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Subject: Education - The Destruction of America
Posted by: Baldwin
- [10258919] Thu, Mar 12, 2009, 06:42
It is not for nothing that marxist radicals focused on the educational system in the 60's.
Those marxists who followed the Gramscian model of a slow march thru the institutions focused on destroying higher education first.
The iron fist of marxist politcal control is virtually complete on the campuses of America.
It is not for nothing that Obama's mentor Bill Ayers focused on lower education next, after the Gramscian project was nearing completion at the higher education level. He and his ilk have the intellectual framework complete for how they will destroy traditional education for the masses. That framework is GOALS2000. It is not unique to Obama certainly. In fact it is an ongoing worldwide project that has been in place and growing in influence for decades. The policy guidelines, the legislation, the leaders of education are all primed to carry out this agenda. Obama is only the trigger.
And here he announces the pulling of that trigger:It's part of a new mantra the Obama administration has of "cradle to career" education.
The officials, speaking on condition they not be named as they previewed the speech, said Mr. Obama will lay out broad goals and initiatives and will leave much of the grunt work to states, which control education. [each state already has it's own ever so slightly unique GOALS2000 policy ready] Still, he will call for a bigger federal financial commitment to paying good teachers and will call for a central clearinghouse to spread best practices to districts nationwide.
Mr. Obama will also call for expanding successful charter schools and will push schools to get better data tools. - Eventually this will lead to turning teachers and children into 'stassi' secret police monitoring and patrolling/controlling family life to an unimaginable level of detail.
- Eventually this will deterime whether the state even allows you to raise your own kids.
- Eventually this will lead to the governmnet's deciding what you can or cannot do for a living or whether you are even allowed to work, eat and live.
George Orwell was not kidding. |
| 1 | Tree
ID: 61411921
Thu, Mar 12, 2009, 09:18
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lulz
i like how you dropped the marxist bomb three times in the first three lines.
then you went into the faux-relationship "mentorship" of Obama and Ayers.
it's all really cute. always has been, always will be. sad, yes. but also cute.
this is also the THIRD time you've started a topic relating to Obama/Ayers/Marxism/Education.
infinite monkeys...
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| 2 | C1-NRB
ID: 31050820
Thu, Mar 12, 2009, 09:23
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infinite monkeys...
still misspelled "government" in the last line of their post:
"Eventually this will lead to the governmnet's deciding what you can or cannot do for a living or whether you are even allowed to work, eat and live.
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| 3 | Pancho Villa
ID: 30230125
Thu, Mar 12, 2009, 10:16
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After reading the Washington Times article, how in the world did you come to these bullet point conclusions?
* Eventually this will lead to turning teachers and children into 'stassi' secret police monitoring and patrolling/controlling family life to an unimaginable level of detail.
* Eventually this will deterime whether the state even allows you to raise your own kids.
* Eventually this will lead to the governmnet's deciding what you can or cannot do for a living or whether you are even allowed to work, eat and live.
Eventually, you'd have to make a connection that supports your analysis, but I don't see it.
I have two children in the public school system and I see absolutely no evidence of the state attempting to turn teachers and children into 'stassi' secret police, allowing me to raise my kids, or deciding what I can or cannot do for a living or whether I am even allowed to work, eat and live.
I was asked to meet with my 8th grade daughter's math teacher and guidance counselor yesterday, which I did. They were concerned that her progress in pre-algebra would prohibit her from advancing to the next level in the 9th grade.
They suggested she stay after school for tutoring 3 times a week and consider summer school in order to get the credits necessary to advance in the fall.
Is this the kind of 'stassi' secret police monitoring and patrolling/controlling family life to an unimaginable level of detail, you're referring to?
I'm pleased that her teacher and guidance counselor are concerned and dedicated to seeing my daughter reach her full potential. I'm pleased that they are willing to put in time after school to meet with me and express their concerns.
In the real world, those of us with real kids who attend real schools deal with real problems, and Karl Marx isn't one of them, unless he's somehow responsible for the cell phone, I Pod, MTV, drugs and general teen angst, especially as it relates to girls.
Granted, I live in the lily-white suburbs of a red and very religious state. Your experience may vary, but you've provided no evidence to support your claims and neither does the Washington Times article.
