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0 Subject: The Direction of the GOP IVor Campaign 2012

Posted by: boikin
- [532592112] Tue, Mar 06, 2012, 15:07

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1579Boldwin
      ID: 510591420
      Fri, Jan 16, 2015, 09:53
And while the DA's were looking the other way for the police, they were indicting and convicting many many innocent people, with not a whiff of concern for decency and truth, only an eye on their conviction percentage and their related political careers.

Illinois...what a state.
1580Boldwin
      ID: 510591420
      Fri, Jan 16, 2015, 10:03
The 'Kafka' continues...that situation in Chicago would still be going on but for one honest incorruptable man.

Patrick Fitzgerald

The corrupt combine crooks took one look at Fitzgerald afterward and knew exactly how they could handle him.

They pointed him in the direction of their relatively clean opponents, other good men like Fitzgerald. Nailing them for relatively minor indiscretions. [compared to combine standard operating procedure]
1581Bean
      ID: 121011511
      Fri, Jan 16, 2015, 10:48
Ya know, at some point you are going to have to trust the process or just keep your weapon loaded and at your side.

There used to be a popular song back in the late 60s or early 70s. The chorus was "they're coming to take me away ha ha" the laugh kept getting more and more diabolical. Wondering if its available on I-Tunes.
1582biliruben
      ID: 41431323
      Fri, Jan 16, 2015, 11:05
... to the funny farm, where life is wonderful all the time..
1583Bean
      ID: 121011511
      Fri, Jan 16, 2015, 11:19
Is it not amazing that most of us prefer honesty and integrity over ideology in our government officials? No matter how whacky our ideology is.
1584Boldwin
      ID: 510591420
      Fri, Jan 16, 2015, 14:05
Reality, what a concept. This system is so screwed up it's just crazy [like quantum mechanics] and if you think it makes sense you don't understand it. This world is the corrupted wasteland of the morally lost.
1585Boldwin
      ID: 510591420
      Fri, Jan 16, 2015, 14:10
Tell the victims of Jon Burge to "just trust the system". Let me know how that conversation goes.
1586Pancho Villa
      ID: 2131916
      Fri, Jan 16, 2015, 14:36
Then, there's

this system.

The chief military commissions prosecutor in the mid-2000s, Air Force colonel Morris Davis, later said he could not find any offence with which to charge Slahi.

The detainees lawyer, Nancy Hollander, said: Mohamedou has never been charged with anything. The US has never charged him with a crime. There is no crime to charge him with. Its not that they havent found the evidence against him there isnt evidence against him."

1587Bean
      ID: 121011511
      Fri, Jan 16, 2015, 23:48
Ever feel like you were being intentionally maniupulated to hate one another?
1588Bean
      ID: 121011511
      Fri, Jan 16, 2015, 23:50
Scary huh?
1589Bean
      ID: 121011511
      Fri, Jan 16, 2015, 23:51
That's a play that you cant afford a ticket to
1590Bean
      ID: 121011511
      Sat, Jan 17, 2015, 00:42
Rise above the noise
1591Bean
      ID: 121011511
      Sat, Jan 17, 2015, 00:46
Vive La Revolution!!!!
1592Bean
      ID: 121011511
      Sat, Jan 17, 2015, 00:46
Get real
1594Mith
      ID: 3692387
      Sat, Jan 17, 2015, 07:26
Foir the record, anecdotal cases can be useful in discussing some of the widespread problems with police. Here's one that illustrates one of the issues I take with the way police work is done in the US
Police were in pursuit of Anton Simmons, who had 17 warrants our for his name, when 22-year-old Joseph Swink crashed his car trying to avoid the police pursuit on Interstate 70.

They ended up grabbing him [Swink], tossing him to the ground, and were trying to handcuff him, said St. Ann Police Chief Aaron Jimenez. All the sirens and lights were going off. It was very loud and they couldnt hear anything the citizen was saying.

