Self Editor

Forum: gen
Page 931
Subject: Scoring and Rules History 1st Draft

Posted by: Mattinglyinthehall - [217351118] Fri, Sep 17, 2004, 22:08

Look what happens when I stay in on a Friday night :)

Disclaimer - these are MY understanding of the rules as they stand. I did a lot of research and looked for every relevent discussion on every one of these topics. Since there are numerous codes that we stick to that were neer actually voted on, there is obviously still a number of potential issues that different people might have. I think having an official rules bible to refer to and add to as we go can only help. I think we should discuss any problems anyone has with this stuf and possibly add to it as we go and I'll repost a revised version some time in the future after we find some things to hash out.

Match Results¹

Singles pinfall win: +30
Singles DQ/count out win: +18
Singles pinfall loss: +15
Singles DQ/count out loss: +10

Tag Team pinfall win: +25
Tag Team DQ/count out win: +16
Tag Team pinfall loss: +12
Tag Team DQ/count out loss: +10

Any no contest +10

Championship Titles

World/WWE Championship win: +50
Intercontinental Championship win +30
United States Title win +30
Tag Team Championship win: +25
Cruiserweight Championship win: +15
Women Championship win: +15
WWE/World/Intercontinental/US Title Defense: +10
Any Other Title Defense: +5

Other

TV Show Main Event Match +10
TV Show in-ring vignette: +5²
TV Show run-in/nterference: +5³
TV Show backstage interview/vignette: +2 (more than just being there as the camera pans through)⁴
TV Show heel/face turn: +25 (it must be CLEAR)⁵
Guest Hosting: +5⁶
Guest Referee +5⁷

PPV Match: +12 (only awarded once per event and in addition to win, loss or no contest points for the match)⁸
PPV Main Event: +20 (in addition to win, loss or no contest and also PPV match points)⁹
PPV interview: +5
PPV backstage vignette: +5
PPV in-ring vignette: +10
PPV run-in / interference: +10
PPV heel/face turn: +15
PPV Hosting: +5

Other Rules

*Waiver priority trading is allowed. (Voted in here)

*Draft will snake. (Voted in here)

*Draft order is determined as follows (as laid out in post 45 here):

A. using the eligible points of your four keepers, standings are determined. top team is in first, etc etc.

B. add your official finishing position to the number achieved in A.

C. divide that number by two, and the HIGHEST number draft first, and down the line. if there's a tie, it should be determined by standing position.

*First place finish (or whatever sucker he trades his draft pick to) always drafts last and gets first waiver priority. Person who drafts last will collect everyone's keeper lists, to keep the choices secret.

*Deadline for setting our weekly rosters:

7:00PM est Sunday during weeks with a Sunday PPV (assuming the lead-in show starts at that time).
9:00PM est Monday during weeks when there is no Sunday PPV.
(Voted in here)

Foototes^{1. The system is based primarily on the rules that were voted into effect here.

The original format we used can be seen here. That was the finished model which was used for the first 4 weeks of Season 1. It was a revision of this original prototype, generated by mist two days earlier.

The first revisions that were made from the initial, early-Season 1 model were voted into effect here. Most notably among them was awarding positive points rather than negative points for a loss and also included was changing a TV Show WWE/World ttitle win from 75 points to 50.

2. It has been established that a wrestler needs to just come into the ring to get points for being in an in-ring vignette. I can't find a thread where this has been explicitly discussed, but if memory serves it has. As examples, Nathan Jones and Matt Morgan were always awarded vignette points when they came out with Heyman's stable, even though neither of them ever spoke. Similarly, Batista always received in-ring vignette points under similar circumstances when noting else happened.

In some cases when a wrestler (notably Luther Reigns) did not make it to the ring during a vignette, and din't do anything noteworthy from the ramp or outside the ring, he gets no points.

If someone takes the mike, he gets the points as discussed here.

Except for show hosts. A show host must get more involved than simply making an announcement or giving an interview in the ring to earn in-ring vignette points, as discussed in posts 4 - 10 here.

However, if an announcer or show host is attacked outside the ring or mixes it up anywhere in the arena (not backstage) he becomes involved in an interference.

Discussed here in posts 1 - 8 and posts 18 and thereafter.

3. Standards for in-ring interferences are discussed in posts 21 - 33 here.

Also noteworthy is a brief rules question addressed in posts 1 and 8 here about whether helping an opponent or friend back into the ring constitutes an interference.

4. To qualify for backstage vignette points, a wrestler must be one of the subjects of the shot. A quick pan through does not count, unless there is only one person there. Anyone who speaks (unless its a crowd people talking over each other) gets points. Vignettes that are presented as pretaped ("Nunzio and Stamboli from earlier tonight...") do not get points.

Standards were originally voted on here.