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| 4 | Perm Dude
ID: 25219128
Thu, Mar 12, 2009, 10:19
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You can't forget what leads to those eventualities:
Mr. Obama will also call for expanding successful charter schools and will push schools to get better data tools
Better data tools for schools? OMG! When I was is school they did just fine with the three TRS-80s in the computer room.
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| 5 | Perm Dude
ID: 25219128
Thu, Mar 12, 2009, 10:25
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One would have thought that, instead of quoting anonymous pre-speech sources, taking potshots at what he would say, and ignoring things that the Right might like (like Obama taking on the teacher unions by linking pay to merit), one would have thought to have looked for, you know, the actual speech.
Maybe it was easier to write a blasting, "here come the Socialists/Nazis" by ignoring what was actually said. But people are pretty tired of this kind of parsing partisanship.
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| 6 | Pancho Villa
ID: 30230125
Thu, Mar 12, 2009, 10:51
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Maybe it was easier to write a blasting, "here come the Socialists/Nazis"
It goes beyond that. Read the thread title:
Education:The Destruction of America
It puzzles me that someone can seriously offer that statement and call themself a conservative. It's presented to evoke an emotional response, which is what conservatives are constantly accusing liberals of doing.
As with many issues today, rather than concentrate on the nuts and bolts of education, it must be presented as a destruction of America agenda for effect. When that's your starting point, there's really nowhere to go. It isn't conservative and it isn't rational.
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| 7 | Baldwin
ID: 10258919
Thu, Mar 12, 2009, 11:17
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I know exactly how far they are planning on going. Go to th UN documents and read how far radicals are going in twisting the concept of 'children's rights'.
Go read all the GOALS2000 documents and learn what they mean by 'better data tools'. Learn what they are planning on asking your kids.
Go to the radicals in accademia and see whether they believe parents have a natural right to raise their kids or instead whether they believe that parents need permission from government and only after qualifying according to political correctness will they be allowed to raise their kids.
Some people spend their time in the bleachers booing along with the liberal cheerleaders.
Some people actually dig thru the documents for themselves and see the truth.
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| 8 | C1-NRB
ID: 559392411
Thu, Mar 12, 2009, 11:25
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Better data tools for schools? OMG! When I was is school they did just fine with the three TRS-80s in the computer room.
Three?! You had three?! We had one and were only allowed to touch it once a year.
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| 9 | Baldwin
ID: 10258919
Thu, Mar 12, 2009, 11:36
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Data tools as in...I see three times last month mommy raised her voice to you and yesterday she refused to let you and your 14 yr old boyfriend close the door to your bedroom and make out all afternoon...don't worry about that for long, honey. She's not allowed to impose her outdated religious views on you and she's already been warned about that. We'll find the right foster parents for you, you'll see.
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| 10 | DWetzel
ID: 33337117
Thu, Mar 12, 2009, 11:38
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Off the medications again?
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| 11 | Baldwin
ID: 10258919
Thu, Mar 12, 2009, 11:40
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Read much?
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| 12 | Perm Dude
ID: 25219128
Thu, Mar 12, 2009, 11:46
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Go to th UN documents and read how far radicals are going in twisting the concept of 'children's rights'.
Whatever you do, don't go to Obama's words! That'll just confuse you and turn you away from our Marxist scare tactics!
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| 13 | Tree
ID: 61411921
Thu, Mar 12, 2009, 12:19
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Baldwin - here's the last nonsensical thread you started in about Goals2000...
...ya know, it's that thread where you ignored my first response, because you're tired of being made to look like a fool by someone you don't respect...
but if you wanna keep spouting off, go back and visit post #1 in the linked thread. you are more than happy to make false accusations and spread lies, but when someone tells you man up and meet a challenge, you tuck tail and run.
always the same with you.
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| 14 | Baldwin
ID: 10258919
Thu, Mar 12, 2009, 12:21
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I don't care how he romances you down that path, PD. Just enjoy the giddy feeling of romance try not to figure out how he intends to screw you.
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| 15 | Perm Dude
ID: 25219128
Thu, Mar 12, 2009, 12:25
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Baldwin: Of the many people on these boards, you are probably the least qualified to counsel me on keeping it real.