Swink is an accounting student at UMSL with no criminal record and was on his way home from an internship when he was accidentally involved in the pursuit.

Police say they were able to get him into custody using the least amount of force necessary, but when they finally had him in handcuffs on the ground, they heard on their radios that the real suspect was in custody at a different location.

Swink suffered severe damage to his ear and his vehicle was totaled.

I never really had 100 percent trust in police before, Swink said. But I really dont now.
Obviously well intentioned people make honest mistakes and this seems like such an example. His car was clipped by the suspect's car, and then when Swink's car filled with smoke, he ran from the car. So it's understandable that in the confusion, some of the police on hand were sure that he was their suspect.

But forget the wrongful arrest. This young man was very clearly assaulted, despite the fact that the police openly admit that they were able to bring him into custody using the minimum amount of force.



The chief of the St Ann Police Department says his detectives will not face criminal charges. And from what we've seen in police abuse cases, it doesn't seem likely at all that there would be any chance at a conviction, anyway.

And that's the problem that this anecdotal example illustrates. Whether it could happen just as easily to a white man (personally I doubt it) why is it ok to do this to a suspect who does not resist arrest, regardless of whatever terrible thing he might be suspected of doing?
1596Mith
      ID: 3692387
      Sat, Jan 17, 2015, 07:47
Here's another anecdotal case that enlightens us to more widespread issues.
I learned that an officer had put his gun up directly to Michaels right temple and misfired, then did it again, and shot him.

From the beginning I cautioned patience, though Michaels mother and sister were in an uproar. They had watched him get shot. But as an Air Force officer and pilot I knew the way safety investigations are conducted, and I was thinking that this was going to be conducted this way. Yet within 48 hours I got the message: The police had cleared themselves of all wrongdoing. In 48 hours! They hadnt even taken statements from several eyewitnesses. Crime lab reports showed that my sons DNA or fingerprints were not on any gun or holster, even though one of the police officers involved in Michaels shooting had claimed that Michael had grabbed his gun.

The officer who killed my son, Albert Gonzalez, is not only still on the force ten years later, he is also a licensed concealed-gun instructor across the state line in Illinoisand was identified by the Chicago Tribune in an Aug. 7 investigative story as one of multiple instructors [who] are police officers with documented histories of making questionable decisions about when to use force.


Wanting to uncover the truth, our family hired a private investigator who ended up teaming up with a retired police detective to launch their own investigation. They discovered that the officer who thought his gun was being grabbed in fact had caught it on a broken car mirror. The emergency medical technicians who arrived later found the officers fighting with each other over what happened. We filed an 1,100-page report detailing Michael's killing with the FBI and US Attorney.

It took six years to get our wrongful death lawsuit settled, and my family received $1.75 million. But I wasnt satisfied by a long shot. I used my entire portion of that money and much more of my own to continue a campaign for more police accountability. I wanted to change things for everyone else, so no one else would ever have to go through what I did. We did our research: In 129 years since police and fire commissions were created in the state of Wisconsin, we could not find a single ruling by a police department, an inquest or a police commission that a shooting was unjustified. There was one shooting we found, in 2005, that was ruled justified by the department and an inquest, but additional evidence provided by citizens caused the DA to charge the officer. The city of Milwaukee settled with a confidentiality agreement and the facts of that sealed. The officer involved committed suicide.

The problem over many decades, in other words, was a near-total lack of accountability for wrongdoing; and if police on duty believe they can get away with almost anything, they will act accordingly. As a military pilot, I knew that if law professionals investigated police-related deaths like, say, the way that the National Transportation Safety Board investigated aviation mishaps, police-related deaths would be at an all time low.
Obviously, I don't believe there is an epidemic of cops who go around executing suspects who are in custody and handcuffed. But I wholly believe that the same "thin blue line" sense of committed brotherhood that police officers claim is essential to their protection when patrolling the mean streets, leads to a certain immunity to being held responsible to their own transgressions.
1597Mith
      ID: 3692387
      Sat, Jan 17, 2015, 09:01
And of course, some of the problems I have with the way police work is done in America are not problems at all to other people.

