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Subject: Keystone Pipeline Posted by: Boldwin - [12214143] Wed, Apr 18, 2012, 11:34 All you need to know about the Keystone Pipeline. The outcome so far has nothing to do with the environment and if you've been acting as if it does, you are a useful idiot for... Warren Buffett owns 100% of Burlington Northern and the USA company that builds oil tanker cars, Marmon Industries. Bill Gates owns 20% of Canadian National Railway Company and is it's biggest shareholder as well as owning the Canadian subsidiary of Marmon Industries that builds oil tanker cars in Canada. He also owns 10% of Berkshire Hathaway A. Burlington Northern is the railway with the best North/South infrastructure and poised to be the Keystone alternative. The oil from Canada is coming and you've just been a tool siphoning the profits into their pockets. Chicago style crony capitalism writ large. Did you really buy that shadow boxing between Buffett and Obama? Used. | |||||||
| 96 | Perm Dude ID: 3210201915 Fri, Oct 19, 2012, 16:18 |
Keystone has temporarily shut down 2100 miles of pipeline because of safety issues. Remember when Republicans would pride themselves on caution and moderation so as not to jump into ill-advised schemes? | ||||||
| 97 | Boldwin ID: 4917199 Fri, Oct 19, 2012, 20:31 | I would consider opposition to every single energy source with proven technology AKA Obama's energy policy, to represent an ill-advised scheme. | ||||||
| 98 | sarge33rd ID: 12554167 Fri, Oct 19, 2012, 20:37 | Just what exact;y s conservative, about "drill, drill, drill", "ship, ship, ship" and "to hell with the environment"? Sounds more to me like someone driven by next Qtrs ROI, vs leaving anything meaningful for their children. | ||||||
| 99 | Perm Dude ID: 3210201915 Fri, Oct 19, 2012, 20:52 |
Has oil production increased or decreased the last 4 years? How about natural gas? The GOP seems hellbent on any help for green energy, but Obama has shown his willingness to back oil, natural gas, clean coal, and nuclear energies. | ||||||
| 100 | Boldwin ID: 4917199 Fri, Oct 19, 2012, 21:05 |
Obama has shown his willingness to back oil, natural gas, clean coal, and nuclear energies. - PD What desperation looks like. | ||||||
| 101 | Pancho Villa ID: 59645318 Fri, Oct 19, 2012, 21:08 |
What desperation looks like. I would consider opposition to every single energy source with proven technology AKA Obama's energy policy | ||||||
| 103 | Pancho Villa ID: 59645318 Fri, Oct 19, 2012, 21:21 |
Domestic oil production chart by year, excluding 2012 which is at 17 year high Would you trust any post by Boldwin? | ||||||
| 104 | sarge33rd ID: 12554167 Fri, Oct 19, 2012, 21:24 |
link took the extra 'h' out of PVs link above | ||||||
| 105 | Boldwin ID: 4917199 Fri, Oct 19, 2012, 21:31 | A 15 part series on energy written for those who are betting their own money and need to be reality based. | ||||||
| 106 | Boldwin ID: 4917199 Fri, Oct 19, 2012, 21:33 | Obama is not responsible for inventing fracking. He is responsible for hindering oil exploration offshore and on federal land, as well as preventing Canada from replacing Venezuela as our largest oil supplier. | ||||||
| 107 | Boldwin ID: 4917199 Fri, Oct 19, 2012, 21:42 | A perfect microcosm of Obama's energy policy is Solyndra, and Obama persecuting the Bakken oil field pioneers for a couple dead starlings. | ||||||
| 108 | Perm Dude ID: 3210201915 Fri, Oct 19, 2012, 21:44 |
Now on defense, Boldwin... I would consider opposition to every single energy source with proven technology AKA Obama's energy policy If true, this is simply not reflected in the actual numbers. So, either the President of the United States has virtually nothing to do with the number of wells being dug for oil or gas, or oil production, or coal (this will allow the Right to escape the intolerable position of having to give Obama credit) or he has something to do with it, and he's doing the opposite of what they say he's all about. So you can look at the numbers and say "Obama didn't do that!" But you can't say Obama is powerless on matters of energy extraction in this country and then blame him for anything having to do with energy. Oh, we've got a record number of oil and gas rigs operating right now. Damn you, Obama! | ||||||
| 109 | Boldwin ID: 4917199 Fri, Oct 19, 2012, 21:50 |
No, it's entirely consistent to recognize that American ingenuity has discovered more USA oil resources than in all Saudi Arabia in the last decade...and has discovered how to extract natural gas so efficiently as to produce an energy boom... ...while at the same time recognizing that Obama sits astride this history yelling stop, we're gonna go green even if the technology isn't ready. | ||||||
| 110 | Perm Dude ID: 3210201915 Fri, Oct 19, 2012, 21:51 |