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| 16 | Pancho Villa
ID: 30230125
Thu, Mar 12, 2009, 12:39
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Some people actually dig thru the documents for themselves and see the truth
That's not what you're doing. You're digging through documents and making up scenarios that aren't true, as in #9.
I have a 14 yr old daughter. I am encouraged by her educators, to discipline her in a fashion so that she attends school, dresses properly and follows school rules like not texting in class, which did get this response from the assistant principal:
I see where you have taken your daughter's cell phone for a week as punishment for texting in class. We appreciate you taking this matter seriously.
No junior high teacher or administrator in this country has the power to take a child from their home and put them in foster care. The scenario in #9 is a lie, and presenting it as the truth doesn't support your premise that
Education is the destruction of America.
DCFS can take children from a home. A court decides if foster care is the proper course of action. A teacher might be called to testify either for or against such steps, testimony based on the child's conduct in school, not what they do in their bedrooms with their boyfriends.
You've made up a fantasy world and insist on presenting it as truth. I suggest you consult a dictionary, along with your document research, and investigate the definition of "truth", since you appear to be clueless as to its proper meaning.
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| 17 | DWetzel
ID: 33337117
Thu, Mar 12, 2009, 13:29
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Re: 11--I read it the last time you started your very own special thread about this crap, a month ago.
Was there a reason that you couldn't be bothered to keep your ramblings in one thread dedicated to the purpose?
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| 18 | C1-NRB
ID: 559392411
Thu, Mar 12, 2009, 13:35
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I wonder when the ACLU can expect Baldwin's donation and endorsement. The government's intervention in family rights and right to privacy issues are right in their wheelhouse.
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| 19 | DWetzel
ID: 33337117
Thu, Mar 12, 2009, 13:40
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No, you have it all wrong, it's only okay to intervene in family rights issues and right to privacy when they conform to HIS beliefs.
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| 20 | Tree
ID: 61411921
Thu, Mar 12, 2009, 14:07
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see: Schiavo, Terri
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| 21 | bibA
ID: 4521916
Thu, Mar 12, 2009, 14:38
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Sometimes I think you have become some kind of caricature of......I don't know......
Baldwin, do you realize you often make Brig. Gen. Jack D. Ripper look like a flaming liberal?
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| 22 | Baldwin
ID: 10258919
Thu, Mar 12, 2009, 15:14
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Let me ask a question and nail you all down now.
Would the scenario I outlined of schools collecting intimate family details, deciding where you can and cannot work, and deciding to take children from their families if they are not politically correct...be totally unacceptable to you?
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| 23 | biliruben
ID: 461142511
Thu, Mar 12, 2009, 15:28
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Yes. Of course, the devil is in the definitions.
Running a brothel out of your home, or torturing people in your basement... the school might want to pass that on to the authorities. Devil worship or believing the the Flying Spaghetti Monster of Alpha Centuri - fine by me.
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| 24 | Baldwin
ID: 10258919
Thu, Mar 12, 2009, 15:34
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Would you find it acceptable for the government to take your kids away permanently if they refuse to answer intrusive questionaires?
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| 25 | biliruben
ID: 461142511
Thu, Mar 12, 2009, 15:37
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Do you think child-rapists should be allowed to keep children in their home?
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| 26 | C1-NRB
ID: 559392411
Thu, Mar 12, 2009, 15:38
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Last I checked we still live in a democracy that allows us to turnover the figurehead leadership of our government every four years. We also have the opportunity to change half of another branch (legislative) every two years.
I also recall seeing somewhere that only one branch can pass laws; and I'm pretty sure it's the same branch that requires half of it's members to go up for re-election every-other-year.
I still believe that the Silent Majority follow neither extreme that make politics in the USA such a spectator sport. (Not that I'm endorsing political spectatorism even though voter turnout seems to imply it is as much as any other "sport" is.)
Therefore I put no credence in your slippery-slope fallacious argument. Your attempt at Jedi mind tricks won't work here- we are not the droids you're looking for.
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| 27 | Tree
ID: 61411921
Thu, Mar 12, 2009, 15:39
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i like how Baldwin asks questions, but doesn't really address anything brought to him...
and then the questions he asks are all about the phrasing, and not reality.
"would you be opposed to a government sanction passed that would allow anyone anywhere to murder someone in your family, without repercussions?"
damned straight. but that's not what's being proposed.