Since 9/11, I see an increasing number of police officers who look more like members of ISIS than my image of American cops. Personally, I was a lot more comfortable around cops when they wore light blue shirts and funny hats and carried revolvers.

I was talking to my wife's uncle recently, a staunchly conservative gun collector and competitive shooter who agreed with me. He has no idea why the police department in his little 25k population town of Keane, NH needs a military wing with heavily armored vehicles and all the other trimmings.

He says he sees those guys all the time at the gun range. They show up dressed in their black fatigues with their faces masked and with automatic weapons, which no one else is allowed to use there.

I don't have to rely on anecdotal accounts to know that Keane is the same as most places around the country. America's police are becoming increasingly militant, in terms of appearance, training, equipment and attitudes.

Personally, I want cops patrolling my streets, not the military. And especially not some paramilitary outfit that employs the weapons and standards for use of force of a military but lacks anything like the oversight.

I do acknowledge that for someone who is more comfortable with the kind of growing authoritarianism we see occurring in our law enforcement officials, this isn't a problem at all. I've spoken with plenty such people, mostly because of the high number of cops in my extended family.

So I'm aware that I can only speak for myself.
1598Bean
      ID: 121011511
      Sat, Jan 17, 2015, 15:42
If you want to change the investigation process in your state, get to work and quit wasting time telling us about it. As the man told you, its not easy to fight City Hall.

Local governments are generally the most corrupt entities within our system, as nepotism and despotic rule inevitably occur. It happens even in our largest cities, where one would think it might be impossible to have people coalesce into a unified impervious front resisting oversight from anyone outside the "family".

I'll caution you that any review committee you choose to create cannot be composed of people who have no experience in law enforcement. You dont want an amateur review panel, the people must have law enforcement experience. If you accept that, then you will eventually see someone denounce that newly created review panel as biased when a ruling for anything other than avenging the loss comes out.

Well, the death's are tragic, both the one of the police shooting victim and the one of the suicidal cop. Not everyone is cut out for being a cop, but there is no sure fire, non-controversial way to decide which citizens should be given that authority. Nor is there any sure fire way to ensure that they continue to be the same person you thought you hired in the first place. Cops know which amongst them is the weakest link, supervisors try to get those guys off the beat, but you can only have so many dispatchers in a precinct. And then there is the desire of many cops to get off the beat themselves and they want that dispatcher job too. Pretty soon the chief has to use what he's got.

I'll tell you what I find fascinating. It's watching people lose their innocence when they begin to realize how fragile the enterprise they are employed in truly is. Then they start to see how all the flaws in their own sphere of influence correlate to our government, our commerce, our food supply, our infrastructure, and begin to comprehend the fragility of our way of life.

When 20 year olds become 30 and 40 year olds and they start to become supervisors in whatever their life endeavor is, they begin to appreciate how everything gets so messed up, cause they are the ones messing it up now. Not everyone is cut out to be a supervisor, but it generally comes to most of us simply as a result of qualifications that can only accrue with age. So, in many workplaces, a system of seniority eventually comes about even if not formalized.

If you perceive the system is not working for you, you start to think that maybe you shouldn't go along with the game and start to not trust the system. Depression becomes cynicism, cynicism becomes contempt. Contempt is very dangerous.

And what do all of these ramblings got to do with cops killing? Look at the age of most of the civilian victims that find their way into the news. Many of them are kids who are far more likely to have a low tolerance for authority. Put a chip on your shoulder for any reason, and you will appear to be resisting authority to the guy with the gun. He wants to go home tonight and he may not be in a good mood or may have some life struggle that's put him in a dark place. Or maybe he's become paranoid because of some story he heard about a cop getting killed. Is there any program, process, review committee, training or equipping etc. that will remove a cop from the human condition? That's a rhetorical question. Is there anything we can do to lessen the chance that people appear threatening to an arresting officer?

