Forum: gen
Page 1133
Subject: Season 5 Draft Discussion

  Posted by: Mattinglyinthehall - [553121722] Tue, Apr 19, 2005, 23:20
Rnk   Season I Total   Season II Total   Season III Total   Season IV Total   Last 5 Weeks
1   1086 Brock Lesnar   1082 Chris Benoit   963 Chris Benoit   1248 Rey Mysterio   271 Batista
2   1009 Triple H   1070 Randy Orton   841 Randy Orton   1221 Batista   207 Rey Mysterio
3   877 Eddie Guerrero   988 Eddie Guerrero   790 John Cena   1198 Triple H   183 Bradshaw
4   871 Chris Jericho   965 Rob Van Dam   784 Edge   1099 Kurt Angle   182 Kurt Angle
5   869 Charlie Haas   912 Brock Lesnar   655 Triple H   1066 Chris Benoit   179 Eddie Guerrero
6   857 Shelton Benjamin   893 Goldberg   620 Booker T   1048 Randy Orton   172 Chris Benoit
7   823 Booker T   875 John Cena   598 Chris Jericho   1006 Shelton Benjamin   171 John Cena
8   817 Kurt Angle   861 Big Show   597 Kane   993 Eddie Guerrero   162 Triple H
9   807 Chris Benoit   854 Chris Jericho   590 Batista   984 Edge   156 Shelton Benjamin
10   786 Rob Van Dam   793 Rey Misterio   559 Bradshaw   954 Bradshaw   153 Edge
11   734 Kane   793 Ric Flair   534 Rey Mysterio   949 Chris Jericho   127 Shawn Michaels
12   693 Rey Mysterio   774 Batista   529 D'Von Dudley   942 John Cena   126 Kane
13   655 Big Show   727 Booker T   514 Bubba Dudley   813 Booker T   117 Booker T
14   655 Scott Steiner   675 Shawn Michaels   513 Ric Flair   713 Ric Flair   113 Christian
15   654 John Cena   630 Triple H   459 Eddie Guerrero   652 Shawn Michaels   111 Chris Jericho
16   635 Ric Flair   621 Chavo Guerrero   453 Rob Conway   630 Big Show   110 Paul London
17   603 Christian   574 Christian   437 Eugene Dinsmore   629 Trish Stratus   97 Randy Orton
18   603 Eric Bischoff   574 Kane   435 Spike Dudley   615 Rob Van Dam   82 Doug Basham
19   599 Undertaker   573 Kurt Angle   430 Sylvan Granier   604 Christian   82 Danny Basham
20   536 Randy Orton   567 Mark Henry   429 Rob Van Dam   576 Maven   81 Big Show
21   535 Matt Hardy V1   557 Danny Basham   424 Chavo Guerrero   574 Orlando Jordan   79 Akebono
22   533 Test   528 Bubba Ray Dudley   396 Renee Dupree   538 Kane   75 Trish Stratus
23   528 Goldberg   521 Tajiri   361 Charlie Haas   538 Luther Reigns   74 Tyson Tomko
24   516 Bubba Ray Dudley   518 Bradshaw   357 Victoria   529 Undertaker   72 Ric Flair
25   506 Trish Stratrus   512 Doug Basham   356 Shelton Benjamin   527 Gene Snitsky   69 Tajiri
26   442 Torrie Wilson   510 Trish Stratus   327 Trish Stratus   487 William Regal   68 Christy
27   440 Shawn Michaels   508 Molly Holly   304 Lita   472 Doug Basham   67 Luther Reigns
28   435 A-Train   500 D'Von Dudley   295 Kurt Angle   468 Sylvan Granier   64 William Regal
29   430 Renee Dupree   478 Lita   293 Undertaker   459 Mark Jindrak   59 Undertaker
30   426 D'Von Dudley   414 Rikishi   290 Tajiri   439 Rob Conway   54 Muhammed Hassan
31   425 Sylvain Grenier   413 A-Train   282 Matt Hardy   434 Eugene Dinsmore   52 Orlando Jordan
32   393 Morley/Venus   413 Scott Steiner   281 Luther Reigns   434 Tyson Tomko   50 Carlito Cool
33   390 Hurricane   407 Shelton Benjamin   279 Rhyno   431 Danny Basham   50 Billy Kidman
34   390 Jazz   395 Gail Kim   253 Chavo Classic   401 Renee Dupree   44 Rob Conway
35   385 Lance Strom   362 Jamie Noble   249 Shawn Michaels   386 Kenzo Suzuki   43 Theodore Long
36   383 Steve Austin   355 Victoria Farn   249 Gail Kim   364 Funaki   42 Marty Jannetty
37   374 Rhyno   351 Hardcore Holly   233 Paul London   357 Carlito Cool   40 Dawn Marie
38   368 Vince McMahon   347 Renee Dupree   221 Tyson Tomko   342 Spike Dudley   37 Khosrow Daivari
39   363 Rodney Mack   344 Matt Hardy   214 Torrie Wilson   339 Tajiri   36 Eric Bischoff
40   362 Victoria   338 Eric Bischoff   213 Molly Holly   335 Paul London   34 Maven
41   361 Tajiri   325 Garrison Cade   209 Billy Kidman   315 John Heidenreich   34 Sylvan Granier
42   356 Kevin Nash   323 Scotty 2 Hotty   208 Rico   309 Billy Kidman   31 Gene Snitsky
43   332 Rock   309 Charlie Haas   198 Coach   297 Lita   31 Lita
44   297 Nunzio   303 Rob Conway   179 Kenzo Suzuki   292 Muhammed Hassan   30 Mark Jindrak
45   283 Rosey   293 Mark Jindrak   164 William Regal   285 Chavo Guerrero   28 Chavo Guerrero
46   280 Rikishi   285 Test   159 Eric Bischoff   279 Eric Bischoff   25 Michelle McCool
47   273 Chavo Guerrero   282 Vince McMahon   158 Hurricane   273 Charlie Haas   21 Akio
48   272 Spanky   272 Rhyno   155 Garrison Cade   271 Theodore Long   20 Renee Dupree
49   268 Jeff Hardy   271 Hurricane   151 Nidia   269 Christy   20 Spike Dudley
50   267 Shannon Moore   269 Steve Austin   139 Christian   235 Coach   20 John Heidenreich
51   263 Goldust   259 Paul Heyman   131 Stacey Keibler   234 Molly Holly   20 Scotty2Hotty
52   263 Rico   254 Undertaker   123 Scotty 2 Hotty   229 Victoria   20 Mike Haywood
53   262 Johnny Stamboli   248 Matt Morgan   121 Johnny Stamboli   223 Nunzio   19 Nunzio
54   259 Chuck Palumbo   246 Coach   119 Jamie Noble   212 Rhyno   18 Funaki
55   250 Hulk Hogan   230 Shannon Moore   114 Billy Gunn   208 Stacy Keibler   17 Simon Dean
56   244 Stephanie McMahon   226 Farooq   111 Rosie   207 Hurricane   17 Jerry Lawler
57   242 Stacy Kiebler   216 Mick Foley   108 Nunzio   207 Dawn Marie   17 Bob Orton
58   240 Billy Kidman   215 Nunzio   101 Mordechi   198 Simon Dean   15 Rosey
59   224 Nidia   196 Lance Storm   99 Theodore Long   198 Torrie   15 Jim Ross
60   219 Jamie Noble   184 Jerry Lawler   98 Sable   157 Daniel Puder   15 Michael Cole
61   218 Maven   183 Akio   97 Jacqueline   154 Miss Jackie   15 Tazz
62   213 Molly Holly   182 Jim Ross   91 Dawn Marie   153 D'Von Dudley   15 Steve Austin
63   200 Sable   180 Rosey   90 Mick Foley   152 Bubba Dudley   14 Torrie
