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Subject: JW's making the same mistake as Catholic Church
Posted by: Perm Dude
- [431013412] Mon, Feb 16, 2015, 12:02
This isn't going to end well |
| 1 | Boldwin
ID: 510591420
Mon, Feb 16, 2015, 14:04
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I can tell you that for as long as I can remember, people have been told explicitly that we were free to seek prosecution in worldly courts for that crime. Some may well settle for divorce and having the perp disfellowshipped and not taking it public.
I know of two 'cases' and possibly three.
Case one. In one child protective services managed to temporarily convince a girl to 'remember' hidden memories of abuse. She now no longer claims to remember these 'memories' and never did have any confidence in them. The wife will never have her doubts answered. The marriage is over. The husband was kicked out of our religion. The husband's life is over.
I 100% believe he is innocent. Not that it does him any good.
The authorities were involved, to everyone's detriment.
They lost their marriage for no good reason.
Case 2: A girl, a bad seed, child of a woman who left her husband and our religion...decided that on her 16th birthday when she was no longer jailbait, that she would rape the guy. Her step-mother actually discovered her facebook where she discussed with her worldly girlfriend whether it could be done and how it could be done. Completely unexpected, from out of the blue, on a work break from her shift, she started blowing him.
Outcome: Tho the boy went himself repentent and disturbed to the elders about the situation when they were yet unaware of it, the boy was kicked out of our religion. He married her. She ended up cheating on him. Marriage over, tho he would have forgiven her.
Not sure where the benefit was in falsely accusing him of child abuse. All it did was further shake her confidence in their judgement.
Absolutely no one can accuse them of going easy on the boy.
Last case. Yeah, I suspect a case. He was shoved out of our religion tho without an official disfellowshipping...insufficient evidence. He certainly wasn't allowed a second chance to get near her. It's just a suspicion.
Bottom line:
1) We aren't prohibited from taking it to authorities. Tho we aren't eager to air our dirty laundry either.
2) It's not as simple as accepting at face value every accusation. I have yet to see a legitimate case go unresolved. These situations are surely out there. In every group of people. No legal system is perfect. They don't all get resolved timely and perfectly.
3) Don't take at face value every general across-the-board accusation of every anti-religion crusader with an agenda even if he's stumbled across a genuine situation.
4) We do not have a situation where unscriptural celibate demands on a cleric class lead to unnatural pressures to do unspeakable things. So no, our situation does not mirror PD's situation.
We have absolutely zero cases of shifting perps from one congregation to another just ahead of the law, as we frequently see in the case of PD's pot which is herein calling the kettle black.
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| 7 | Pancho Villa
ID: 2131916
Mon, Feb 16, 2015, 16:13
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Don't take at face value every general across-the-board accusation of every anti-religion crusader with an agenda even if he's stumbled across a genuine situation.
OK, alright if I take at face value the explicit documentation that systematic malfeasance is a stated policy of the institution's leadership?
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| 8 | Perm Dude
ID: 431013412
Mon, Feb 16, 2015, 16:17
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No. That makes you complicit, PV.
We particularly want to avoid talking about any "genuine situation" as this might confuse people.
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| 9 | Boldwin
ID: 510591420
Mon, Feb 16, 2015, 17:58
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I'll tell you about a genuine situation.
You don't easily go from door to door. You have to genuinely believe it is worth doing and that God will reward you for your efforts.
This does a magnificent job of weeding out the phony christian.
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| 11 | Perm Dude
ID: 431013412
Mon, Feb 16, 2015, 22:20
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The proper first response on something like the Kendrick case is to admit that something went horribly wrong. It isn't to repeat the same mistakes that the Catholic Church did (like pointing out all the work that nuns do when faced with accusations of child sexual abuse).
Next, we'll be hearing about how this is all the "liberals" fault (ala Santorum).
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| 12 | sarge33rd
ID: 390471112
Mon, Feb 16, 2015, 23:36
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You have to genuinely believe it is worth doing and that God will reward you for your efforts.
Then your faith is false. If you do it because you believe you will be rewarded, you do it for selfish reasons.
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| 13 | Seattle Zen
ID: 301361318
Wed, Feb 18, 2015, 17:41
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PBS Newshour piece on these lawsuits
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| 14 | Boldwin
ID: 101311815
Wed, Feb 18, 2015, 21:51
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Then your faith is false. If you do it because you believe you will be rewarded, you do it for selfish reasons.
If you are motivated by selfish gain, you will find and fall for easy immediate gratification instead of doing the grinding work of going door to door for year after year, decade after decade.
The flip side of that is that it is virtually impossible to imagine someone rationalizing that God will overlook that crime against children. They will simply be unable to motivate themselves out the door into the ministry for a God who intends to execute them.
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| 15 | sarge33rd
ID: 390471112
Wed, Feb 18, 2015, 23:46
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Again, I quote your exact words'
You have to genuinely believe it is worth doing and that God will reward you for your efforts.
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| 16 | Bean
ID: 14147911
Wed, Feb 18, 2015, 23:51
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<16> Next you'll debunk the virgin paradox
She said she was a virgin, she had to be because virgin's dont lie.
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| 17 | biliruben
ID: 28420307
Thu, Feb 19, 2015, 02:33
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Man. Why you dissing Mary?
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| 18 | Mith
ID: 8018814
Thu, Feb 19, 2015, 06:55
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What strikes me is that this is a far more egregious example of religious law circumventing our judicial system than ever occurs in Muslim communities in the US, exaggerations of which have prompted hysterical rantings about creeping Sharia Law, including from our own supporter of circumventing our official authorities in favor of his personal religious law (or as he calls it, preferring to not air his laundry).
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| 19 | Boldwin
ID: 101311815
Thu, Feb 19, 2015, 13:58
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Never heard of honor killing?
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| 20 | biliruben
ID: 105572020
Thu, Feb 19, 2015, 14:07
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I didn't know JWs were so extreme!
Hey, if you are going to murder child-moldsters (and accept the consequences in the eyes of your countrymen), I'll have to rethink the badassity of JWs.
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| 21 | Boldwin
ID: 101311815
Thu, Feb 19, 2015, 14:38
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Do you actually think you are funny or are you consciously smearing us with this smoke?
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| 22 | biliruben
ID: 105572020
Thu, Feb 19, 2015, 15:45
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Maybe its not funny because I hit a bit too close to home.
Gods government is bullshit.
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| 23 | Perm Dude
ID: 431013412
Thu, Feb 19, 2015, 15:51
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Don't get between a Christianist and his self-righteousness, bili.
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| 24 | Boldwin
ID: 101311815
Thu, Feb 19, 2015, 16:54
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You are aware that christianist is an actual word with an actual definition which is exactly opposite of who I am, aren't you, PD?
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| 25 | biliruben
ID: 105572020
Thu, Feb 19, 2015, 17:13
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Maybe who you are and who wish to be are two different things. Which, though most are quick to scream hypocrite, I actually find admirable. Admit you moral failings and your desire to improve.
That said, you don't get to define who others currently see you.
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