I ask myself, which is the big problem that has a better chance of rehabilitation:

A) disenfranchisement of our youth and minorities
B) police brutality

I vote the former. Jobs, jobs, jobs.
1599Mith
      ID: 8018814
      Sun, Jan 18, 2015, 10:35
Put a chip on your shoulder for any reason, and you will appear to be resisting authority to the guy with the gun. He wants to go home tonight and he may not be in a good mood or may have some life struggle that's put him in a dark place. Or maybe he's become paranoid because of some story he heard about a cop getting killed.

These are the best few sentences I've read in this forum in a while. Of course I don't believe most cops head out every day looking for minorities to harass. But that time on the job combined with the normal difficulties of life is dealt with by different people in very different ways.

Is there any program, process, review committee, training or equipping etc. that will remove a cop from the human condition? That's a rhetorical question. Is there anything we can do to lessen the chance that people appear threatening to an arresting officer?

I reject the latter question as superior to the former. The tendency of many young people to appear aggressive or threatening is every bit as much a part of the human condition as the bad day/professional burnout/fear/life struggles you cite.

I'm sorry, but the police work for us. As far as I'm concerned, when it starts to feel like the other way around, we have a terrible problem. So I'm going back to the former question, which you dismiss as rhetorical.

Is there any program, process, review committee, training or equipping etc. that will remove a cop from the human condition?

Of course there is! There is constant demand for better ways to weed out teachers (for example) who suffer eventual burnout. Why doesn't the same outcry exist for other public employees tasked with enormous (terrifying in my opinion, really) responsibility?
1600Bean
      ID: 121011511
      Sun, Jan 18, 2015, 13:40
Mith,

We're in violent agreement here. My contention is that it's the cop, the youth, the minority who are all victims of the human condition. Much of the friction between the cops and the people is that the people are disenfranchised and angry, while the cops bear the brunt of this discontent. The cops in-turn become angry and they have to fight harder to maintain their cool in face of disgruntled citizens while still trying to do the thing we all deem essential...maintain the peace.

Fix the core problem. Improve the human condition.
1601Bean
      ID: 121011511
      Sun, Jan 18, 2015, 14:04
What you think you know about me is that I was an Air Force officer and therefore I must be a right wing a$$hole.

What you dont know about me is that after my first tour of duty in business college, and before I joined the Air Force, I worked for the city of Cleveland in the department that adminsiterd the CETA program for our city under the Kucinich administration (google it). That should tell you somethng about my politics, my experience with dealing with community leaders, and my ability to not be killed by people who dont like me. I am not a Dixiecat, nor am I the heartless a$$hole that you find it convenient to see me as. I just want us all to get along, not be lazy and not be greedy. Kum bai ya
1602Mith
      ID: 8018814
      Sun, Jan 18, 2015, 14:20
What you think you know about me is that I believe you are a right wing a-hole.

What you don't know about me is that I am not nearly so presumptuous as you clearly are.

No Bean, I don't claim to know your politics, much less your opinion of mine.
1603Bean
      ID: 121011511
      Sun, Jan 18, 2015, 15:54
We've been down this path before in our American History. There have been accusations of police brutality targeted at minorities and youth before. We've all seen the toll on both the Viet Nam vet, and the war protestor when the volume is raised to that of gunfire too.

We've seen it and we did something about it. We've done minority hiring preferences, we've done sensitivity training, we've created Maranda laws, Internal Affairs departments etc. Its not a perfect system of checks and balances, but we did manage to get one in place. Instead of re-inventing the wheel, tweak that which is there already to your liking, but dont throw the baby out with the bath water. It will never be perfect.

The real problem is the lack of jobs for youth and minorities. That's what I said when I started the Ferguson thread and I still stand by that position. The rest is just noise, though I doubt the families involved see it that way.
1604Mith
      ID: 8018814
      Mon, Jan 19, 2015, 09:17
Instead of re-inventing the wheel, tweak that which is there already to your liking, but dont throw the baby out with the bath water. It will never be perfect.

