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Subject: Haiti Earthquake Posted by: Seattle Zen - Leader [055343019] Wed, Jan 13, 2010, 00:13  This is not going to be an easy recovery. Fierce earthquake rocks Haiti The earthquake, the worst in the region in more than 200 years, left the country in a shambles. As night fell in Port-au-Prince, Haiti’s capital, fires burned near the shoreline downtown, but otherwise the city fell into darkness. The electricity was out, telephones were not working and relief workers struggled to make their way through streets blocked by rubble. | |||||||
| 43 | Mith ID: 43914286 Sun, Jan 17, 2010, 22:02 | Sheesh I posted the thing because I thought it was cute. | ||||||
| 44 | Boldwin ID: 26451820 Sun, Jan 17, 2010, 22:04 |
And I started listening to podcast recordings and transcripts at the NPR website about Haiti since the earthquake but there is just too much to wade thru and I can't remember which day it was. Just trust me, the woman being interviewed said that gang members would confiscate the aid five minutes after it was given. How often? what percentage of the time? I didn't hear the whole interview and it wasn't all about that issue but the words I quoted were in that interview. | ||||||
| 45 | Farn Leader ID: 451044109 Sun, Jan 17, 2010, 22:10 |
Just trust me Sorry, I'd rather have proof when dealing with accusations like that. If you happen to stumble across it at some point I'd love to hear it. Until then I'll be skeptical. | ||||||
| 46 | Boldwin ID: 26451820 Sun, Jan 17, 2010, 22:14 | Am I the only one here who ever listens to NPR? No one else caught it? | ||||||
| 47 | bibA ID: 01116297 Mon, Jan 18, 2010, 08:10 |
No one will dispute that there are gangs and looters in Haiti. The posts that you object to were in response to your wording, that seemed to imply that the aid was not going to those for who it was intended, but to "the gangs". As if that was where all of it ended up, and that it was then a waste of the good efforts being made to aid those who need it. | ||||||
| 48 | Boldwin ID: 26451820 Mon, Jan 18, 2010, 08:47 |
MITH was over-reaching in his criticism and that was what I was refering to, certainly not making any recommendations about donation levels. I will add that Hugo Chavez recently accusing the USA of taking over the country is as backwards as can be. If anyone can restrain the gangs from raping the victims, it is the USA armed relief forces. | ||||||
| 49 | Mith ID: 43914286 Mon, Jan 18, 2010, 08:56 |
Boldwin, could it have been this interview with Jacqueline Charles, who covers Haiti for the Miami Herald? In that interview, when asked about the stability of the Hatian government (and just after the discussion touched on the problems with getting aid to the people who need it, she did in fact bring up gangs, but not quite in the way that you claim to have heard: The government is very stable. I mean I have to tell you, you know, I've been reporting on this country for years now and in the last couple of years, you know, yes, there was a problem with gangs, but those, you know, they were disarmed and in the last two or three years, the country has been enjoying relative stability. | ||||||
| 50 | Mith ID: 43914286 Mon, Jan 18, 2010, 09:02 |
MITH was over-reaching in his criticism Please. I did not paste that letter from Satan because it was such sagacious commentary. I didn't think a smiley face was necessary to confirm that I just thought it was funny. | ||||||
| 51 | Perm Dude ID: 5510572522 Mon, Jan 18, 2010, 19:21 | Cruise ships still docking at private beaches in Haiti. | ||||||
| 52 | Boldwin ID: 26451820 Tue, Jan 19, 2010, 06:07 | That's not the interview, MITH. | ||||||
| 53 | Mith ID: 159201318 Tue, Jan 19, 2010, 08:37 | Well in terms of settling any dispute over the liklihood of gangs stealing aid the moment it gets there, the contention of someone who appears intimately familiar with Haiti and current and recent events there should pretty well trump the second-hand account of some anonymous person in an interview that no one can find, yes? | ||||||
| 54 | Tree ID: 248472317 Tue, Jan 19, 2010, 18:23 |
