I mean c'mon. Some things, you dont do. Just because you can doesn't mean it's a smart thing. Carrying weapons, to a political event, is just plain stupid and I don't know another way to look at it.
4
biliruben
ID: 461142511 Tue, Aug 18, 2009, 15:23
Ah, Sarge. You are looking at this all wrong.
Think of the glory among your fellow wingnuts of taking a secret service bullet.
We probably just got the attention of Carnivore, or whatever Obama-era relative is sniffing around the net.
5
sarge33rd
ID: 17681812 Tue, Aug 18, 2009, 15:30
Gotta love todays rightwinguts...
Kill Doctors to protest abortion (preservation of life anyone??)
Bring firearms to as Presidential Event...to protest the sitting President. (Put a target in your own back maybe?)
Lie about the "end of life" provisions within the health reform Bill, claiming all kinds of catastrophic scenarios; despite your backing THE SAME PROVISION in a previous reform Bill 2 years or so ago.
And then wonder why the majority of us people look at you lkike you're some crazed friggin lunatic. Maybe, juuuuuuuust maybe....because you ARE some crazed lunatic.
6
Boldwin
ID: 457431818 Tue, Aug 18, 2009, 19:44
Waaaay too early to get confident, but when Rachel Maddow gets despondent it's a very very good sign.
7
Boldwin
ID: 457431818 Tue, Aug 18, 2009, 20:35
8
Tree
ID: 41371322 Tue, Aug 18, 2009, 22:11
while he's nearly as loony as you Baldwin (with statements like right wingers having a coup so Glenn Beck can run the country), his bigger picture point is quite sound.
the fact of the matter is that it's only a matter of time before one of these gun-toting idiots does uses his gun at one of these rallies, and hurts or kills people.
then what?
9
Perm Dude
ID: 154552311 Tue, Aug 18, 2009, 22:38
Now now, tree. The only future the far right wants to talk about it the future that is in the Bible.
10
Boldwin
ID: 457431818 Wed, Aug 19, 2009, 01:06
Tell it to Aynn Rand.
11
Boldwin
ID: 457431818 Wed, Aug 19, 2009, 03:11
I've been really struggling to sort out my feelings about these people bringing firearms anywhere near the president.
Uhm, I don't think any other set of secret service agents would have ever agreed that the RTBA applied that close to the president.
So wtf? I have no idea what is going thru their minds.
12
Tree
ID: 41371322 Wed, Aug 19, 2009, 09:58
Uhm, I don't think any other set of secret service agents would have ever agreed that the RTBA applied that close to the president.
the problem is, if they gun-toting maniacs are not breaking any laws, what can the Agents do?
13
sarge33rd
ID: 17681812 Wed, Aug 19, 2009, 10:56
Precisely Tree. *IF* the agents act to keep these people at a "proper distance"; the Administration faces backlash for trampling the Bill of Rights and States Rights. If they don't....maybe nothing happens, maybe an assassination (or attempt) happens. Classic lose-lose proposition.
14
biliruben Leader
ID: 589301110 Wed, Aug 19, 2009, 11:08
The SS creates a federal zone around the president, where no guns except there guns are allowed. No one can enter that zone armed.
15
Razor
ID: 507101910 Wed, Aug 19, 2009, 11:11
I have to say that I think it's absurd that I can't carry a bottle of shampoo on an airplane, but I can carry an assault rifle down the street in some states.
16
sarge33rd
ID: 17681812 Wed, Aug 19, 2009, 11:25
agreed Razor.
17
Perm Dude
ID: 154552311 Wed, Aug 19, 2009, 11:28
Psst, bili: In this crowd, you probably don't want to use the term "SS" regarding anything to do with the President...
:)
18
Tree
ID: 41371322 Wed, Aug 19, 2009, 11:50
The SS creates a federal zone around the president, where no guns except there guns are allowed. No one can enter that zone armed.
i'm less worried about an assassination attempt on the president, and more worried about one of these morons firing his gun into a crowd, or pointing it at someone in anger during a heated debate in the street.
19
biliruben
ID: 461142511 Wed, Aug 19, 2009, 12:38
Heh. Right, PD!
20
Boldwin
ID: 6161814 Fri, Feb 18, 2011, 15:06
Unfortunately the nazi bastards at Planned Parenthood get to continue hacking and slashing their way thru the most defenseless among us...
House blocks federal aid for Planned Parenthood by a 240-185 vote.
22
Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522 Fri, Feb 18, 2011, 15:53
Another symbolic gesture that can only be made because they know the Senate will not go along.