WTF are you talking about here? Who is reinventing the wheel? We agree some LEOs are not well suited for working with the public. Should we not always be looking for better ways to make that assessment, to better weed out those most likely to endanger themselves, their colleagues and the public they serve?

Or is what you're objecting the notion that perhaps there should be another layer of oversight, prepared to react to situations where that fraternal sense of camaraderie becomes an obstruction to the process of mitigating abuse and misconduct from within?

The real problem is the lack of jobs for youth and minorities.

No there are a lot of problems. And only some of them are tied to race.

You do realize you are the one who insists on keeping race as the focus of this discussion, right?
1605Bean
      ID: 121011511
      Mon, Jan 19, 2015, 13:50
Mith, look at the report that bili linked....thats where oversight ends. Yet when the rulings come down, people complain that's not good enough. There are calls for improving the oversight that currently exists, not just in this forum but in the public.

So, tweak it, but you wont accomplish much. You have to fix the root problem not just put bandaids on something that is near to as good as it will ever be.

My real concern is that a large part of the Democratic party will be obsessed with this issue and make it the central plank of the platform. That will only increase the divide within the party, but it will also chase moderate Republicans and independents away. Even if you are successful in changing the oversight, your gains will be small.

Jobs is a unifying theme on both sides of the aisle.
1606Boldwin
      ID: 510591420
      Tue, Jan 20, 2015, 16:58
People will continue the bashing until bad cops [like bad teachers] actually get removed instead of coddled by those charged to oversee them.

The current situation is nowhere close to passing the smell test, Bean.
1607Bean
      ID: 121011511
      Tue, Jan 20, 2015, 18:50
Better get out the air freshener then Baldy, and good luck. Big waste of time, but it will make a few people feel better about themselves.

My wife's a retired elementary teacher BTW, so the analogy has a different meaning to me. Looks like another witch hunt in my eyes.

All too easy to blame faceless government officials for the demise of the American fabric.

Its the TSA who is to blame for the long lines in airports, right? Those darn lazy road workers are causing traffic jams too. DMV workers are just a bunch of lazy good for nothings, am I right? Dont they know they work for me? And those soldiers, send those guys to the front now, why the hell did they join if they didnt want to die for their country. Whiny bastards.
1608Tree
      ID: 161036918
      Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 09:17
the militarization of our police force is what's scary.

to me, it was an over reaction to events. do i want our police caught off guard like they were during the infamous North Hollywood shootout in the late 1990s? no.

but i don't think the overall overreaction and overgearing is necessary.

it's created a police force that is less about "protect and serve" and seems to be more "intimidate and scare."

i don't see a cop and breathe a sigh of relief that he or she is there to protect me; rather, i hold my breathe and hope he or she doesn't come after me for something i didn't do.

we live in fear of our police. it shouldn't be that way.
1609Bean
      ID: 121011511
      Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 11:33
Do you live in fear of YOUR local police? Or do you live in fear of MY local police? If its yours that scares you, its your issue and not a federal one unless you want to make it one. Your local government can be investigated by the DoJ.
1610sarge33rd
      ID: 390471112
      Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 11:47
Travel much? Like the idea of a militant PD, stopping you for out of state plates? Window tint legal in your state, but too dark for where you are driving through?

Tree's point is entirely valid...its damn shame, when citizens are reduced to fearing LEOs. The TRULY shameful part, is that black citizens have dealt with this exact fear for YEARS. Only recently, have we whites begun to experience it as well.
1611Bean
      ID: 121011511
      Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 12:03
Sarge I was stopped last August in Wyoming while coming back from the Sturgis Rally. Try driving with Colorado plates following the legalization of Marijuana here.

The cop was stalking me and just waiting for the inevitable jerk in motion to give him probable cause. It happened as he refused to pass me just before my lane ended. Gave him probable cause. He came up to the window and immediately put me on the defensive citing a chip in the window.