Forgot to add: Obama directed the Interior Department to allow for fracking on public lands. I guess this is another example of his opposition? Crazy facts. Funny how often they bite you in the ass. Love how the Right likes to speak for companies like Keystone and gas companies, who have expressed no real problems with working with the Administration. Here's one of many easily-found responses from the gas producers about Obama. | ||||||
| 111 | Perm Dude ID: 3210201915 Fri, Oct 19, 2012, 21:51 | This is like political BP. Keep 'em coming. | ||||||
| 112 | Pancho Villa ID: 59645318 Fri, Oct 19, 2012, 21:57 |
more USA oil resources than in all Saudi Arabia in the last decade I suppose you're talking about the Green River formation again. If you're willin to be humiliated again with this claim, I'm willing to be the humiliator again. | ||||||
| 113 | Boldwin ID: 4917199 Fri, Oct 19, 2012, 23:02 |
I've listened to Van Jones. I've listened to Harold Hamm. I've researched this stuff. I've watched Obama promise to bankrupt coal. I know the record of enviro-opposition to the nuclear industry. I know how hard it is to get a refinery built. I know what the energy secretary feels we should be spending on a gallon of gas. I know the stupid amounts obama has spent on premature green tech. There isn't enuff spin in the world to make Obama the friend of proven energy sources. | ||||||
| 114 | sarge33rd ID: 12554167 Fri, Oct 19, 2012, 23:20 | researched this stuff? really? when did oyu start doing that? | ||||||
| 115 | Perm Dude ID: 3210201915 Fri, Oct 19, 2012, 23:47 |
We're not spinning, Boldwin. We're offering facts, and you are trying to dodge them because you've "done research" which apparently qualified you to try to rebut facts with your biased impressions. Keep them coming, however. I've watched Obama promise to bankrupt coal. Not exactly. He promised to bankrupt new coal-fired plants, by making them pay for their pollution. | ||||||
| 116 | Boldwin ID: 4917199 Sat, Oct 20, 2012, 06:53 |
If the oil industry invents fracking and unleashes extra natural gas, discovers fields like the Bakken... Obama can't take any credit. He didn't invent fracking. He didn't make it any easier to drill. He threatens them everywhere they look. He denies them drilling rights everywhere he can. | ||||||
| 118 | Pancho Villa ID: 59645318 Sat, Oct 20, 2012, 09:42 |
He threatens them everywhere they look. He denies them drilling rights everywhere he can. You continue to throw unsubstantiated accusations in the face of reality. The opposition to fracking in areas where there is a threat to groundwater isn't a threat originating with Obama. Residents of a northeastern Pennsylvania town who say their well water was poisoned by a gas driller.. ...residents in the tiny community of Dimock Township have agreed to a confidential settlement with Houston-based Cabot Oil & Gas Corp. Dimock became a flashpoint in the national debate over gas drilling and a technique called hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, after residents claimed in 2009 that Cabot polluted their water supply with methane gas and toxic chemicals and made some of them violently ill. Cabot denied responsibility. Federal environmental regulators tested the aquifer this year and found the water in Dimock is safe to drink, a conclusion disputed by residents who refuse to use their wells. State environmental regulators previously determined that Cabot contaminated the aquifer underneath homes along Carter Road in Dimock with explosive levels of methane.... link When local residents claim their water is being poisoned, do you expect the EPA and state environmental regulators to ignore them? Who complained about groundwater contamination in Pavillion, Wyoming? After local landowners complained about the smell and taste of their water, the EPA began in 2009 to analyze the groundwater outside Pavillion. The agency tested the water in the shallow wells that tap the groundwater above the 169 gas-producing wells in the field; in two municipal wells in the town; and in several surface and deep wells that it drilled for monitoring purposes. It found evidence of contamination in both the shallow and deep wells, and attributed the shallow contamination to the 33 or so nearby surface pits used to store drilling wastes. Residents in Pa; landowners in Wyoming. These are just the most high profile cases, both from 2009. while at the same time recognizing that Obama sits astride this history yelling stop It's 2012. Obama never yelled stop. Fracking is at an all time high, with more fields being developed daily. Yes, the EPA studies continue, as they should, in an effort to identify if and where fracking contaminates critical water sources. I've researched this stuff. And failed. | ||||||
| 119 | Pancho Villa ID: 59645318 Wed, Oct 24, 2012, 10:05 |