64   191 William Regal   178 Shane McMahon   89 Jazz   139 Josh Matthews   13 Josh Matthews
65   190 Batista   173 Stacey Keibler   85 Big Show   138 Hardcore Holly   12 Charlie Haas
66   187 Zach Gowan   169 Maven   85 Johnny Nitro   137 Jerry Lawler   12 Molly Holly
67   180 Sean O'Haire   162 Ultimo Dragon   82 Danny Basham   131 Viscera   12 Hardcore Holly
68   174 Billy Gunn   162 Val Venis   82 Doug Basham   129 Khosrow Daivari   12 Joy Giovanni
69   173 Steven Richards   159 Billy Kidman   81 Hardcore Holly   129 Nidia   10 Eugene Dinsmore
70   167 Chris Nowinski   157 Spike Dudley   80 Miss Jackie   126 Akio   10 Miss Jackie
71   167 Gail Kim   153 Shaniqua   77 Orlando Jordan   121 Joy Giovanni   10 Lauren
72   165 Jamal   143 Nathan Jones   76 Akio   116 Rosey   10 Lillian Garcia
73   154 Jerry Lawler   142 Rico   76 Funaki   112 Shannon Moore   10 Hulk Hogan
74   151 Dan Basham   138 Sakoda   72 Jerry Lawler   111 Jesus   10 Roddy Piper
75   131 Spike Dudley   136 Steven Richards   70 Paul Heyman   110 Michelle McCool   9 Coach
76   128 Bradshaw   134 Teddy Long   69 Val Venis   110 Gail Kim   9 Stacy Keibler
77   127 Paul Heyman   131 Nidia   62 Jim Ross   108 Jim Ross   5 Viscera
78   126 Doug Basham   126 Sable   57 Stevie Richards   108 Michael Cole   5 Chris Masters
79   126 Shane McMahon   121 Palumbo   56 Maven   95 Amy Weber   5 Sensational Sherri
80   122 Teddy Long   114 Billy Gunn   55 Mark Jindrak   90 Rico   5 Jake The Snake
81   115 Roddy Piper   113 Zach Gowan   49 Michael Cole   90 Tazz   4 Maria
82   113 D'Lo Brown   103 Johnny Stamboli   49 Tazz   84 Al Snow   2 Booker T's Wife
83   102 Bill DeMott   101 Sylvian Grenier   39 Rikishi   84 Paul Heyman   0 Rob Van Dam
84   100 Jacqueline   98 Jazz   36 Shannon Moore   84 Scotty2Hotty   0 Kenzo Suzuki
85   98 Funaki   90 Ernest Miller   32 Sakoda   84 Akebono   0 Victoria
86   98 Ron Simmons   86 Orlando Jordan   25 Paul Bearer   83 Steven Richards   0 Rhyno
87   97 Dawn Marie   85 Miss Jackie   22 Kiroko   74 Carmella   0 Hurricane
88   96 Tommy Dreamer   78 John Heidenreich   21 Josh Matthews   74 Hiroko   0 Daniel Puder
89   95 Edge   74 Stephanie McMahon   20 A-Train   67 Chris Masters   0 D'Von Dudley
90   95 Ivory   72 Al Snow   18 Rodney Mack   67 Johnny Stamboli   0 Bubba Dudley
91   85 Tazz   69 Rodney Mack   18 Chuck Palumbo   56 Vince McMahon   0 Nidia
92   77 Nathan Jones   67 Tazz   17 Lance Storm   56 Lauren   0 Shannon Moore
93   70 Ultimo Dragon   62 Michael Cole   17 Sgt Slaughter   53 Ryan Reeves   0 Jesus
94   54 Al Snow   55 Dawn Marie   15 Scott Steiner   52 Mike Mizanin   0 Gail Kim
95   54 Orlando Jordan   52 Ivory   15 Al Snow   52 Val Venis   0 Amy Weber
96   50 Coach   50 The Rock   15 Grand Master Sexay   50 Todd Grisham   0 Rico
97   46 Garrison Kade   45 Funaki   12 Charles Robinson   49 Maria   0 Al Snow
98   46 Jim Ross   40 Torrie Wilson   12 Rock   44 Rochelle   0 Paul Heyman
99   44 Jackie Gayda   39 Terri   12 Vince McMahon   42 Marty Jannetty   0 Steven Richards
100   43 Mick Foley   33 Paul London   10 Cookie Girl   34 Candice   0 Carmella
101   40 Crash Holly   32 Moolah   10 Rick Albright   30 Mae Young   0 Hiroko
102   40 Rob Conway   28 Josh Matthews   10 Chris Cage   30 Moolah   0 Johnny Stamboli
103   30 Linda McMahon   24 Linda McMahon   5 Harley Race   28 Jazz   0 Vince McMahon
104   26 Mark Jindrak   22 Tommy Dreamer   5 Enrique/Fast Eddie   27 Santa   0 Ryan Reeves
105   25 Shaniqua   19 Golddust   5 Paco the Limo Driver   20 Steve Austin   0 Mike Mizanin
106   25 Mark Henry   15 Sgt. Slaughter   5 Mike Kruel   20 Matt Stryker   0 Val Venis
107   22 Doink The Clown   12  Arch Kincaid   5 Kamala   20 Danny Gimondo   0 Todd Grisham
108   20 Conquistador #1   12 Jacquiline   5 Candice Michelle   20 Mike Haywood   0 Rochelle
109   20 Conquistador #2   12 John Walters   5 Nina Hardin   20 Roddrick Strong   0 Candice
110   19 Brooklyn Brawler   12 Mae Young   5 Midget Taker   20 Matt Martel   0 Mae Young
111   19 Bull Buchanon   11 Blonde Roulette Girl   5 Carmella DeCesare   20 Lillian Garcia   0 Moolah
112   19 TE John   11 112 Brunette Roulette Girl   4 Dr. Prichard   19 Malena   0 Jazz
113   19 TE Matt   10 Fernando the Midget   4 Limo Driver   17 Gangrel   0 Santa
114   19 Kanyon   10 Mark Cuban   2 Steve Austin   17 Bob Orton   0 Matt Stryker
115   17 Mae Young   5 Brian Kendrick     15 Chris Nawrocki   0 Danny Gimondo
116   13 Michael Cole   5 LeBron James     15 Brian Black   0 Roddrick Strong
117   12 Brother Love   5 Lilian Garcia     15 Sgt Slaughter   0 Matt Martel
118   12 Easter Bunny   5 Midget Angle     15 Sabastian McCully   0 Malena
119   12 Eric Angle   4 Fred Sampson     12 Billy Gunn   0 Gangrel
120   10 White Boy #1   2 Chuck Palombo     12 Pat Hardy   0 Chris Nawrocki
121   10 White Boy #2   2 Cousin Jose     12 Rat Hardy   0 Brian Black
122   8 Animal   2 Priest     12 Nat Hardy   0 Sgt Slaughter
123   8 Erin Stevens   2 Sean O'Haire     12 Fat Hardy   0 Sabastian McCully
124   8 Hawk       10 Hulk Hogan   0 Billy Gunn
125   8 John Walters       10 Roddy Piper   0 Pat Hardy
126   8 Sgt. Slaughter       7 Mick Foley   0 Rat Hardy
127   7 Fabulous Moolah       5 Sensational Sherri   0 Nat Hardy
128   7 Jimmy Hart       5 Jake The Snake   0 Fat Hardy
129   5 Gillberg       5 Rodney Mack   0 Mick Foley
130   5 Hot Lesbians       5 Bill Graham   0 Rodney Mack
131   5 Jimmy Snuka       5 Danny Hodge   0 Bill Graham
132   5 Lita       5 Scott Colton   0 Danny Hodge
133   5 Little Cute Puppy       2 Booker T's Wife   0 Scott Colton
134   5 Zach's Mom       2 Linda McMahon   0 Linda McMahon
135   4 Josh Matthews       2 Brian Hepner   0 Brian Hepner
136   2 Mini-Goldust        
137   -5 Raven        
 
