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Subject: Crimea
Posted by: Perm Dude
- [431013412] Sun, Mar 02, 2014, 15:40
Some good historical background, and a caution to tread lightly.
Of course, Putin has already ignored the advice. |
| 1 | Boldwin
ID: 58228215
Sun, Mar 02, 2014, 16:32
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Interesting but incomplete. Any discussion that does not include Soros' involvement is missing half the story. Those are his forces organizing things on that side, not the least of which is that whore, John McCain.
It would be so easy to knee-jerk react and take the anti-Russian position considering Russia deliberately starved to death 5 million Ukranians and imported what is now the 'compatriot' portion of the electorate.
It would be equally easy to view the current limited situation as essentially no different than the USA's position vis-a-vis Guantanamo, deciding they just wouldn't bother recognizing Cuba in this portion of the map.
I think the talk of world war precursor metaphors is not at all misplaced.
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| 3 | Boldwin
ID: 58228215
Sun, Mar 02, 2014, 20:33
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Open Society
Libya redux
Soros invented Responsibility To Protect Doctrine that is the current modus operandi that seems to have replaced 'nation building' as a 'policeman to the world' excuse.
Forbes explains.
McCain the whore actually set up a foundation to funnel Soros' Open Society money and Tides Foundation money into the pockets of his own staff. He got caught with his hand too far in the cookie jar and had to cut ties, but he's still so deep in Soros' hip pocket...that he's pushing the 'we're all Ukrainians now' meme while he pushes for full scale war.
Soros has spent massive resources to create the new political class that he'll own in the Ukraine and he will cash in as soon as he can get the West to back his scheme.
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| 7 | nerveclinic
ID: 54039114
Mon, Mar 03, 2014, 12:58
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OK there is a long history and we can go back and back and discover this and that. But from Russia's perspective, you know the one we don't hear much in the USA, these concepts are true.
1) Crimea was part of Russia proper (Not USSR) Until given to the Ukrainians as a gift in 1954 by Khrushchev who was part Ukranian.
2) According to the 2001 Ukrainian population census 58% of the population of Crimea are ethnic Russians and 24% are ethnic Ukrainians.
3) A lot of Crimeans (according to the Western Press) are more inclined to want to be tied to Russia then the rest of Europe
4) A lot of Crimeans, according to Western Press, were not going along with the revolution in Kiev.
5) A lot of Crimeans have welcomed Russia's visit.
These are all generalities and broad concepts, and there are certainly counterpoint arguments to be made, but in the grand picture, thus far, This is Russia's position on their claim to help in Crimea.
Russia hasn't really done anything that the USA wouldn't do if found in an analogous situation have they?
Just as we claim "spheres of influence" and lines in the sand that cannot be crossed for National Security reasons (i.e. oil) The Russians have the same concerns in their sphere.
It's ironic for Kerry to have said Sunday on the morning news shows: You don't just, in the 21st century, behave in 19th century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped-up pretext,"
As a Russian would you not just spit up your coffee in laughter at that lecture from the greatest invaders of countries in recent history the US of A?
Now if they go beyond Crimea, into Ukraine proper, well that will more analogous to something like when the USA invaded Iraq. Then we will have something more to talk about.
That is my take on all the data I have been able to find. If anyone has alternative data, (Without going back to Stalin) I would like to hear facts concerning the issue.
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| 8 | Pancho Villa
ID: 2131916
Mon, Mar 03, 2014, 15:21
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I can't imagine Russia being interested in a reunification with the mess that is the Ukraine, with the exception of the Crimea. That's not to say that Putin welcomes Ukraine proper becoming another Western friendly Eastern European country ala Poland. A huge percentage of Ukranians consider themselves Russian. Poles consider themselves Poles. The conflict of nationality is very complicated in the Ukraine.
As for Soros, I would agree that Any discussion that does not include Soros' involvement is missing half the story. However, in the attempt to paint Soros' involvement(as well as in Georgia)as some sort of nefarious and evil conspiracy by claiming Those are his forces organizing things on that side, not the least of which is that whore, John McCain is a complete and utter failure, simply displaying a personal bias perpetrated by the likes of the clownish Glenn Beck.