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| 28 | Baldwin
ID: 10258919
Thu, Mar 12, 2009, 16:01
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Tree
1) You have never read UN document or GOALS2000 document 1.
2) So you are in no position in comment on what is in the pipeline.
3) It came up plenty of times when Texas tried to take an entire religion's kids, every last one of them.
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| 29 | Pancho Villa
ID: 30230125
Thu, Mar 12, 2009, 16:03
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Would the scenario I outlined of schools collecting intimate family details, deciding where you can and cannot work, and deciding to take children from their families if they are not politically correct...be totally unacceptable to you?
Asked and answered.
I have kids in schools. I deal with reality, not paranoid delusions built on the speculation of someone who has no idea of how schools function.
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| 30 | Baldwin
ID: 10258919
Thu, Mar 12, 2009, 16:08
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bili
Of course I don't think they should be allowed to be with child rapists.
By the same token I don't think some social worker, who is convinced by her radical feminism education to believe that every fourth kid has been abused, to grill you kid for 48 hours, after they've already denied being touched, about whether they were ever touched here...how about a milimeter lower...how about another milimeter lower until they implant some false memory or trick them into some false accusation. This happens.
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| 31 | biliruben
ID: 461142511
Thu, Mar 12, 2009, 16:21
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A lot of stupid, horrible shiznet happens Baldwin. Kids are allowed to be abused by their parents for long periods of time, and sometimes kids are taken away from loving families unnecessarily. Mistakes happen on both sides of the equation. What you try to do is find the proper balance to avoid the extremes.
That means not being so completely off-the-deep-end worried about one far extreme that you don't consider something perhaps something far more concerning and pervasive on the other extreme.
It means showing reason and moderation and having checks and balances for when we get it wrong. It doesn't mean demonizing the public education system.
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| 32 | Baldwin
ID: 10258919
Thu, Mar 12, 2009, 16:24
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I'm not demonizing the education system. I am pointing out the demon on the horizon.
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| 33 | biliruben
ID: 461142511
Thu, Mar 12, 2009, 16:26
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Your horizon is on some planet I don't recognize.
Conspiracy theory is fun and all, but at some point you have to open your eyes and consider that maybe people are just trying to make things better, not trying to steal your kids.
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| 34 | Baldwin
ID: 10258919
Thu, Mar 12, 2009, 16:36
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Yeah, reading 250 page documents of deliberately opaque UN and GOALS2000 documents is not fun but as you say, the devil most assuredly is in the details.
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| 35 | Tree
ID: 61411921
Thu, Mar 12, 2009, 20:08
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Tree
1) You have never read UN document or GOALS2000 document 1.
2) So you are in no position in comment on what is in the pipeline.
3) It came up plenty of times when Texas tried to take an entire religion's kids, every last one of them.
i was going to respond this properly, but there's no need. other people here already did, and as usual, you were taken out back behind the woodshed.
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| 36 | Baldwin
ID: 10258919
Thu, Mar 12, 2009, 20:19
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The thread is young. I of course will show you all, with your own two lying eyes, from the actual documents, exactly what I am telling you.
And then you will all respond with the witchcraft defense, 'That's too terrible, no one would really do that, it can't be true so it must not be true'.
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| 37 | Baldwin
ID: 10258919
Thu, Mar 12, 2009, 20:22
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And when it finally hits you that everything I said has come true, PD will still be standing in front of the barber shop like Floyd from Mayberry RFD, arms crossed over his chest, eyes teared up and glowing, saying 'isn't he wonderful?'
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| 38 | Tree
ID: 61411921
Thu, Mar 12, 2009, 22:35
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::gets popcorn::
i can't wait for Baldwin to explain some thing with his own lying eyes. it's usually quite entertaining...
::munches popcorn::
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| 39 | Baldwin
ID: 10258919
Thu, Mar 12, 2009, 23:35
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Tree can just watch other people think all day long. Almost as much fun as swinging on the tire, eating bananas and flinging crap.
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| 40 | Tree
ID: 61411921
Thu, Mar 12, 2009, 23:45
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You'd know Baldwin, because no one here flings more crap than you.
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| 41 | Pancho Villa
ID: 44244130
Fri, Mar 13, 2009, 10:42
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3) It came up plenty of times when Texas tried to take an entire religion's kids, every last one of them
There appears to be a huge disconnect in your thought process.