1Species
      Leader
      ID: 07724916
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 00:20 		GO mentioned via mail he wouldn't be around until 9:00 am or so.

If I am not up by 11:00am ET tomorrow, it'll be half the day before I return to a computer.
 
2 Great One
      ID: 46361920
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 06:51 		Got 1 pick in I knew for sure.

I will be all over my other picks at work, I just need my chart to look at.

wiggs - email me there too.
 
3Bond, James Bond
      ID: 503581921
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 08:21 		Just some food for thought. In order to enhance our enjoyment of the WWE and our draft, why don't we---just like Guru does in his drafts---share some thoughts of why we drafted who we drafted? Certainly a couple 2-3 sentences of analysis is warranted and would add to the flavor of our unique league. Comments?
 
4Tree
      ID: 76471215
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 09:46 		isn't Great One up again, or am i missing something?
 
5Mike D
      Sustainer
      ID: 41831612
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 09:57 		He's up, but per post 2 said he needed to get to work to review his "charts."

Bond, we usually do have some discussion about picks, though less formalized. Also even in RIHC there is a delay due to people not wanting to reveal too much strategy too early. Delay of a few rounds.
 
6Farn
      Sustainer
      ID: 451044109
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 10:07 		analysis for 1.05 Eddie Guerrero:

In my opinion he is easily the most valuable guy left. Only one other guy entered my mind here but I won't reveal why I passed on him yet. Guerrero is set for a nice feud with Mysterio. He should have a steady stream of points from that for at least the next month.
 
7Mike D
      Sustainer
      ID: 41831612
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 10:12 		I hated not being able to keep Eddie. But I was hoping Cena would come in under him (and he did). Tough to part with Mr. Heat!
 
8Species
      Leader
      ID: 07724916
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 10:41 		Here. Will pick shortly. Gotta check my charts. ;-)
 
9Farn
      Sustainer
      ID: 451044109
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 10:41 		if anyone wants Trish I might be willing to trade her for a #1 depending on who's left on the board.
 