Nice guy on the highway alone, forced by his local government to generate as much revenue as possible from the annual event by harassing those seedy biker types. He was more scared than I was. His biggest concern was whether or not we were dealing and whether or not me or my companions might be packing. My buddy got ticketed for the joint he was smoking just before I got pulled over.

I feel your pain brotha. But it was a legal bust. I'm still going back this year. Just saying.
1612sarge33rd
      ID: 390471112
      Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 12:46
not so much here
1613Bean
      ID: 121011511
      Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 13:00
So, nothing in this description tells you that Tulyoganov might be angry with the cop before he even comes up to the window? Nothing indicates to you that he may have been the problem there?

OK, big boy. Put those big boy pants on, one leg at a time.

Did you see the routine that Larry Wilmore is doing...keeping it 100? Pretty funny stuff.
1614sarge33rd
      ID: 390471112
      Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 13:30
nothing in his demeanor or voice, indicate any degree of anger at all. You're reaching Bean.
1615Bean
      ID: 121011511
      Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 13:35
Invoking 5th ammendment for a traffic ticket? You sure we want to go there as a society?
1616Tree
      ID: 161036918
      Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 13:39
Do you live in fear of YOUR local police? Or do you live in fear of MY local police? If its yours that scares you, its your issue and not a federal one unless you want to make it one. Your local government can be investigated by the DoJ.

i have not had a moving violation in a vehicle in 20 years, and have never been pulled over speeding in my nearly half century on this planet.

i got pulled over a few months ago for rolling through a stop sign right in front of a cop.

he left his notebook in the car, and was too lazy to go back and get it, so when attempting to WRITE MY NAME ON HIS HAND so he could go back to his car and look me up, he decided it was a pain in the ass, and let me go.

i know how to behave when a cop pulls me over. i'm calm, roll the window down, and put my hands where he can see them, especially at night.

but it doesn't mean a cop knows how to behave when he or she pulls me over.

and that's my fear. too many times, cops have done the wrong thing, acted the wrong way, and done something like pull someone over for something asinine (not in this case.).

many police in this country are in cars that are sleek, vaguely marked or completely unmarked, and they hide and lurk in the shadows.

those cops aren't there to serve me, nor protect me.

those cops are laying in wait, trying to trick me, sneak up on me, and come after me for something i may or may not have done.

it's not on me. it's on the system our police have created for themselves.
1617sarge33rd
      ID: 390471112
      Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 13:45
re 1615....SCOTUS, made it necessary to state it. It is no longer assumed, that silence means invoking of that right. Blame SCOTUS, not society.
1618sarge33rd
      ID: 390471112
      Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 13:55
explain this one
1619Bean
      ID: 121011511
      Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 14:11
The need for revenue was not invented by the cops. Few enjoy that duty.

There are lots of laws that most of us break daily without even realizing it. For example, fact is when you are going the speed limit on most highways, you are the problem, not the guy keeping with the speed of the traffic around him.

Rolling stops is something almost everyone does, it started when we relaxed the laws to allow right on red at the same time we started putting more stop signs in drive through neighborhoods to keep the riff raff out and protect our kids who are in the street. You are less likely to have a rolling stop in your own neighborhood, cause "what would the neighbors think". That profile might help a cop protect and serve you, as it keeps strangers out of the neighborhood. But this example is with state police on a highway.

As the cop said, this entire thing could have been avoided if the jerk hadn't refused to give his true address, arousing suspicion on the part of the cop. To me, the cops kept their cool, despite the lack of cooperation the kid was presenting. The kid sounded a little high to me, though it may appear to me that way because of his accent, his speech was slow.

Next time you ask your kid where he was when he comes in late and he tells you its none of your business. Tell me what your response is.

Keep it 100
1620Bean
      ID: 121011511
      Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 14:29
What does dont you f***ing move mean? None of us can see what the cop is seeing. If we could, we may literally "see" things differently.

We got a different camera angle? What are they saying in the replay booth? Call on the field is shoot.