23
Tree
ID: 320371412 Fri, Feb 18, 2011, 18:40
continue hacking and slashing their way thru the most defenseless among us...
ironic choice of words considering your support of a murderer who hacked and slashed his ways through the clothes of his victim.
24
sarge33rd
ID: 201211422 Fri, Feb 18, 2011, 19:00
post 8 above Tree...rather prescient considering Tuscon.
25
Tree
ID: 320371412 Fri, Feb 18, 2011, 19:33
while i appreciate that Sarge, i don't know if it was prescient, as much as it was obvious.
and it's going to get worse - much, much, worse.
26
Boldwin
ID: 141331820 Sat, Feb 19, 2011, 10:51
Tree
I have no idea what you are talking about and I don't care to know.
27
Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522 Sat, Feb 19, 2011, 10:53
So why post about it?
28
Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916 Sat, Feb 19, 2011, 11:16
I have no idea what you are talking about
It's an obvious reference to Lt Behenna's execution of an unarmed Iraqi, which you flippantly referred to in these terms:
Too bad he didn't tuck him into bed and read him a bedtime story.
While attempting to set yourself up as a paragon af virtue defending the right to life, you casually display a complete disregard for the sanctity of life in the same breath.
29
Tree
ID: 24115767 Sat, Feb 19, 2011, 12:31
I have no idea what you are talking about and I don't care to know.
of course. you've shown more than once you prefer to be ignorant and uninformed than be aware and knowledgeable.
30
Boldwin
ID: 441162018 Sun, Feb 20, 2011, 20:50
PV
If the prosecution's own expert witness says it was a righteous kill in self-defense from a known terrorist, who am I to disagree?
32
bibA
ID: 48627713 Sun, Feb 20, 2011, 21:08
who am I to disagree? Of course no one expects you to disagree with anyone who makes a point you agree with.
However, more directly pertaining to the subject of his post, I think it only fair to ask you to address the points PV made in post 55 of the Allen West thread.
33
Tree
ID: 320371412 Sun, Feb 20, 2011, 22:35
who am I to disagree?
because, of course, in self-defense, you always have plenty of time to cut the clothes off the man's body before killing hi,
and, of course, in self-defense, you always take the action of attempting to destroy and hide the body.
34
Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916 Mon, Feb 21, 2011, 09:20
If the prosecution's own expert witness says it was a righteous kill in self-defense from a known terrorist
If there was an ounce of truth in that statement, maybe you'd be on to something. One might have initially given you the benefit of the doubt concerning your defense of Behenna, based on ignorance, but now you're just making things up out of thin air.
The expert witness, Dr. McDonnell, never said it was a righteous kill in self-defense. Not even close. As for Mansur being a "known terrorist", that too is false. He was suspected in participating in an insurgency, and released after a thorough investigation by Army Intelligence.
35
Boldwin
ID: 281232120 Mon, Feb 21, 2011, 21:34
The prosecution's expert actually approached the defense team and said what? Have you been paying attention? After telling the prosecution that Lt Behenna's version of events was the only possible explanation of the evidence.
36
Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916 Mon, Feb 21, 2011, 21:55
After telling the prosecution that Lt Behenna's version of events was the only possible explanation of the evidence.
McDonnell said that in his opinion, Mansur was standing, not sitting., which would have made him the defense's best witness(really, the only witness for Behenna that could give any glimmer of hope for the self-defense claim).
You've translated that to he said it was a righteous kill in self-defense from a known terrorist.
The only possible explanation? Behenna said he lunged for his gun. The eyewitnesses dispute that. It's entirely possible to execute someone who is standing up or sitting down. Now, are you paying attention?
Prior to that, Behenna said he was going to kill him, led him away from the group, stripped off his clothes with a knife, then blew him up with a grenade after the execution.
I have no idea why you continue to pursue this case, as it makes you look foolish. His parents, I understand, they'll cling to anything, but your motivation is puzzling, especially when you make claims that are so obviously untrue.
37
Boldwin
ID: 281232120 Mon, Feb 21, 2011, 22:01
If I'm in court and the prosecution's expert witness is on my side I expect to win the case.
38
Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916 Mon, Feb 21, 2011, 22:07
You weren't in court, the prosecution didn't even need that witness, and Behenna is doing a couple decades in Leavenworth. Next.
39
Boldwin
ID: 281232120 Mon, Feb 21, 2011, 22:13
And if those prosecutors hadn't illegally hidden exculpatory evidence Behenna would be free and protecting me today.
40
Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916 Mon, Feb 21, 2011, 22:16
Behenna would be free and protecting me today.
What, as a neighborhood watch captain?