10Bond,JamesBond@wk.
      ID: 8332011
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 13:17 		Egads! Picked up Regal with the first pick in the second slot. Hopefully he and Tajiri will stay as tag-team champs for a long, long, long reign! ;)

Had been planning on picking up an injured RVD but Wiggs grabbed him before I could.

Paul London went a lot higher than I anticipated. Was hoping to grab him with my second #2 pick. Tree surprised me there.
 
11kev
      Donor
      ID: 43111845
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 13:21 		Trade announcement

kev trades
Batista
4th round pick

to Great One
for
Chris Masters
Kurt Angle

GO has emailed me this, so you can basically confirm it.

Analysis of pick
I took Batista knowing I would be trading him. With UT/Kenzo being hurt, I felt I needed 2 solid scorers instead of just one in the first round. Masters might not appear on TV every week, but he is getting pushed. With a physique that VKM always seems to like, I expect Masters to continue to show up on TV- much more than my 4th round pick would. I basically end up trading Great One's pick back to him for my pick, and gain Masters as well.

anyone want to take a quick que? I am up after Tree's 2 picks.
 
12Tree
      ID: 76471215
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 13:21 		i'm a big Paul London mark, and have been since i watched him do some amazing things in Ring of Honor.

to me, London has major breakout potential. he is a little guy, but he's got Shawn Michael level Charisma if given a push and a chance to shine.
 
13Bond,JamesBond@wk.
      ID: 8332011
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 13:25 		I whole-heartedly agree with you Tree. As long as he can stay healthy, I think he'll have quite a long career with WWE. That is, unless McMahon decides to give up on the Cruiserweights...again.
 
14kev
      Donor
      ID: 43111845
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 13:31 		Sent a quick que to wiggs. I'm leaving in about 5 minutes- if Tree picks, I will, or Wiggs has my que.
 
15Bond,JamesBond@wk.
      ID: 8332011
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 13:33 		I may not be back until late tonight. Am looking to trade my next pick. Anybody interested?
 
16Tree
      ID: 76471215
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 13:34 		i'm doing some last minute wheeling and dealing.

and i have a trade to confirm for GO, once it's been announced by the other person in the trade...
 
17Tree
      ID: 76471215
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 13:47 		Trade Announcements
(this is technically a confirmation from Great One, but Kev has yet to post it)

Kev trades Batista and and his 4th round pick (pick 34)
to
Great One for Kurt Angle and Chris Masters

----------------------

Great One trades Joey Mercury Matthews and a 4th round pick (pick 34), plus his third round pick from the next draft
to
Tree for Tree's 2nd (pick 13) and 3rd (pick 23) round picks, plus his fourth round pick from the next draft
 
18Bond,JamesBond@wk.
      ID: 8332011
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 13:48 		Holy Cow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
19wiggs
      ID: 463192012
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 14:26 		I love how i tried to trade angle all last season and no one would touch him because he is "injury prone" but as soon as someone else gets him he is traded, and not only traded, but for Batista.
 
20Tree
      ID: 76471215
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 14:33 		well, he proved himself.
 
21Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 428299
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 14:41 		I'll agree with that. I wouldn't have touched Angle before about Week 25 of Season IV. He's definitely still injury prone, but he keeps going.

I have no idea who you were trying to trade Angle for, but I'll point out that if you didn't have him on your roster for his late-season surge, you might not have won Season 4, so I have trouble seeing that from any perspective other than you getting over, Wiggs.
 
22wiggs
      ID: 183442012
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 14:44 		I am not going to point out any specific trades, but lets just say I would have still held on to win.
 
23wiggs
      ID: 183442012
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 14:46 		Tree, he has proved himself that much since the trade deadline? What a joke
 
24Tree
      ID: 76471215
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 15:03 		you're acting like there was some kind of conspiracy against you. has winning two seasons in a row made you that paranoid?
 
25wiggs
      ID: 20342013
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 15:05 		actually 3 seasons, and no I am not paranoid, I am annoyed that people wont trade with me because I have been winning.
 
26Farn
      Sustainer
      ID: 451044109
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 15:05 		anybody want this pick from me?
 
27Tree
      ID: 76471215
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 15:14 		Wiggs - maybe no one wanted Angle then, or didn't like the deal that was being offered.

i would gladly have traded you Simon Dean for Kurt Angle, but you never offered the deal, and you don't see me being pissed off about it.
 
28wiggs
      ID: 20342013
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 15:16 		Tree take it easy. Obviously that is a ridiculous trade. I never said I was pissed off, I said I was annoyed. If you say you wouldnt be you are kidding yourself or lying
 
29Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 428299
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 15:22 		Well I'd certainly be over it by now. Especially if I was the reigning 3-time champ.

Please, Wiggs, if you have an issue with someone who turned down your Angle offer at the trade deadline, I'm sure I'm not alone in saying that I really wish you'd take it up with him or them personally rather than post these public comments. Believe me, your complaining about it now isn't going to make anyone want to deal with you any more.

About half the league will attest that I was highly active in the final weeks in trying to land a trade that would put me over. In my opinion, I had more than one team turn down offers that could have put them in a better position going into the draft. But thems the breaks. Sure its a little frustrating but jeez get over it. You're the reigning 3-time champ.
 
30Tree
      ID: 76471215
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 15:26 		Obviously that is a ridiculous trade.

exactly. but that's your opinion. my opinion is that it's sacrificing the future for the present, by giving up Simon Dean for a guy who could shatter his neck at any given moment.

last year, in one of my baseball keeper leagues, i swapped Jeff Kent for Luis Castillo and Carl Crawford. i thought i pulled off a steal, and other people thought that i clinched last place for myself.

just because you thought a trade was fair doesn't mean your potential trading partner did.
 
31Farn
      Sustainer
      ID: 451044109
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 15:26 		If Antonio is owned by somebody else under a different name let me know.
 
32wiggs
      Donor
      ID: 04991311
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 16:24 		MITH, I never said I was complaining. I didnt realize I wasnt allowed to make a comment about the way a draft goes down. I am starting to get sick of all the BS i catch from you every time I open my mouth about something in this league.
 
33Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 428299
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 16:31 		MITH, I never said I was complaining.
You're saying post 19 isn't complaining? Then what is it? Whining? Bitching?

I didnt realize I wasnt allowed to make a comment about the way a draft goes down.
You're allowed to do whatever the rules allow you to do. I simply asked you (respectfully enough, I think) to keep your personal matters personal and not air them out in public. My simple request is not the law.

I am starting to get sick of all the BS i catch from you every time I open my mouth about something in this league.
Fair enough. I'm sick of the the guy who has dominated this league for 3 seasons constantly whining about being treated unfairly. So I guess we're even.
 
34wiggs
      Donor
      ID: 04991311
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 16:50 		19, is a comment. I dont see where you got bitching or whining out of that. Did I say anywhere that it was a bad trade. It was simply a comment.


You're allowed to do whatever the rules allow you to do. I simply asked you (respectfully enough, I think) to keep your personal matters personal and not air them out in public. My simple request is not the law

Personal Matters? Isnt this a fantasy league? Arent we supposed to make comments about how things are going? It isnt like I asked a personal question.


Fair enough. I'm sick of the the guy who has dominated this league for 3 seasons constantly whining about being treated unfairly. So I guess we're even

Are you saying that this league isnt designed to keep the top teams from winning every year? You know as well as I do that teams that finish poorly in this league are rewarded while teams that play out the season are not. Therefore since I have won the last three seasons I do feel like alot of rules are going against me.
 
35Tree
      ID: 76471215
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 17:05 		sorry Wiggs, but it comes off as real mega sour-f*cking grapes when you win 3 times out of 5 (or whatever), and you whine about a trade not happening.

you have dominated this league, and you've done it through a little bit of luck and a LOT of great managerial skills. but you're still gonna sit here and complain? it's annoying as piss to those of us that stick it out despite being lucky if we can manage to make it out of the bottom three.
 
36Species
      Leader
      ID: 07724916
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 18:14 		Round 2 queue sent to Farn and Tree.
 
37Bond, James Bond
      ID: 503581921
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 19:14 		Ahhhhhhhhhhh the fresh aroma of verbal jabbing!!! ;)

I took Simon Dean with my second #2 pick. I don't know a lot about this guy so maybe someone here can help me out. From what I've seen, his "schtick" is extremely annoying. Just what you want in a heel. But as a wrestler, I'm still not sold on the guy. Apparently he wrestled as "Nova" in OVW, right? Was he any good there and does he have the skills to be a prime-time player within the next couple of years or so?
 
38Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 553121722
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 19:24 		Post 19 is complaining. Its also whining. And bitching. I assume that you don't really "love" it that you couldn't trade Angle and then just watched him go during the draft. So what you really mean is that it annoys you, as you explicitly clarified in post 25, and as you further expressed in post 23. When you express that you are unhappy about something, that's called complaining. When it gets excessive (like this particular issue is with you), its bitching and whining.
com·plain
Pronunciation: k&m-'plAn
Function: intransitive verb
Etymology: Middle English compleynen, from Middle French complaindre, from (assumed) Vulgar Latin complangere, from Latin com- + plangere to lament -- more at PLAINT
1 : to express grief, pain, or discontent
2 : to make a formal accusation or charge
Now that that's cleared up;

Personal Matters? Isnt this a fantasy league? Arent we supposed to make comments about how things are going? It isnt like I asked a personal question.

The reason that I said anything at all is that whenever people air out their private dealings with other managers (or part of them) in public it tends to get ugly - as this discussion usually does every time you start it (and there have been more than enough of those times). So I requested that you keep it between those managers and yourself.

Are you saying that this league isnt designed to keep the top teams from winning every year?

Uhh, no. I have no idea where you got that one (probably the same place that tells you that post 19 isn't a complaint). What I am saying is that I'm tired of hearing you bitch and whine all the time about how you are treated unfairly.

Regardless, like I said, I'm not telling you what to do or not do. I'm not the boss of you and you responded to tell me that you're not interested in my request and that you're tired of my 'having something to say' (read: complaining) about you when you complain. So be it. All I did was ask that you keep private negotiations (and any bad feelings that result from them) private. I feel that I was polite enough about it. Hopefully we now understand each other.
 
39wiggs
      ID: 540421611
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 19:45 		You know what MITH, I am done, as in out of the league. Not interested anymore. You want me to give a definition for that?
 
40Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 553121722
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 20:16 		Are you really going to do that? Pull a Blue Hen on us? Are you going to at least give us the courtesy of sticking around to finish the draft?
 
41Tree
      ID: 212401018
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 20:47 		you have *got* to be kidding me...
 
42Farn
      Sustainer
      ID: 451044109
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 20:51 		lets be rational here.

wiggs, i know for a fact you love this league. I suspect you are probably like me in thinking this is the best league you are in. I know i love this league more than others. Let's not jump overboard because you are angry.

We all understand your point. This league is structured to benefit teams that struggle the year before. Its meant to create parity. You have defied all logic in winning 3 straight. Most of that is based on amazing managerial skill. Sprinkle in a bit of luck and you have dominated for 3 years. Finally the league structure and rules have caught up with you. But don't get upset to the point of quitting a league you love. Grind it out, join me and and kev at the bottom of the league, and fight to get back to the top.
 
43Mike D
      Sustainer
      ID: 041831612
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 21:54 		I'm here now dudes. I can't believe the spat that is in this thread. Though one thing that IS cool about it-----that wiggs feels comfortable enough to say what he did in post 19! Man, we often think stuff like that, but don't usually type it in most leagues. Someone tell wiggs his inner monologue isn't working anymore (a la one Austin "danger" Powers).

Have to get up to speed and will look to pick.
 
44Species
      Leader
      ID: 07724916
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 21:55 		I think both sides didn't act very appropriately here.