There isn't enuff spin in the world to make Obama the friend of proven energy sources. There isn't enough spin in the world which can deny what's actually happening in the real world. U.S. Poised to Become World's Top Oil Producer U.S. oil output is surging so fast that the United States could soon overtake Saudi Arabia as the world’s biggest producer. Driven by high prices and new drilling methods, U.S. production of crude and other liquid hydrocarbons is on track to rise 7 percent this year to an average of 10.9 million barrels per day. This will be the fourth straight year of crude increases and the biggest single-year gain since 1951. The United States will still need to import lots of oil in the years ahead. Americans use 18.7 million barrels per day. The increase in production hasn’t translated to cheaper gasoline at the pump, and prices are expected to stay relatively high for the next few years because of growing demand for oil in developing nations and political instability in the Middle East and North Africa. Still, producing more oil domestically, and importing less, gives the economy a significant boost. Of course, long term, crude oil will be replaced as the main transportation energy source, just as coal is being replaced as the main utility energy source. "We're using too much oil," Romney said. "We have an answer. We can use alternative sources of energy -- biodiesel, ethanol, nuclear power -- and we can drill for more oil here. We can be more energy independent and we can be far more efficient in the use of that energy." archived copy from Waterloo Courier - Sep 29, 2006 I've listened to Van Jones. I've listened to Harold Hamm. Have you listened to Mitt Romney? Of course, his current rhetoric has been altered to fit the irresponsible howling of the Drill! Baby! Drill! crowd, who can't even admit that we are drilling more and more effectively, resulting in the biggest single-year increase in domestic crude production since Harry Truman was president. | ||||||
| 120 | Boldwin ID: 2397243 Wed, Oct 24, 2012, 10:15 | Release the offshore, release the federal lands, release Alaska before you expect any pats on the back. | ||||||
| 121 | Pancho Villa ID: 59645318 Wed, Oct 24, 2012, 10:34 |
There is currently drilling offshore. There is currently drilling on federal lands. There is currently drilling in Alaska. | ||||||
| 122 | Boldwin ID: 2397243 Wed, Oct 24, 2012, 14:10 | If you had a 100% guarantee of an oil strike, you would die of old age before you saw a barrel of oil squeeze past the current EPA regulatory regime and other roadblocks. | ||||||
| 123 | Boldwin ID: 2397243 Wed, Oct 24, 2012, 14:10 | In those areas. | ||||||
| 124 | sarge33rd ID: 12554167 Wed, Oct 24, 2012, 14:18 | then, ummm...why are folks drilling there....right now? | ||||||
| 125 | Perm Dude ID: 3210201915 Wed, Oct 24, 2012, 14:42 |
In 2010, the Obama administration approved the first new offshore drilling permits in decades--since then 122 shallow water drilling permits have been approved for the Gulf of Mexico. Late in 2010 the deep water regs were put into place, and 167 permits were approved (including 140 after the BP spill). Additionally, early in 2011, the Administration approved 35 new offshore drilling permits. Right now Shell is drilling exploratory wells 90 miles off the shore of Alaska. Also: The claim is simply bogus that Obama hasn't already "released" offshore drilling. | ||||||
| 126 | Boldwin ID: 2397243 Wed, Oct 24, 2012, 15:26 |
Right now Shell is drilling exploratory wells 90 miles off the shore of Alaska. And the EPA is holding up virtually every last project. Letting them find it and then preventing them from recovering the oil is an especially excruciating form of torture. | ||||||
| 127 | sarge33rd ID: 12554167 Wed, Oct 24, 2012, 15:36 |
"... preventing them from recovering the oil..." Evidence please | ||||||
| 128 | Perm Dude ID: 3210201915 Wed, Oct 24, 2012, 15:41 |
There is no evidence--he's futurecasting. Boldwin assumes that the EPA will prevent Shell from actually taking the oil they find in the future. An opinion at odds with Royal Shell, I should add. A classic dodge. His point about Obama not allowing offshore drilling was demonstrated as false. Now he's saying "sure, but they won't let them keep the oil!" | ||||||
| 129 | Boldwin ID: 2397243 Wed, Oct 24, 2012, 16:55 |