If one is looking for nefarious conspiracies, perhaps one should examine Soros role as an adviser to Yulia Tymoshenko, a leader of the Pro-democracy Orange Revolution who would become Prime Minister. According to the
European Human Rights Court,
Ukraine's imprisonment of the former prime minister Yulia Tymoshenko was a politically motivated violation of her rights...
the prosecution of Mrs Tymoshenko in Ukraine had nothing to do with the law, had nothing to do with democratic standards, had nothing to do with a criminal prosecution
Tymoshenko counsels with Soros concerning the democratic process and moving forward economically, ends up a political prisoner, and Soros is the villain? Boldwin is right. The story is incomplete. Depicting John McCain as a whore hardly completes it.
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| 9 | Boldwin
ID: 25221420
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 07:28
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PV
I see. You admit Soros organized the Orange Revolution but it's bug-eyed lunacy to point out that he's only remaining true to form in the Ukraine.
Soros has trained the next crop of political players there and it's not even debatable, let alone a conspiracy theory.
Soros makes his billions by destabilizing economies and cashing in on his inside knowledge of what is going to happen.
You all can believe PV when he waves his arms and tells you there is nothing to see here if you wish.
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A republican who is in large part funded by the Tides foundation and Soros is a whore. There are no two ways to look at it. How could he betray his party worse than that? Who would he have to be in the pocket of?
To pretend it's unrelated that McCain just happens to be the leading warhawk on the Ukraine situation is being willfully obtuse to put it mildly.
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| 10 | Pancho Villa
ID: 2131916
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 07:47
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Soros makes his billions by destabilizing economies and cashing in on his inside knowledge of what is going to happen.
You really need to catch up. Either that or provide some facts to support your claim. Keep in mind that you use the present tense makes, so don't bother with 20 year old incidents. Give us an example of an economy Soros is currently destabilizing and please be specific as to how it's being accomplished. It should be easy, as Soros is hardly secretive about his current activities; indeed, he seeks media attention to promote them all the time.
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| 11 | Boldwin
ID: 5621257
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 08:14
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It's the guy's modus operandi. Always has been. It's not debatable.
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| 12 | Boldwin
ID: 5621257
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 08:28
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Listen to George as he salivates over the USA currency losing it's reserve currency status. The crash starts there. Maybe the world war too.
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| 13 | Pancho Villa
ID: 2131916
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 09:26
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It's not debatable.
I suppose in lieu of the facts I requested, that's the best you could do.
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| 14 | Perm Dude
ID: 431013412
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 09:57
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"Soros' Law" is the new Godwin's Law, PV.
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| 15 | Pancho Villa
ID: 2131916
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 10:01
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It's funny that Boldwin posts a link to Before It's News, since they were instrumental in making up this Soros' myth.
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| 16 | Boldwin
ID: 5621257
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 13:10
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I think it's funny that the source is questioned when it's a video of Soros himself talking.
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| 17 | Boldwin
ID: 5621257
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 13:12
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Otherwise you would have believed Soros actually held those views. But since the long video was found on Beforeitsnews obviously we can discount his words.
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| 18 | Boldwin
ID: 5621257
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 13:24
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His words weren't fed to us by a trusted gatekeeper, doncha know!
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| 19 | Perm Dude
ID: 431013412
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 16:46
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The Right's new hero:
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| 20 | Pancho Villa
ID: 2131916
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 21:47
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But since the long video was found on Beforeitsnews obviously we can discount his words.
Why? Because you read something nefarious into the script? Before It's News big scoop is that Soros talks about a “managed decline” of the U.S. dollar.
You are aware that most of your fellow paranoid Soros haters have been trying to convince the rest of us that the dollar is worthless because it isn't backed by anything, so buy gold, and I'll take my commission, thank you. It's much more harsh than a managed decline. Besides, the interview is simply a distraction from your assignment, which was/is to ratlle off a few countries where Soros has recently destabilized the economy.
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| 21 | Boldwin
ID: 5621257
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 03:34
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After the crash go back and listen to Soros' fatuous reasoning on why losing reserve currency status would be beneficial. That man can barely contain the smile. Like he just ate a canary. And he's looking right at you.
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