Yeah, I think wiggs complains a bit once in a while, and damn right there could be people in the league that are jealous that you've stomped our asses for 3 years, but I don't believe people have purposely avoided doing any deal with you, or (not that you imply this) colluded against you. I can see the side of this that feels it's a bit whiney.

MITH, I think you could apologize for post 38. You guys had your say, made your points and you could have left it at that. But post 38 from my view is just harping on it a bit too much and really throwing it in wiggs face. Just pointing out so much before then was making your point sufficiently. But that's just my opinion.
 
45wiggs
      ID: 540421611
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 22:27 		Farn post 42 We all understand your point. This league is structured to benefit teams that struggle the year before. Its meant to create parity.

Exactly my point, isnt the whole point in parity to allow the bottem teams to catch up? If that is the case the top teams will need to be brought back down, but yet MITH still argues that this is not true.
 
46Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 553121722
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 22:42 		MITH still argues that this is not true.

Wiggs, as I indicated in post 38, this is not an argument that I have made and I don't know where you got that idea or what it has to do with the discussion.
 
47Farn
      Sustainer
      ID: 451044109
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 22:51 		MITH, who's Jillian Hall?

If you can't say yet cause of drafting strategy that's fine.
 
48Mike D
      Sustainer
      ID: 041831612
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 22:56 		You don't wanna know. Gross schtick. ;)
 
49Farn
      Sustainer
      ID: 451044109
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 22:59 		nevermind then, I know who it is.
 
50Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 553121722
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 23:01 		OVW talent. I don't think she's been rumored for a callup in the past but there have been a bunch of blurbs about her recently.

PWInsider
As we mentioned yesterday, WWE will be bringing up new characters from OVW in the coming weeks. One of them will be Jillian Hall, who will have an obvious, "big hairy mole" on her face. Yep, that is what creative came up with for her. She is already booked on upcoming house shows after the European tour.

I also read that she'll likely be brought up as a heel and start teaming with Trish.
 
51Tree
      ID: 212401018
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 23:03 		i simply refuse to draft someone who's gimmick is "big hairy mole"...
 
52Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 553121722
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 23:05 		I'm hitting the sack. Anyone want my q?
 
53 Farn
      Sustainer
      ID: 451044109
      Wed, Apr 20, 2005, 23:06 		you can send it to me.
 
54kev
      Donor
      ID: 43111845
      Thu, Apr 21, 2005, 00:52 		wiggs- I hope you don't leave the league. I have had a fun time with you in it.

As for the Batista/Angle trade- I don't see how I end up on the losing end of it. Am I trading the top scorer- probably- I did the same last season, and 2 seasons ago. Why should I stop now? What I have figured out in this league is having 3 scorers- weather they be top scorers or not- is not going to win you anything, or improve your team. My keepers were Keibler/Christy/UT/Reigns. UT has a hip injury, and could miss quote "significant time". What is a team of Batista/Reigns/Keibler/Christy/Lita going to do? Not a whole lot. A team of Angle/Masters/Reigns/Lita/Christy is going to do more damage.

Look at it this way- with his push, Masters was probably a mid 2nd rounder if he wasn't a keeper. I dropped 3 spots in the draft, and gained a second round pick instead of some guy I would drop on the waiver wire in round 4.

Now, if UT does miss significant time, I can throw out 5 wrestlers who will see airtime most of the time.

Kurt Angle also rumored being moved to RAW seems like a nice reason to make the trade. New feuds, and RAW superstars always seem to outscore SD guys.

Is that enough evidence to convince people I didn't get screwed? I really don't see how this is a bad deal.
 
55wiggs
      Donor
      ID: 04991311
      Thu, Apr 21, 2005, 07:50 		Kev, I am not saying you got screwed at all. I dont want you to feel that I was. I think you did alright in the trade though I think GO might have been willing to give you more. Please dont take what I said as a personal attack on you because it was in no way meant to come out like that.
 
56Great One
      ID: 46361920
      Thu, Apr 21, 2005, 07:50 		I don't think anyone thinks you got screwed. Its a very balanced trade as Angle and Batista will score similarly and Masters is a solid addition with great potential.

What is questioned is how Angle's value has gone from stud - to anyone scared to even touch him - to being a stud again. But I think we all agree that has actually occured somehow. I think a BIG part of it are the stupid Angle Invitationals... he scores singles winning points every week for 30 seconds of work and essentially can rest his neck for the PPV's or whatever. This recent change has made him a bit safer and altered his value greatly.

And you only really need him to be healthy for 5 months anyway - as he will clearly be your leading scorer and then you are done with him. His high scoring will offer plenty of room underneath to acquire people you will actually be able to keep.

And Wiggs - nobody wants you to go anywhere.
 
57Great One
      ID: 46361920
      Thu, Apr 21, 2005, 07:51 		and I will email someone my pick at work for 3.3... gotta see who is left.

Jillian Hall - now THAT is a gimmick.

MITH has the stutterer and a hairy mole!!
 
58Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 553121722
      Thu, Apr 21, 2005, 08:03 		They should be a mixed tag team. Maybe Vince could find a diva with a hairlip to team up with Eugene to take them on.
 
59Mike D
      Sustainer
      ID: 41831612
      Thu, Apr 21, 2005, 11:52 		So we're waiting on kev I take it?
 
60Species
      Leader
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, Apr 21, 2005, 12:20 		Yeah....damn Canadians. Get moving kev.

(he IS Canadian, right? Not that there's anything wrong with that)
 
61j o s h
      ID: 30344219
      Thu, Apr 21, 2005, 12:29 		he is.. and a little slow too, even for a Canadian ;-)
 
62Mike D
      Sustainer
      ID: 41831612
      Thu, Apr 21, 2005, 12:38 		That sounds like a new wrestler: "The Slow Canadian." Kind of Eugene-like. ;)
 
63Species
      Leader
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, Apr 21, 2005, 12:43 		Keep your nose out of our thread, j o s h - or me and Bernard are gonna come lay the smackdown upon you and Justin ;-)
 
64Species
      Leader
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, Apr 21, 2005, 12:55 		1.07 Shawn Michaels

I've never really understood Michaels' popularity. While true he is an outstanding worker in the ring, why he generates such a pop is beyond me. I've never been a big fan, although like many here I have vague recollections of him wrestling as one of the "Midnight Rockers" on that really old wrestling show on ESPN where I first learned how to pronounce "Gagne".