Here is the devastating Obama obstruction that happens to companies who invest in gulf offshore drilling. Note the illegal and unethical government obstruction tactics including rigging the appearance of peer review. All the governments own experts deny they had supported the moratorium. Here is the devastating Obama obstruction that happens to companies that drill in the Alaska area set aside by congress for oil production. Since Shell began its journey to drill in the Arctic seven years ago, the company has negotiated an inefficient thicket of federal agencies, dealt with federal delays, and fended off numerous lawsuits from conservation groups. That should change, he said. This is what Obama is actually out to ensure... Solar, Wind Account For All New US Electricity in SeptemberYou don't want to know what's next and Obama is making sure you don't find out about it until it's too late. “The Obama-EPA plans to move full speed ahead to implement this agenda if President Obama wins a second term,” Inhofe notes in his report. “These rules taken together will inevitably result in the elimination of millions of American jobs, drive up the price of gas at the pump even more, impose construction bans on local communities and essentially shut down American oil, natural gas and coal production.” | ||||||
| 130 | Perm Dude ID: 3210201915 Wed, Oct 24, 2012, 17:12 |
The EPA is necessary to ensure we don't have even more Deepwater Horizon episodes. And you seem to be missing the fact that, despite the government actually taking seriously its mandate to keep an eye on the environment, wells are still being dug, and that the Obama Administration has been the one to allow new offshore drilling in the Arctic. Has is been a long process for Shell? You betcha. But is was Obama, not Bush, who approved the drilling. And you have no evidence that they will not allow them to keep the oil. None. | ||||||
| 131 | Pancho Villa ID: 59645318 Thu, Oct 25, 2012, 12:04 |
“To put it bluntly, the regulatory process for drilling in Alaska is broken; it is not efficient, it results in unnecessary and costly delays, and it needs to be fixed,” he wrote. I noticed you left out the paragraphs that followed, especially this one: Begich introduced legislation to create a one-stop shop last year, but that awaits Senate approval, said Miller. But the Obama Administration liked the idea and last year brought together several permitting agencies into a high-level working group that can speed up reviews of Alaska drilling projects. That doesn't exactly jibe with Here is the devastating Obama obstruction that happens to companies that drill in the Alaska area set aside by congress for oil production. A look at leasing in this area is inconsistent with Boldwin's claims of devastating Obama obstruction. Seven lease tract sales have been held by the BLM, in both the Northwest (NW) and Northeast (NE) Planning Areas. Lease tracts were offered in the NE in 1999, 2002, and 2010, in the NW in 2004, and 2006. In 2008 and 2011, lease tracts in both the NE and NW were offered. The BLM will be holding annual oil and gas lease sales for the NPR-A. The next lease sale is scheduled for November 2012. The BLM currently administers approximately 186 federal oil and gas leases. link That's more leases offered in Obama's first 4 years than in George W Bush's first 4 years. Rather than focusing on the barriers that prohibit expediting production(multi-agencies, never-ending lawsuits, revenue sharing, to name a few) while maintaining as much environmental integrity as possible with extraction in a fragile ecosystem in one of the few areas of pristine land remaining in the nation, we're bombarded with devastating Obama obstruction. Boldwin's abandonded any pretense of being a conservative and adopted a fully-embraced persona of a fringe right distortionist. | ||||||
| 132 | DWetzel ID: 25740420 Thu, Oct 25, 2012, 12:12 | Of course he has. Everything's Obama's fault. I'm pretty sure that he'd be undefeated in fantasy football if it weren't for Marxist Alinskyite Obama administration tactics. | ||||||
| 133 | Perm Dude ID: 3210201915 Thu, Oct 25, 2012, 12:40 |
That's not only more leases offered, but more leases offered before his first term is over, including a six-month pause for the Deepwater Horizon disaster. So in a little under 3.5 years Obama offered more leases than the oilman George W. Bush. Additionally, there are hundreds of miles of coastline that Obama opened up for exploration that were previously never available. | ||||||
| 134 | Boldwin ID: 349252518 Thu, Oct 25, 2012, 19:32 | It doesn't matter how many exploratory leases he allows or how creative he gets in reshuffling regulator bodies. The EPA is still gonna disallow those wells. | ||||||
| 135 | Pancho Villa ID: 59645318 Thu, Oct 25, 2012, 20:00 |
And so ends today's episode of Boldwin's Fantasy predictions. Be sure to join us tomorrow when Boldwin claims Obama and Ahmadinejad have been secretly carrying on a homosexual relationship for the past 25 years | ||||||
| 136 | DWetzel ID: 25740420 Thu, Oct 25, 2012, 21:13 |
Re: 134 --
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| 137 | Boldwin ID: 45133619 Wed, Feb 06, 2013, 21:42 |