The Texas case, as well as some of your other projections, has nothing to do with schools or education. The children were involved with the Texas Child Protective Services, not the public(or private) school system.
This is the root of the ridiculous nature of this thread. You are making predictions, projections and speculations that aren't based in fact.
It's mind-boggling how casually you use the phrase - The Destruction of America - then attempt to apply the word radical to characterize others, as if your statement should be taken as a sound conservative position.
You then proceed to ignore those of us who actually have children in the public school system, who deal with teachers and administrators frequently, with admonishments of "What if....?" or "What would you do if....?"
For purposes of comparison, and to continue in the spirit of disconnect, what if I were to start a thread titled:
Climate Change - The Destruction of America
and used this link as support?
"The worst-case IPCC scenario trajectories (or even worse) are being realized," the scientists said in a statement. "There is a significant risk that many of the trends will accelerate, leading to an increasing risk of abrupt or irreversible climatic shifts."
The climate change panel predicted a sea level rise of 7 to 23 inches (18 to 59 centimeters) by the end of the century, which could flood low-lying areas and force millions to flee. But more recent research presented at the conference suggested that melting glaciers and ice sheets could help push the sea level up at least 20 inches (50 centimeters), and possibly as much as 39 inches (1 meter).
I have no doubt the response would be to characterize the warnings as a conspiracy of Marxist globalists intent on enslaving billions, or, to generalize, dismiss the notion of destruction through climate change as the product of the hysterical and gullible.
Whether the thread title is "Education - The Destruction of America" or "Climate Change - The Destruction of America", when the starting point is framed in the most apocalyptic of terms, there's no room for discussion or debate.
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| 42 | nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Fri, Mar 13, 2009, 11:53
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Anytime someone writes something and wants me to take it seriously fails almost immedeatly when in the first four sentences he says this phrase twice...It is not for nothing that
How am I supposed to take the poster seriously?
Then the catalog of vague charges with asolutely no data backup or reference.
Pretty amateurish and hard to even begin to take it seriously as anything more then fantasies.
Next time can you bring a little more substance when you are trying to whitewash someone we all already know you hate.
I'd drop the expression It is not for nothing that because it really makes it look like your education took place in a cave.
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| 43 | Baldwin
ID: 10258919
Fri, Mar 13, 2009, 12:08
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Patience, Nerve. I will show it to you. It will be written in inaccessible bureaucratic jargon. The fact that it literally enables everything I have said, will be dismissed by you and PV, 'because of course no one would want to use this enabling language to the full'. Except they do.
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| 44 | Tree
ID: 61411921
Fri, Mar 13, 2009, 13:30
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we're waiting Baldie. you keep saying you're gonna show us something. but it never materializes...
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| 45 | biliruben
ID: 461142511
Fri, Mar 13, 2009, 14:08
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Jeeezuuus, Tree. DO NOT egg him on.
Do you not remember him singing "Terri Schiavo, Terri Schiavo..." to the tune of Rock Me Amadeus for like 6 straight months?!? His spam has staying power.
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| 46 | Pancho Villa
ID: 44244130
Fri, Mar 13, 2009, 14:18
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The fact that it literally enables everything I have said, will be dismissed by you and PV, 'because of course no one would want to use this enabling language to the full'. Except they do.
What fact? Here's another word you butcher like true or truth. You're opining, projecting, speculating, not presenting facts.
I dismiss you the same way you dismiss climate change, except I did a much better job. Still, you don't see me saying,
"The fact that climate change will literally destroy the world as we know it...blah... blah..blah..."
I don't reference things in terms of facts(even though 200 scientists at the Danish conference did) because it's a theory, just as your ramblings about schools deciding what job you can and can't have and the other nonsense is a theory; a theory presented by someone who apparently has little faith in America and its citizens.
And again, why are we even talking about this? You're not the least bit interested in discussing the subject, since you continue to present your side as the one with facts, telling us It will be written as if you have a crystal ball and those of us who attempt to counter your prognostications are summarily dismissed as having our head in the sand, obviously too ignorant to understand the gravity of the situation.