A rumored move to Snoredown would seem to indicate WWE's "wisdom" that they need him over there to generate some new sparks and have new rivalries. I can't imagine him going there to suffer in the mid-card, so he should be good for a top 10-12 in total points this season. I would love it if he was my top scorer, but I doubt it.

2.07 Gene Snitsky

I don't like him either, but he was the highest scorer from last year available and figure after all of that push last year they're not going to let him just rot on the vine. He ought to be good for 350+ points this year, which isn't bad for someone who is basically my 5th scorer.
 
65j o s h
      ID: 30344219
      Thu, Apr 21, 2005, 12:55 		Hey, Justin has no problem with Bernie.
You on the other hand...
he'll need a little more gym time.

carry on guys :)
 
66j o s h
      ID: 30344219
      Thu, Apr 21, 2005, 13:16 		I think I found kev
 
67kev
      Donor
      ID: 43111845
      Thu, Apr 21, 2005, 13:17 		before I post it in the draft- does anyone have the wrestler "Melina" by any other name? I searched all three threads, and couldn't find him.

If no one has drafted/kept him, he will be my pick...
 
68Tree
      ID: 76471215
      Thu, Apr 21, 2005, 13:28 		Melina is a SHE, and i believe she is the manager of MNM...
 
69kev
      Donor
      ID: 43111845
      Thu, Apr 21, 2005, 13:34 		alrighty...I heard differently....

considering I have 3 women already, another direction I go!
 
70kev
      Donor
      ID: 43111845
      Thu, Apr 21, 2005, 13:35 		Farn's up. I took Billy Kidman.

My analysis...it seems everyone is getting a shot at the cruiserweight title. I have always liked Billy Kidman...so hopefully he can get his now too.
 
71kev
      Donor
      ID: 43111845
      Thu, Apr 21, 2005, 13:40 		And with that, my draft is done, having traded my 4th rounder for Chris Masters.

Last years team (end year)
RVD/UT/Reigns/Hurricane/Christy/Keibler/Kenzo and Puder

This years team (start)
UT/Reigns/Christy/Keibler/Masters/Angle/Lita and Kidman

To end last year, I had 3 consistant scorers in UT/Reigns/Christy

To start this year, I can put out 6 with a healthy UT, and if UT is hurt, I can throw in Kidman in hopes of a match.

As much as my trades have backfired in the past, I feel like I'm sitting with my deepest lineup yet.
 
72Species
      Leader
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, Apr 21, 2005, 13:41 		ROFL---thanks a LOT, Tree! Shaddup! He might have taken that "dude" Melina and Kidman could've been mine. A simple "No, nobody has Melina" would have sufficed!
 
73Farn
      Sustainer
      ID: 451044109
      Thu, Apr 21, 2005, 13:51 		i'll take the Hulkster for some quick points.
 
74Species
      Leader
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, Apr 21, 2005, 13:51 		I don't know how Rajah.com got this information about Trish & I's in-bed preferences, but since it's public....

WWE diva Trish Stratus gave a very revealing interview to Maxim Magazine. In the May issue she talks about how she likes it between the sheets: “Usually I like it nice and calm and I enjoy being in control. When I’m really into it/enjoying the sex I can moan pretty loudly, I can also go pretty long.” Does she shave? “I’d have to say I have a bush quite often. I guess I’ll get around to shaving/trimming once or twice a month. When I’m busy it could get pretty hairy down there.” Her favorite body-part: “I would have to say my ass. I like my breasts too but I just love my ass , it has always been my favourite and most sexy body part. It’s a great size and it’s very smooth , probably from all the years of working out!” Does she like getting naked? “Actually I walk around my house naked a lot. Especially when I come out of the shower I won’t put on clothes for a long time. Also when I’m taking off my clothes to get into the shower or changing I’ll stay naked for a while. I like being naked and I like body, sometimes when I’m in the mood I’ll just randomly take my clothes off and watch TV or do the laundry naked.”
 
75Tree
      ID: 76471215
      Thu, Apr 21, 2005, 13:53 		i'm pretty sure that the interview above has already been discredited, and never took place.
 
76Species
      Leader
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, Apr 21, 2005, 13:59 		But it sounds good!
 
77Bond,JamesBond@wk
      ID: 15372111
      Thu, Apr 21, 2005, 14:06 		....We'll be back with our movie "Octopussy 2" starring Trish Stratus after these short commercial breaks.

Meanwhile, Farn, what's the latest with Hogan? Is he just signed for just "one more match" or has renewed his contract significantly longer?
 
78Farn
      Sustainer
      ID: 451044109
      Thu, Apr 21, 2005, 14:09 		I can't find anything on his long term status. I think he wants to stay but they want to hold off and see how this match goes and see what the response is.

If I get multiple PPVs out of him I'll be thrilled.
 
79Species
      Leader
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, Apr 21, 2005, 14:11 		Bischoff returns for a third consecutive year(?) to team "This Reeks of Total Awesomeness". He's boring, but might get a PPV match and typically gets you 5-7 points a night. Can always cut him for a more upside guy if need be.
 
80Species
      Leader
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, Apr 21, 2005, 17:25 		Crap. Totally forgot about Kenzo and held a faint hope T. Shane would still be there in Rd. 4.
 
81wiggs
      Donor
      ID: 04991311
      Thu, Apr 21, 2005, 19:50 		i wanted kenzo, but Shane will do.
 
82Mike D
      Sustainer
      ID: 041831612
      Thu, Apr 21, 2005, 20:02 		I had trouble deciding on Kenzo versus Victoria. With Molly Holly leaving, and Trish hurting, I see Lita and Victoria getting decent TV time by default. Plus Victoria has always been a good wrestler, though that doesn't count for much.
 