I couldn't tell, was the shooting cop black?

Keep it 100
1621Bean
      ID: 121011511
      Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 15:20
Ya know, I hear you guys saying there are too many guns in the hands of lunatics and its making us all vulnerable. I also hear you say that the cops are being too mean to these guys with the guns. How come they arent dying for us so we can do wtf we want anytime we want? And where are they when we really need them, at the donut shop and the speed trap?

Then you start whining about some kid who doesnt want to pay a traffic ticket and starts invoking law that was never intended for his use in that scenario. And you actually expect anyone to take you seriously?

WTF do you expect...really? Teach your kids the right way to behave, and expect the same from your neighbor. And for god's sake show some respect.

Dont be such pussies and get out there and do the job yourselves. There's a shortage of uniformed corpses in the morgue that need replacement. Bunch of whiny, pant soiling bastards.

Being 100 now
1622Bean
      ID: 121011511
      Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 15:26
And get off my lawn, punk
1623sarge33rd
      ID: 390471112
      Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 16:27
the guy was told to get out of the car...

Get out of the car...dont flkng move...get out of the car...


scared shitless cop who panicked...dead citizen results..


dirty shoot, and all too common
1624Bean
      ID: 121011511
      Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 20:01
Yeah, it kinda looked that way to me too sarge, but if I said anything negative, I'd risk being branded a racist since this is the first black cop we've brought to light. The camera leaves a bit to your imagination, so its all about the audio. Any shoot will be investigated by trained people who know the parameters and can apply them consistently. It's a new one, in yet another jurisdiction.

Not sure what the threshold of all too common is, never seen anyone try to define that, other than to say one is too many. It's kinda like that book "the Jungle" how many rat hairs is too many in a ton of grain? Oh, wait, was that what that book was about?

My correlation of all the events that we have discussed, is that there are three of four elements involved in each. A cop, a suspect, resisting arrest and possession of arms. You want to stay alive around a nervous cop, try making sure these aren't available elements of your encounter, you might want to ensure there is no suspect if you are looking for the best one to avoid. Now let's leave this for some idiots on some forum to debate as if their lives depended on it before the experts weigh in.

Got any like Baldy suggests, you know intentional pre-meditated executions? Should be great to watch, right?
1625Boldwin
      ID: 510591420
      Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 20:29
Not to be confused with Arkansides.

I have not suggested in this thread that regular cops engage in deliberate premeditated murder.

Unlike Bill Clinton's bodyguards. I offer them no such slack.
1626Bean
      ID: 121011511
      Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 23:31
You are correct Baldy, wasnt executions it was torture you talked about, darn alzheimers:

"Nineteen years of false convictions and torture."


Got any film footage for our enjoyment? Wait there may be a problem with net neutrality and our ability to watch it. It's a conspiracy to not let us see the footage.
1627Mith
      ID: 3692387
      Thu, Jan 22, 2015, 09:07
Regarding the video in 1618 - the passenger was never told to get out of the car.

The passenger was fidgeting and for some reason told the officer that he was going to get out of the car and the officer screamed back no you're not, no you're not, don't fvcking move".

The guy came out anyway, having to force the door open against the cop's body. Hands were up when he was shot but it happened very quickly.

I don't know enough about proper police procedure to know whether or not it was a "clean shoot" but the officer did not give contradictory instructions.
1628bibA
      ID: 24043919
      Thu, Jan 22, 2015, 11:51
I think I did hear the officer on the driver's side yelling at the beginning "get him out of the car."

The other cop was pretty damn hyper, possibly too nervous to be a good cop.
1629Mith
      ID: 3692387
      Thu, Jan 22, 2015, 11:53
Endeavoring to move the police abuse discussion to it's own thread. My phone gets a bit temperamental when I use it to post in threads this big.
1651Seattle Zen
      ID: 1610533022
      Wed, Mar 11, 2015, 00:48
People, this thread is CLOSED, too long, GO HERE
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