Three years from now, my son will be in the same grade my daughter is now. He will have most of the same teachers, most of the same curriculum and most of the same rules and regulations. Bill Ayers will not be appointing the superintendent of the Alpine School District. Pictures of Karl Marx won't be prominent in the halls and classrooms. Teachers won't be involved in snatching kids out of their homes and sending them to foster homes. Neither will they be deciding what we can or cannot do for a living or whether we are even allowed to work, eat and live.
That's my theory.
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| 47 | Tree
ID: 61411921
Fri, Mar 13, 2009, 14:35
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come on bili - it's like poking a baby monkey with a stick. sometimes he runs off to play with his toys, and other times he throws poop at you.
it's the new roulette...
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| 48 | nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Fri, Mar 13, 2009, 14:36
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Baldwin, can you just start with this?
What does "It is not for nothing" mean?
Apparently my school was over taken by Marxists years ago because I never heard the expression and I have no clue what exactly it means.
I love it when someone is explaining to us how bad the schools are becoming and then they butcher grammar in that manner.
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| 49 | Baldwin
ID: 10258919
Fri, Mar 13, 2009, 14:44
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It means there is an agenda at work. It isn't by accident. It looks innocent but there is deep evil at work. There is more to it than you think you see. The surface may look still but below it the current is extreme.
Let me know if you need more explanation. It is a perfectly good expression.
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| 50 | Perm Dude
ID: 1520138
Fri, Mar 13, 2009, 15:01
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Sounds like many organized religions to me. Or astrology for that matter. You really should start writing astrological predictions, Baldwin. You've got a flair for the vaguely personal writing style needed.
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| 51 | Boldwin
ID: 17043236
Sun, Jan 23, 2011, 15:22
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The last word on public education. Nothing further needs saying. Just follow these steps.
P.J.O'Rourke
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| 52 | sarge33rd
ID: 280311620
Sun, Jan 23, 2011, 15:26
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Just out of curiosity;
It means there is an agenda at work. It isn't by accident. It looks innocent but there is deep evil at work. There is more to it than you think you see. The surface may look still but below it the current is extreme.
Is there ANY idea, EVER; put forth by ANYONE 'left of center', for which you would not say that exact same thing?
That's my question. My comment;
Leave it to the right-wing, to think education to be a bad or detrimental thing.
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| 53 | Boldwin
ID: 17043236
Sun, Jan 23, 2011, 16:07
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You of course, in rational moments, realize I don't think education is bad. I think paying twice as much for demonstrably inferior education is a bad idea.
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| 54 | Mith
ID: 23217270
Wed, Dec 07, 2011, 03:12
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Whatever you think of assessing teacher and school performance, what do we know about how they are designed and whether the designers are held accountable to the requirements of the future marketplace? Are they not typically reflective of curriculum standards?
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| 55 | boikin
ID: 532592112
Wed, Dec 07, 2011, 10:22
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Well this answers the question of why America can not produce more engineers, we can not pass a simple math test. It also shows that we need to move away from the mentality that every student should go to college.
this is my favorite part:He continued, “It seems to me something is seriously wrong. I have a bachelor of science degree, two masters degrees, and 15 credit hours toward a doctorate.
“I help oversee an organization with 22,000 employees and a $3 billion operations and capital budget, and am able to make sense of complex data related to those responsibilities.
with out saying what those degrees are in the meaningless, not to mention I have tutored several doctoral candidates that could not do the basic math required to do research. Secondly maybe he should consider the possibility that he only assumes that he is able to make sense of complex data, the reality is that he is probably only doing marginally better than job than any other college graduate would do.
Hopefully if nothing else the person who took the test will realize maybe the students are much smarter then he is giving them credit for.
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| 56 | sarge33rd
ID: 321137711
Wed, Dec 07, 2011, 12:37
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Here is the problem I have, with using standardized test results from an adult, to draw any meaning TO the test/ing:
I was a 4.0 GPA student in College and LOVED Math. Knew all the formulas, frontwards, backwards, sideways. Could mentally calculate a sq rt 6 or 7 digits right of the decimal, etc etc ect. HOWEVER, its been YEARS since I applied any of those formulas and what I recall of them right now, is that they exist. On a math test? Assuming multiple choice with 5 options, random luck says I should guess 20% correct. Taking those tests at the time I was in class? I was generally the 1st done, and scored 96%+ religiously.
I for one, see no validity at all, in evaluating the test score of a non-student.
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