83Mike D
      Sustainer
      ID: 041831612
      Thu, Apr 21, 2005, 20:24 		And I was also swayed by the RAW/Smackdown issue. I'm still back loaded.
 
84Great One
      ID: 46361920
      Thu, Apr 21, 2005, 20:56 		Kane will be available for trade anyone looking for another RAW guy. I am not a particulary big fan of him.
 
85Mike D
      Sustainer
      ID: 041831612
      Thu, Apr 21, 2005, 21:54 		I had him a couple of seasons ago. I like him, but yeah, he's kinda stale. I like the RAW aspect too. Not real sure where Kane stands value-wise right now.
 
86Mike D
      Sustainer
      ID: 041831612
      Thu, Apr 21, 2005, 21:55 		Which I could say about most anybody. ;)
 
87Tree
      ID: 212401018
      Thu, Apr 21, 2005, 22:02 		man, i dont even have a clue as to which show my guys are on...
 
88Mike D
      Sustainer
      ID: 041831612
      Thu, Apr 21, 2005, 22:07 		You got a 50-50 chance. ;)
 
89Farn
      Sustainer
      ID: 451044109
      Thu, Apr 21, 2005, 22:07 		just incase he doens't know, Goatlocker is on the clock for 2 straight picks to start round 4.
 
90Tree
      ID: 212401018
      Thu, Apr 21, 2005, 22:37 		then MITH, and then me, in a pick i acquired in mine and GO's trade...
 
91GoatLocker
      Sustainer
      ID: 060151121
      Thu, Apr 21, 2005, 22:57 		Guys,
I just got home from work.
Real long day and no chance to check anything.
Give me a few to look and I will pick.
Was hoping Kenzo would make it back to me.

Cliff
 
92Species
      Leader
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, Apr 21, 2005, 23:14 		Cliff - you've got another pick dude. Don't bail on us for the night!
 
93GoatLocker
      Sustainer
      ID: 060151121
      Thu, Apr 21, 2005, 23:39 		I know, give me a couple.
Trying to figure out if I want Sting or Hart.
Or, Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat

Cliff
 
94Tree
      ID: 212401018
      Fri, Apr 22, 2005, 06:32 		great to see the top 3 guys in my queue go over the last 4 picks...
 
95Species
      Leader
      ID: 07724916
      Fri, Apr 22, 2005, 12:05 		2-man queue sent to Farn....will be afk a lot today.
 
96Mike D
      Sustainer
      ID: 41831612
      Fri, Apr 22, 2005, 15:07 		I thought Hardcore would return to his master.......denied by Bond! And then Species took that old fat guy I was considering......lol.
 
97Species
      Leader
      ID: 07724916
      Fri, Apr 22, 2005, 15:10 		Midnight Rockers, bay-beeeeeeeee! They'll teach those young punks, MNM a lesson!
 
98Mike D
      Sustainer
      ID: 41831612
      Fri, Apr 22, 2005, 15:13 		Until Jannetty has a heart attack.....!
 
99Species
      Leader
      ID: 07724916
      Fri, Apr 22, 2005, 15:46 		Just waiting for Mr or Ms. Irrelevent to be drafted, and we're set!
 
100Mike D
      Sustainer
      ID: 41831612
      Fri, Apr 22, 2005, 15:47 		(This draft would have been better if it wasn't a keeper league)

Haha. Had to get that dig in.
 
101Tree
      ID: 9362211
      Fri, Apr 22, 2005, 15:58 		great pick with Kid Kash. i almost took him. with the influx of the cruisers, and the ECW PPV, he's got a solid shot.
 
102wiggs
      Donor
      ID: 04991311
      Fri, Apr 22, 2005, 16:03 		I have been a big fan of him on TNA, although not a fan of Dallas. Heres to hoping he can do something for me.
 
103Species
      Leader
      ID: 07724916
      Fri, Apr 22, 2005, 16:06 		Mike D #100 - it would NOT be a WWE draft if you didn't say that.

That being said, you've got a SWEET team dude.
 
104Mike D
      Sustainer
      ID: 41831612
      Fri, Apr 22, 2005, 16:14 		Thanks. It reeks of sweetness. Man that sounds wimpy.

This.........Is Extreme!
 
105Bond, James Bond
      ID: 503581921
      Fri, Apr 22, 2005, 19:30 		Looks like the draft lasted shy of 72 hours. Is that good? What's the record for the fastest draft? Longest draft?

This may be a good time to discuss the pros and cons of having a draft like ours. For instance, what improvements, if any, would you like to see made? As for me, between my work schedule, family life and whatnot, it was a tad difficult finding time to "check my charts" (sorry GO...but that's a phrase that will live on in drafting lore), trying to make up my mind---a worthless exercise if there was ever one---and trying to figure out who was available that was any good. I don't think I ever did that though! ;)

Nevertheless, I had a very pleasant time. Outside of a couple verbal battles of manhoodology, I think our draft was quite the success. Congrats to all who have taken the time to construct, form and dedicate themselves to this worthy project.

I wish all of you a very successful and fun-packed Season V.
 
106Farn
      Sustainer
      ID: 451044109
      Fri, Apr 22, 2005, 19:44 		one think I'd like to see changed is that the league winner is automatically the last pick. (My proposal is not based on just this season, or any other in particular.)

I think the winner should have the same chance to move up in the draft as others. If he keeps 4 guys with 0 points that should be a factor. I say eliminate the rule that league champion must draft last and subject him (or her, although I doubt that's ever an issue) to the same drafting rules as everybody else.
 
107Bond, James Bond
      ID: 503581921
      Fri, Apr 22, 2005, 20:31 		I'd have no problem with that Farn. Sounds logical to me.
 
108Great One
      ID: 46361920
      Fri, Apr 22, 2005, 20:31 		could do something like give the winner the 6 pick or something just a bit better as a reward...