws legalizing the recreational use of marijuana and setting up systems of state-licensed growers, processors and retail stores where adults over 21 can walk in and buy up to an ounce of heavily taxed cannabis.
Both states are working to develop rules for the emerging pot industry. Up in the air is everything from how many growers and stores there should be, to how the marijuana should be tested to ensure people don't get sick. Exciting times...
|
| 345 | sarge33rd
ID: 4609710 Sun, Feb 03, 2013, 15:49
|
The cost of a nation of incarceration
But nothing came close to the impact of the war on drugs. When it was announced in 1971, fewer than 40,000 people were incarcerated for drug offenses; now, it's more than half a million.
And here's the elephant in the room: Blacks use drugs at the same rate as whites, but go to prison more - nearly 3 out of 4 people incarcerated for drug possession are African-American.
(that from the top of page two in the article.)
|
| 346 | Boldwin
ID: 30137817 Fri, Feb 08, 2013, 18:37
|
From Breitbart's crew: a good conservative should want DC to butt the hell out.
Take us to the bridge, Peter Tosh.
The censor from hell will love this one.
|
| 347 | Boldwin
ID: 30137817 Fri, Feb 08, 2013, 18:40
|
I personally am curious whether the tax they set for it ends up being equal to the cigarette taxes.
|
| 348 | Boldwin
ID: 581501018 Mon, Feb 11, 2013, 01:25
|
Just once I wonder if we couldn't find something we all can agree on. This just might be it:PRISON NATION: The United States is leading the world in the percentage of population behind bars. Is this right for a free country? Probably not -- especially as so many prisoners go in for things (like simple drug possession) that just shouldn't be crimes to begin with. But, as this story in Mother Jones points out, the prisoners who go in for minor offenses often come out trained to commit far more serious ones. The Mother Jones website also has a page featuring links to all sorts of useful information on incarceration rates, prison costs, etc.
I believe that today's mass incarceration, together with authorities' often open approval (as in Calif. Atty. General Bill Lockyer's remarks recently) of prisoner rape, will be viewed the same way in the future that we view crimes like slavery today. Lockyer has apologized under pressure for his remarks, but he will no doubt hear them over and over again in prisoner lawsuits alleging -- correctly -- that tolerance for prison rape has official sanction.
Under Clinton much of the left soft-pedaled these concerns lest they be seen as piling on Janet Reno. Now the left is raising them -- but will the Right, usually an opponent of Big Government programs that don't work, step up to the plate? (I mean besides the libertarians, who can always be counted on to speak up, bless 'em, regardless of the political constellation of the moment). I regard this as a bigger moral test than stem cell research. - Glenn Reynolds, world's greatest blogger at Instapundit
|
| 349 | Mith
ID: 4310402110 Mon, Feb 11, 2013, 10:56
|
something we all can agree on. This just might be it
Interesting. With the apparent go-ahead from at least some sectors of the GOP, we just might be witnessing the first Boldwin position change of his Rotoguru career. Nice to see after all these years of squatting decisively on the other side of the fence.
That said, the increasing frequency of Boldy's memory lapses (such as the notion that he just learned about accessing deleted threads) has me wondering whether he recalls his former position on this issue.
|
| 350 | Boldwin
ID: 551521120 Mon, Feb 11, 2013, 21:58
|
Feel free to find the Boldwin post in which I supported the drug war ever on this board. You can find many where I disparage drugs and drug use, however my position on the drug war changed 15-20 years ago when William F. Buckley convinced me it was not producing the most good of all the options.
Another lesson in how hard it is to keep track of everyone else's positions, or perhaps a lesson in how little some people care anymore to do so.
|
| 351 | Boldwin
ID: 36114188 Mon, Feb 18, 2013, 11:41
|
Getting high.
|
| 352 | Perm Dude
ID: 201027169 Thu, Feb 28, 2013, 08:50
|
Its like the Institute for Creation Science being in charge of approving paleontology digs and the science of human evolution.”
|
| 353 | boikin
ID: 430211013 Thu, Feb 28, 2013, 10:03
|
That is bit of stretch, there is plenty of research being done in other countries.
|
| 354 | Perm Dude
ID: 201027169 Thu, Feb 28, 2013, 10:06
|
Is there any other medical research you would stop here because other countries are also doing medical research?
|
| 355 | boikin
ID: 430211013 Thu, Feb 28, 2013, 10:58
|
There is all kinds of research that is banned in the US but not in other countries, mostly on ethical reasons, but sometimes it can be rather trivial. I remember reading a study on placebo/alcohol experiment out of Australia, that would not have been allowed in the USA. PD, this is just one example out of many where something controlled more here then other places.
|
| 356 | Perm Dude
ID: 201027169 Thu, Feb 28, 2013, 11:08
|
The point is that it shouldn't be controlled. Researchers are in a catch-22: In order to prove that the ban is necessary, they need to do research which is banned in this country.
And, without in-country research, the DEA is unlikely to even consider allowing research-only work in the first place.
|
| 357 | boikin
ID: 430211013 Thu, Feb 28, 2013, 15:45
|
even if more research was allowed, what test do you think they would be able to do? They would not be able to do human trials. Like I was saying even doing human trials on alcohol are not really allowed. If you wanted to give THC to rats, you can do that now.
|
| 359 | Seattle Zen
ID: 3603123 Thu, Jul 04, 2013, 13:16
|
So, you want to be a legal marijuana grower or maven, here are the rules. First, you have to live here in WA.
Proposed rules for legal marijuana in WA
There may not be more than 500 parts per million of residual solvents or gas in your marijuana extract. There will be a test, so pay attention!
|
| 360 | biliruben
ID: 59551120 Thu, Jul 04, 2013, 13:20
|
Advice for Cannibis regulators
Kleiman is some sort of pot guru here in Washington now. I've been reading him for a decade on other stuff, so this was nice synergy. Smart guy, and not co-opted.
I wonder if he can post how the meeting went?
|
If you believe a recent post violates the policy on Civility and Respect, you may report the abuse via email to moderators@rotoguru1.com |
|
|
|
Post a reply to this message: Marijuana Part II
|