Florida radio personality (and Hulk Hogan groupie) Bubba the Love Sponge said this on his Twitter account: "I say f*** haiti. Why do we have to take care of everybody our country is in shambles. Bubba" as a follow up, Bubba was asked to no longer show up at his second job, working for TNA Wrestling. He hasn't been fired yet, but it's likely coming, although he did issue an apology this morning. IMHO, the apology was less about keeping the job, and more to do with professional wrestler The Amazing Kong kicking his a$$ backstage at the most recent tapings.  Reportedly, Kong walked up to him, said "This is for Haiti" and punched him in the head. She then clocked him 2 to 3 more times. | ||||||
| 55 | DWetzel ID: 33337117 Tue, Jan 19, 2010, 19:22 | Bwahahahahahahaha. | ||||||
| 56 | Boldwin ID: 26451820 Sat, Jan 23, 2010, 00:00 |
I hear an awful lotta reports about aid not getting delivered fast enuff. Almost as if things are blockaded at the airport. Hope these reports are exagerated or false. I believe Hugo would say this no matter if it were false. Here is how it's done right. | ||||||
| 57 | bibA ID: 01116297 Sat, Jan 23, 2010, 12:13 | I know you would eventually get to the other religions that claim they are getting aid to those who need it most, but here is a source that you may have missed. | ||||||
| 58 | Boldwin ID: 26451820 Sat, Jan 23, 2010, 19:13 | No word on how that's working out, bibA? | ||||||
| 59 | bibA ID: 01116297 Sat, Jan 23, 2010, 21:07 | According to the site, 100% of their donations go to their charities. Personally I gave to the Red Cross. I guess it's just a matter of faith. Same as all the rest of them. | ||||||
| 60 | Pancho Villa ID: 29118157 Sun, Jan 24, 2010, 11:19 | I realize it's virtually impossible for the contingency that blames Hollywood for a myriad of this nation's problems to applaud George Clooney for organizing the "Hope for Haiti Now" telethon, which set a record for raising $58 million, but sometimes cynicism should be put aside when celebrities use their celebrity in a positive way. | ||||||
| 61 | Boldwin ID: 26451820 Sun, Jan 24, 2010, 16:23 | Did anyone say anything negative about it? Now we're on the applaus-o-meter? | ||||||
| 62 | boikin ID: 532592112 Mon, Jan 25, 2010, 11:03 | RE 60: Why do we not have more of these telethons? Kind of like the inverse of a lotto. Each month a different cause, Homeless in January, Poverty in February, heart disease in March...they could even theme them maybe like education in august... | ||||||
| 63 | Pancho Villa ID: 29118157 Mon, Jan 25, 2010, 11:31 |
re:62 I'm a bit suprised that you seem oblivious to the magnitude of the Haitian tragedy. Some estimates put the number of dead at 200,000, with 3 times that number injured, homeless and starving. And starving there means actually starving, as opposed to this country where starving means settling for a McDonald's value meal. It's the kind of disaster that demands immediate attention in order to avoid a death toll that could reach 7 figures. While I normally appreciate sarcasm, I find it hard to digest in this instance. | ||||||
| 64 | Perm Dude ID: 5510572522 Mon, Jan 25, 2010, 12:19 |
About 2% of the population dead (1 in 200). About 5 times that (or more) injured. NYC is about 10 million, I believe. Imagine 200K dead + many more injured, in a city with some of the best medical care and first responders in the world. It is so much worse in Haiti. I understand charity creep can seem tiresome. But the cost of still having your life and a little money is that you have to suck it up sometimes when faced with the reality. | ||||||
| 65 | boikin ID: 532592112 Mon, Jan 25, 2010, 13:47 |
I was only partial sarcasm, I mean if it really works why not put charity more in people's faces. Why do people give mostly at the holidays why not try and make it a year around cause? But the cost of still having your life and a little money is that you have to suck it up sometimes when faced with the reality. ??? | ||||||
| 66 | Perm Dude ID: 5510572522 Mon, Jan 25, 2010, 13:59 |