41
Tree
ID: 320371412 Mon, Feb 21, 2011, 22:31
...Behenna said he was going to kill him, led him away from the group, stripped off his clothes with a knife, then blew him up with a grenade after the execution.
hows someone who claims to be a Christian can be ok with any of the above - all of which is absolutely fact - is beyond me.
42
Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916 Mon, Feb 21, 2011, 22:36
Moral ambiguity.
43
Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522 Tue, Feb 22, 2011, 00:02
I guess the right to life ends at birth.
45
Boldwin
ID: 281232120 Tue, Feb 22, 2011, 02:55
To the extent it may have had mock execution tones to it, I don't approve of that. I don't believe it was very hard to bring out the jihadist in him. But that he was reaching for Behenna's gun I don't doubt.
46
Tree
ID: 320371412 Tue, Feb 22, 2011, 07:25
To the extent it may have had mock execution tones to it, I don't approve of that. I don't believe it was very hard to bring out the jihadist in him. But that he was reaching for Behenna's gun I don't doubt.
mock execution my ass - torture is more like it.
since when do people being executed have their clothes cut off their body with a knife?
But i suppose some Christians are ok with torture, are ok with cutting the clothes off a man until he were naked, are ok with desecrating their corpse.
47
bibA
ID: 48627713 Tue, Feb 22, 2011, 09:03
Baldwin - So is it currently your contention that Behenna did actually lead his prisoner away from the company against orders, take him under a bridge, cut his clothes off with a knife, and threaten to execute him, at which time Mansur showed that he truly was a terrorist because he lunged for Behenna's gun?
And, how does all this result in the grenade being set off under the body?
On a side note, of course there was a possibility that Mansur had connections with bad guys. If so, has anyone considered that the intelligence people may have come to an understanding wherein Mansur gave them information, and they then cut him loose (or tried to) with the understanding that he would gather further potentially important information for them?
48
Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916 Tue, Feb 22, 2011, 09:57
I don't believe it was very hard to bring out the jihadist in him. But that he was reaching for Behenna's gun I don't doubt.
If he was reaching for Behenna's gun, it would be a natural defense mechanism, given the predicament that Behenna had illegally perpetrated. But you've already stripped Mansur of his humanity based on bias, prejudice and racism. You've labeled him a known terrorist and now a jihadist, and you don't even know if he's Muslim. All you know is that Behenna suspected he knew more about a roadside bombing that killed two of his men than he had told army intelligence after 10 days of questioning. For all we know, he had cut a deal with army intelligence to provide information on the insurgency, which is why he was released. Saying he was a known terrorist or a jihadist is something you don't know, I don't know and Behenna didn't know. We do know that Behenna was obsessed after the death of his comrades.
On May 16, he got Mansur and another detainee from their cells, and took them to the platoon's living area. A dust storm had to wane before they could leave. With his interpreter, "Harry," Behenna took Mansur into a quiet corner between the trailers and questioned him about the April 21 attack.
Mansur was blindfolded and his hands zip-tied. He didn't answer.
"I'm going to talk to you later on today," Behenna said. "If I don't get that information today, you will die today."
When he got authorization to leave, the platoon loaded the two detainees, did some routine patrolling and stopped at a checkpoint in Mezra. A few of the soldiers noticed that they had freed only one of the Iraqis. They still had Mansur. link
The self-defense defense was ludicrous given the evidence. Behenna would have been better served pleading diminished mental capacity or some similar defense, given his reaction to losing two of his fellow soldiers. You might want to consider diminished mental capacity as a defense for your absurd position on this case as well.
49
Boldwin
ID: 281232120 Tue, Feb 22, 2011, 10:35
It was a Dirty Harry moment and he 'did feel lucky, punk'. Or at the very least like it was a good time to be a martyr.
50
Tree, not at home
ID: 3910441615 Tue, Feb 22, 2011, 10:51
It was a Dirty Harry moment and he 'did feel lucky, punk'. Or at the very least like it was a good time to be a martyr.
you are consistently ignoring the torture (cutting the clothes off the man) and the descretion of the body and attempted cover up of the crime.
you haven't even addressed those issues. you constantly go back to some moment in your mind where you believe one person lunged at another's gun.
this is the point - it's bad enough to be accepting of murder. absolutely horrible to excuse it.
but to also excuse those other crimes? that's even more inexcusable and imhumane to do so.
but if God is ok with that, well, hey, fantastic!
51
bibA
ID: 48627713 Tue, Feb 22, 2011, 11:07
it was a Dirty Harry moment and he 'did feel lucky
At that point, what were his options?
52
Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522 Tue, Feb 22, 2011, 11:19
Apparently, when you are about to be murdered it is only the terrorist who tries to save themselves. The non-terrorist, of course, will accept the judgment of the United States soldier, even if that soldier is wrong.