Between the times they were puffing Obama's energy policies in April, and October, there was a 6 month lull in songs of praise to Obama. Was this the reason? | ||||||
| 139 | biliruben ID: 59551120 Thu, Apr 11, 2013, 09:40 |
Wow. Walked the whole dang thing.  I'd think about America, and about how the history of the place would come to life, and how my very path would be the rolling parchment onto which our history has been scribed. I'd felt the ghost of the Pawnee horseman at my shoulder. I'd seen the arms of the pioneer building his homestead. I'd heard the laughter of the Creole Cowboy. I'd admired the craftsmanship of the pipeliner, and marveled at the genius of the engineer. | ||||||
| 140 | Boldwin ID: 473201110 Thu, Apr 11, 2013, 11:27 |
My problem with those sentiments, in the laughing creole cowboy era they shouldn't count on inventions that haven't been invented yet no matter how plucky, nimble, inventive and compassionate they are. Don't trade in yer saddle until you see the expressway and buy the car. I'm all for solar chainsaws...when I finally see a good one. | ||||||
| 141 | Biliruben ID: 358252515 Thu, Apr 11, 2013, 12:00 | Sometimes easy does not equal better. Not always, by sometimes the hard way is better. Particularly in the long run. | ||||||
| 142 | Seattle Zen ID: 3310162612 Thu, Apr 11, 2013, 14:47 |
The alternative to the Keystone XL is to build a Canadian pipeline from Alberta to BC and ship it someplace to be refined. The refusal to build the pipeline does not stop the tar sands from being extracted and refined, it will actual increase the amount of fuel and greenhouse gasses emitted in order to accomplish their goal. If that dude walked the Alberta-BC route, I think he would also find some amazing scenery and fragile ecosystems. The opposition the the XL is misplaced. All the lobbying needs to be focused on Canada. In the end, the XL opponents want tar sands oil to remain in the ground. Stopping the XL won't accomplish this goal. Convincing the Canadians to leave the tar sands in the ground is the only way, and good luck with that. | ||||||
| 143 | Biliruben ID: 358252515 Thu, Apr 11, 2013, 17:41 | I haven't verified, but I was assuming the hiker was Canadian. At least he started in northern Alberta and referred to himself as a North American. | ||||||
| 144 | Seattle Zen ID: 3310162612 Thu, Apr 11, 2013, 18:47 |
The way I see the opposition to the XL pipeline is thus: Citizens X are rabidly anti-beef and anti-factory farming/ranching. They are protesting the creation of a special railroad through the US to transport cows from Alberta to Texas because it could derail and kill a bunch of cows, they expel the cow manure from the cars as they are rolling, fouling the aquifer, the cows create a lot of methane gas, etc... but really, they just hate the slaughter of cows. The Canadian ranchers simply ship their cattle to the BC coast and then they get shipped to slaughterhouses elsewhere, not a single cow is spared. Citizens X declare victory. As long as it is economically profitable, those tar sands will be made into gasoline, climate be damned, XL pipeline or not. Alison Redford, the premier of the Canadian province that is home to the oil sands formations that would supply the proposed Keystone XL pipeline to the United States, said Tuesday that critics of the project had distorted its environmental effects and exaggerated the impact of developing the oil. “We’re an exporting economy,” she said, insisting that the billions of barrels of heavy crude known as bitumen embedded in tarlike formations will be exploited with or without the pipeline. “Alberta does have other options,” she said, including pipeline or overland transport to Canada’s Atlantic or Pacific coasts or even to the Arctic Ocean. Look, I'm certainly not a Big Oil apologist, but I know a losing battle when I see one. | ||||||
| 145 | Biliruben ID: 358252515 Thu, Apr 11, 2013, 19:08 | I'm not really up on the issue, and haven't really formed an opinion. The website, writing and pics of the dude who hiked it sure are cool tho. | ||||||
| 146 | Perm Dude ID: 201027169 Thu, Apr 11, 2013, 19:11 |
If you define the battle as "stopping the tar sands from being extracted" then, sure. But maybe the battle is "stopping a more poorly constructed pipeline from going across the country (the pipeline through Canada will have a better BMP throughout). So maybe it is better to force the oil into a better and more expensive pipeline, in the end, strictly through Canada. I could certainly live with that. | ||||||
| 147 | Boldwin ID: 16361119 Thu, Apr 11, 2013, 20:12 |
I know a losing battle when I see one. - SZ The going wage for a truck driver there is $200,000 a yr. | ||||||
| 148 | Perm Dude ID: 201027169 Thu, Apr 11, 2013, 20:28 | On the other hand, the non-fiction news. | ||||||
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