If your post was sarcastic than it doesn't really apply. But if your post was non-sarcastic, my reply was meant to point out that we (the haves) sometimes need to stop complaining about how tiresome responding to the needs of the have-nots can be. That's all. Your post, in fact, echoes something I heard over the weekend from a self-proclaimed "Palinite." Something like "how about Hollywood stop whining and throw a concert with their own money" kind of thing and "leave regular Americans out of it" about Haiti. | ||||||
| 67 | boikin ID: 532592112 Mon, Jan 25, 2010, 14:08 |
my reply was meant to point out that we (the haves) sometimes need to stop complaining about how tiresome responding to the needs of the have-nots can be. easy way to solve that is not to respond or respond more often then you do not feel guilty when you do not respond later on. | ||||||
| 68 | Canadian Hack ID: 10371623 Mon, Jan 25, 2010, 15:00 |
About 2% of the population dead (1 in 200). Which of these is correct? 1 in 200 is 0.5%. 2% is 1 in 50. | ||||||
| 69 | Perm Dude ID: 5510572522 Mon, Jan 25, 2010, 15:28 |
Sorry--200K dead (est) / ten million population (est) = 2%. One in 50. There was an earlier report (I don't think I bookmarked it) where an estimated 1 in 220 were killed. The percentage might go higher, of course. The epicenter of the quake was just ten miles from the capital, in which about 20% of the population lived. | ||||||
| 70 | biliruben ID: 16105237 Tue, Jan 26, 2010, 04:19 |
Translating David Brooks.TRANSLATION: Although it is true that Haiti was just like five minutes ago a victim of a random earthquake that killed tens of thousands of people, I’m going to skip right past the fake mourning period and point out that Haitians are a bunch of lazy n#$%#%s who can’t keep their dongs in their pants and probably wouldn’t be pancaked under fifty tons of rubble if they had spent a little more time over the years listening to the clarion call of white progress, and learning to use a freaking T-square, instead of singing and dancing and dabbling in not-entirely-Christian religions and making babies all the f!@#ing time. I know I’m supposed to respect other cultures and keep my mouth shut about this stuff, but my penis is only four and a third inches long when fully engorged and so I’m kind of at the end of my patience just generally, especially when it comes to “progress-resistant” cultures. I think Matt might violate our policy of civility and respect. ;) | ||||||
| 71 | boikin ID: 532592112 Tue, Jan 26, 2010, 10:02 | Why would you post the "translation" and not the original column? I guess shock and awe is more effective. | ||||||
| 73 | biliruben ID: 16105237 Tue, Jan 26, 2010, 10:04 |
I linked to the original column text. The non-lazy can easily click through. I just thought it was funny and somewhat on mark. | ||||||
| 75 | boikin ID: 532592112 Tue, Jan 26, 2010, 10:10 | oh i found the original text, It doesn't change your motive. | ||||||
| 76 | biliruben ID: 16105237 Tue, Jan 26, 2010, 10:17 | No doubt. | ||||||
| 77 | Pancho Villa ID: 29118157 Tue, Jan 26, 2010, 10:46 |
The translation was funny, if not entirely fair. Brooks is right in some aspects. We've spent trillions trying to improve conditions in countries like Haiti, and the results have been, in many cases, discouraging. By now, we should know that you can't just throw money at these countries and expect positive results. And let's be honest. Countries steeped in poverty with high birth rates create an endless cycle of misery for their poorest citizens that can't be improved unless a cultural shift toward responsible family planning is realized. | ||||||
| 78 | Perm Dude ID: 5510572522 Tue, Jan 26, 2010, 11:40 |
Sure. Now what will we do, exactly, with the American South? :) I think Brooks is so busy expressing his charity frustration to notice that he's trying to solve the wrong problem, here. His critique is like having a lazy brother-in-law who gets hit by a bus walking down the street, and complaining that the no-good lazy bones should have been in a car like any other decent hardworker. | ||||||
| 79 | boikin ID: 532592112 Tue, Jan 26, 2010, 12:02 | Or like saying global warming exists because we have data showing increasing temperatures. | ||||||
| 80 | DWetzel ID: 278201415 Tue, Jan 26, 2010, 12:09 | Er, no, that's completely different. | ||||||
| 81 | boikin ID: 532592112 Tue, Jan 26, 2010, 12:11 | but wait both show throw scientific study correlation. I am confused we pick and choose when we choose to use science? | ||||||