53
DWetzel at work
ID: 49962710 Tue, Feb 22, 2011, 11:24
Supporting self defense for brown people = hating America obviously.
54
Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916 Tue, Feb 22, 2011, 11:29
Here's some other previously unknown information the defense could have used in a diminished mental capacity defense.
A dark episode marred his adolescence though, and would affect him for years. When he was 13, his mother spent long spells in Denver working on the Oklahoma City bombing case, and the boys' grandparents watched them after school. One day, Michael told his dad the unthinkable: He was being molested by Vicki's dad.
Scott confronted his father-in-law and banished him from the house forever. Vicki was devastated.
They didn't press charges. Michael didn't want anyone to know what happened.
They got him into counseling, but he became even more withdrawn, and seemed uncomfortable in his own skin. He kept the abuse bottled up, refusing to talk about it. He occasionally became defiant with people in authority -- teachers, coaches. He resented his mother for keeping in touch with her parents. link
Defiant with people in authority. That would help explain why he was so casual with disobeying orders.
The images of people leaping from the World Trade Center on 9/11 haunted him. He wanted to fight terrorists, and he wanted to go to Iraq no matter how ugly the situation looked.
Of course, Iraq and Iraqis had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks, but, in Baldwinesque fashion, it's entirely possible that Behenna couldn't differentiate between an insurgency incensed that foreign troops were occupying their country, and rabid jihadists willing to fly planes into skyscrapers in the United States. After all, if those prosecutors hadn't illegally hidden exculpatory evidence Behenna would be free and protecting me today
Protecting you from what? Are you now, or have you ever been threatened by an Iraqi thousands of miles away? No, but there's a need to justify your hatred of Muslims, so a scenario is created that has no basis in reality. Hence, a Dirty Harry reference, confirming that a reality-based discussion is inconsequential in your insistence on creating a fictional fantasy.
55
Boldwin
ID: 58119236 Wed, Feb 23, 2011, 07:35
I wonder how it feels to be asked to serve as a taxi driver for a man you believe is going to be holding the detonator switch to kill you tomorrow like he did to your two buddies yesterday?
I'm wondering why they gave him that duty? Perhaps they were hoping he would use his own interrogation techniques. They sure didn't think he was the friendly neighborhood taxi driver.
56
Boldwin
ID: 58119236 Wed, Feb 23, 2011, 07:43
Are you now, or have you ever been threatened by an Iraqi thousands of miles away? No - PV
Every Islamist feels Americans are 'the great satan' and intends to turn the entire planet into an islamic califate.
Just keep telling yourself that isn't a threat.
57
Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916 Wed, Feb 23, 2011, 09:28
Every Islamist feels Americans are 'the great satan' and intends to turn the entire planet into an islamic califate.
Just keep telling yourself that isn't a threat.
As far as real threats to my life, liberty and freedom to golf 5 times a week, that wouldn't even make my top 40.
Have you ever really thought about what it would take to turn the entire planet into an Islamic caliphate? It can't be done by military means, since there is no unified Islamic military. And the militaries in most of Islamic countries, despite the billions in weapons we've sent or sold to some of them over the years, have no capacity to invade, much less conquer and control, the United States, Russia and China, the top three world military powers.
Discarding the ridiculous idea of an Islamic military world conquest to establish this caliphate, the only other scenario would be a worldwide social revolution. Maybe you're entranced by Glenn Beck's theory that Islamists, communists and other assorted leftists around the world are working in harmony to overthrow all world governments and insert themselves at the head of a new world order, with George Soros at the head of the table. The thought that Islamists and leftists, dominated by Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, atheists, agnostics and feminists, could form a coalition where the leftists subscribe to an Islamic society based on Sharia Law is...well, let's just call it the Moonbat Theory.
So I will follow your advice. I will keep telling myself that the idea of the entire planet turning into an Islamic caliphate isn't a threat. And until you give any kind of reasonable real-world explanation as to how that could be accomplished, you should tell yourself the same thing.
58
Boldwin
ID: 58119236 Wed, Feb 23, 2011, 10:59
I'm just now looking at the quality of the resistance they face.
59
Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916 Wed, Feb 23, 2011, 11:06
B, remind yourself. You live in Illinois, not Tel-Aviv.
60
Boldwin
ID: 58119236 Wed, Feb 23, 2011, 11:53
Yes, I live in the one that doesn't have a clue what they are up against.
61
Farn Leader
ID: 451044109 Wed, Feb 23, 2011, 12:31
Yes, I live in the one that doesn't have a clue what they are up against.
Fortunately we have fear mongers to let us know.
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