| 82 | DWetzel ID: 278201415 Tue, Jan 26, 2010, 12:13 | I am quite sure that you are attempting to use the term "scientific correlation" here either deliberately incorrectly or without understanding what the term actually means. | ||||||
| 83 | boikin ID: 532592112 Tue, Jan 26, 2010, 12:18 | No i am trying to use it deliberately correctly, read brooks is article is based on studies done, just as global warming is based on studies done. | ||||||
| 84 | Perm Dude ID: 5510572522 Tue, Jan 26, 2010, 12:21 | Again, though--solving the wrong problem. Like complaining about unemployment & crime rates in New Orleans in the wake of Katrina. | ||||||
| 85 | boikin ID: 532592112 Tue, Jan 26, 2010, 12:41 | So what is solving the right problem? | ||||||
| 86 | Perm Dude ID: 5510572522 Tue, Jan 26, 2010, 12:46 |
The biggest problems have to do with distribution. But longer term, we need to start thinking about infrastructure (including those things we did in Baghdad: sewerage, water, electricity, etc). This is an opportunity to re-build doing it the right way--there are virtually no construction standards in Haiti. But costs are a concern and that is a problem we need to address as well. Frankly, there are so many problems to be examined right now that talking about corruption, etc is distracting. | ||||||
| 87 | Great One ID: 46051211 Tue, Jan 26, 2010, 12:55 |
the "Shame on You America" debate You may have seen someone update this on Facebook. | ||||||
| 88 | biliruben ID: 461142511 Tue, Jan 26, 2010, 14:49 |
By now, we should know that you can't just throw money at these countries and expect positive results. And let's be honest. Countries steeped in poverty with high birth rates create an endless cycle of misery for their poorest citizens that can't be improved unless a cultural shift toward responsible family planning is realized. Agreed. And I would guess Matt would agree to (if you clicked through). That said, is a catastrophic natural disaster where millions who survived are left homeless and starving the time to discuss family planning? | ||||||
| 89 | boikin ID: 532592112 Tue, Jan 26, 2010, 14:54 |
But longer term, we need to start thinking about infrastructure (including those things we did in Baghdad: sewerage, water, electricity, etc). This is an opportunity to re-build doing it the right way--there are virtually no construction standards in Haiti. But costs are a concern and that is a problem we need to address as well. Frankly, there are so many problems to be examined right now that talking about corruption, etc is distracting. I believe this is the issue addressed being addressed. Re 87: I am sure if they had pictures of homeless people dying on the cover of every magazine and that is all they talked about everyday on the news you would get telethons for them too...It just human nature, nothing attracts a crowd like a crowd. I mean ask yourself why do celebrities adopt kids from foreign countries when they have kids in need of adoption here. | ||||||
| 90 | Perm Dude ID: 5510572522 Sun, Jan 31, 2010, 14:45 |
UN working on the food distribution problem. If there is one thing the UN has experience in, it is food distribution in devastated areas. This is good news, I think. | ||||||
| 91 | Building 7 ID: 471052128 Tue, Feb 02, 2010, 11:17 |
Does Haiti have oil ? | ||||||
| 92 | Boldwin ID: 26451820 Tue, Feb 02, 2010, 15:35 |
Great great find, B7! Amazing how divorced the democratic process is from how policy is really set. American people would not stand for the deliberate impoverishment of Haiti and this waiting game [for mysterious purposes] to develop, if they were aware of it but the media has these 'black hole' zones they won't cover properly like Africa also. And these families like the Bush's and their cooresponding oligarchs in Haiti just keep dealing in the dark. | ||||||
| 93 | Perm Dude ID: 5510572522 Tue, Feb 09, 2010, 18:40 | For those keeping track at home: Haiti death toll now set at 230,000 | ||||||
| 94 | Perm Dude ID: 5510572522 Wed, Jan 12, 2011, 20:49 | Haiti in pictures: One year later. | ||||||
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