Some relevant discussions on the topic:
Posts 2, 3 and 7 - 11 here.
Posts 5 - 19 here.

5. Heel/Face turns were changed from 10 points (as they had stood since the league's inception as written in the original scoring format) to 25 points in a vote that took place here.

The earliest discussion I could find for exactly what constitutes a turn is in posts 0 through 14 here. I believe that discussion accurately reflects the standards we have applied for awarding turn points. Another extensive face/heel turn discussion that might provew useful can be found here.

Also worth noting is that shortly before face/heel turns were changed to 25 points, there was a failed proposal to abolish them.

6.Also, it appears that in Week 1 of Season III, we began awarding in-ring vignette points for guest hosts (not stand-ins for a whole show, just people who sit in at the table with the regular announcers). This is likely a result of the acceptance of the idea that if you take the mike, you get points. This understanding has continued to be applied.

7. We also started warding guest referees 5 points instead of 2 (as were the former rules) during week 1 of Season III. The only discussion I can find on the issue too place in posts 32, 58 - 60

8. Guest referee points were discussed (not voted on) in posts 59 & 60 here.}

Farn
Sustainer
ID: 451044109
Fri, Sep 17, 2004, 22:19

bless your heart MITH.

I would like to vote MITH for Gurupie of the Week.

Bond, James Bond
ID: 31881419
Sat, Sep 18, 2004, 00:12

An excellent resource indeed! Very well done and very much appreciated MITH. Really good job.

GoatLocker
Sustainer
ID: 060151121
Sat, Sep 18, 2004, 10:49

Naw, I think it should be MITH for Gurupie of the Month....
Great job and thanks for all your work and effort.
Sorry I'm not more proactive in here guys, but trying to balance a lot of things right now.

Cliff

Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 217351118
Sun, Sep 19, 2004, 08:22

Thanks for the compliments, but what I'm really wondering is if anyone takes any issue with any of my interpretations of rules or sees or knows of anything that I might have left out.

Mike D
Sustainer
ID: 041831612
Sun, Sep 19, 2004, 08:32

Haven't read it all yet, but under Other Rules it says "Draft will snake," when it should say "Draft will not snake" or "Draft will be straight."

Bond, James Bond
ID: 31881419
Sun, Sep 19, 2004, 18:13

Not sure I can add anything of value but here goes. From a rookie's point of view I am concerned that there may be too many point compilations to worry about.

Obviously we should always stress the importance of the matches themselves but how necessary are the points given for in-ring vignettes, interference, backstage interviews, guest hosting and things of that nature?

Mind you I am not trying to ruffle any feathers here. I'm okay with the point system as is if everybody else is. Just wondering whether "less would be more" in a sense.

Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 217351118
Mon, Sep 20, 2004, 06:22

Bond I think the thinking behind the points for vignettes and interferences and whatnot is based in the idea that during any TV show, only about half the time, if that, is dedicated to actual wrestling. Further, usually less than half the people who appear on the show are involved in matches. If we only awarded points for matchesprobably more than a full third of the wrestlers on some of our rosters would be pretty much useless and the better teams would have more of a runaway.

I see that I messed up the last footnote. The link I provided should go with #7. I wanted to point out the discussion about whether those 12 PPV points should be awarded for each match a wrestler is in at a particular event.

Also I should put in a footnote about the +20 PPV Main event points. When those points were voted in, I'm pretty sure that the language was clear that the wrestler would gat that +20 instead of the +12, but iirc, we started awarding both PPV points and ME points (thus +32) have have continued to do so since.

I also forgot to include the battle royale scoring, the discussions about awarding 5 points to everyone outside in a lumberjack match and I also believe there was a duscussion about how to handle a gauntet match.

blue hen
ID: 372102211
Mon, Sep 20, 2004, 18:10

During the first season, when we were reviewing the rules, Eddy and Chavo had an entire 5 minute cartoon devoted to them, and we didn't have a way to score it. And then there was Jericho fighting a 25 minute match, losing, and getting fewer points than Nunzio, who shook Vince's hand (and wasn't seen again).

Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 217351118
Mon, Sep 20, 2004, 18:20

We've since rectified both issues, Hen. Those promos, like the Eddie & Chavo cartoon and similar ones like we've see with FBI and others and taped promos like we've recently seen from Mordecai and Kenzo Suzuki and Calito Colon don't get any points. It only gets points if it is presented "as live" on the show. I believe we established that while you were still in the league. It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to find a discussion on that issue and put it here.

The other issue, the scoring of negative points for a loss was changed after Week 4 of Season 1. That is documented in our first footnote.

blue hen
ID: 372102211
Mon, Sep 20, 2004, 18:23

I went looking but couldn't find anything good. Those are good resolutions, obviously.

Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 217351118
Tue, Sep 21, 2004, 11:42

Second draft:

Match Results¹

Singles pinfall win: +30
Singles DQ/count out win: +18
Singles pinfall loss: +15
Singles DQ/count out loss: +10

Tag Team pinfall win: +25
Tag Team DQ/count out win: +16
Tag Team pinfall loss: +12
Tag Team DQ/count out loss: +10

Any no contest +10

Championship Titles²

World/WWE Championship win: +50
Intercontinental Championship win +30
United States Title win +30
Tag Team Championship win: +25
Cruiserweight Championship win: +15
Women Championship win: +15
WWE/World Title Defense: +12
Intercontinental/US Title Defense: +10
Tag Team Title Defense: +8
Any Other Title Defense: +5

Other

TV Show Main Event Match +10
TV Show in-ring vignette: +5³
TV Show run-in/nterference: +5⁴
TV Show backstage interview/vignette: +2 (more than just being there as the camera pans through)⁵
TV Show heel/face turn: +25 (it must be CLEAR)⁶
Guest Hosting: +5⁷
Guest Referee +5⁸

PPV Match: +12 (only awarded once per event and in addition to win, loss or no contest points for the match)⁹
PPV Main Event: +20 (in addition to win, loss or no contest and also PPV match points)¹⁰
PPV interview: +5
PPV backstage vignette: +5
PPV in-ring vignette: +10
PPV run-in / interference: +10
PPV heel/face turn: +15
PPV Hosting: +5

Royal Rumble Scoring Formula¹¹

Elimination rank (winning = 50)
- (minus) Entrance rank
+ (plus) # of wrestlers eliminated
+ (plus) 25 points

There is no 12 point PPV match bonus for Rumble participants unless the wrestler is in another match.

Battle Royale Scoring¹²

Winner gets 30 points.
2nd gets 20
3rd gets 19
4th gets 18
5th gets 17
on down to 12th place and everyone lower than that, who each get 10 points.

If the battle royale is the main event, only the final 25% of contestants (rounded up) will get the extra main event points, with a minimum of 2 wrestlers (I can't imagine a 5-man battle royale but just in case). So, in a...
10-12 man royale, the final 3 get ME points.
13-16 man royale, the final 4 get ME points.
17-20, the final 5.
21-24, the final 6, etc.

Other Rules

*Waiver priority trading is allowed. (Voted in here)

*Draft will always be straight. (Voted in here)

*Draft order is determined as follows (as laid out in post 45 here):

A. using the eligible points of your four keepers, standings are determined. top team is in first, etc etc.

B. add your official finishing position to the number achieved in A.

C. divide that number by two, and the HIGHEST number draft first, and down the line. if there's a tie, it should be determined by standing position.

7:00PM est Sunday during weeks with a Sunday PPV (assuming the lead-in show starts at that time).
9:00PM est Monday during weeks when there is no Sunday PPV. This was
Voted in here.

*Lumberjacks always get interference points. This was established in the first Lumberjack Match the league had seen and has been consistently applied since. The issue was also discussed in this thread.

1. The system is based primarily on the rules that were voted into effect here.
The original format we used can be seen here. That was the finished model which was used for the first 4 weeks of Season 1. It was a revision of this original prototype, generated by mist two days earlier.
The first revisions that were made from the initial, early-Season 1 model were voted into effect here. Most notably among them was awarding positive points rather than negative points for a loss

2. TV Show WWE/World title wins were changed from from 75 points to 50 points in the same vote as the scoring changes in item 1. Changes were made to Title Defense bonuses in a vote that took place here

3. It has been established that a wrestler needs to just come into the ring to get points for being in an “in-ring vignette”. At the time of this writing, I can't find a thread where this has been explicitly discussed, but if memory serves it has. As examples, Nathan Jones and Matt Morgan were always awarded vignette points when they came out with Heyman's stable, even though neither of them ever spoke. Similarly, Batista always received in-ring vignette points under similar circumstances when noting else happened.
In some cases when a wrestler (notably Luther Reigns) did not make it to the ring during a vignette, and didn't do anything noteworthy from the ramp or outside the ring, he gets no points. It has been established that if someone takes the mike inside or outside of the ring, he gets the points as discussed here. The “mike rule” does not apply to the regular show hosts. A show host must get more involved than simply making an announcement or giving an interview in the ring to earn “in-ring vignette” points, as discussed in posts 4 - 10 here. However, if an announcer or show host is attacked outside the ring or mixes it up anywhere in the arena (not backstage) he becomes involved in an “interference”, worth the usual 5 points (10 if during a PPV), as
discussed here in posts 1 - 8 and posts 18 and thereafter.

4. Standards for “interferences” are discussed in posts 21 - 33 here. Primarily, someone who is not already involved in a match must either mix it up with someone (such as the announcers or other person outside the ring) or have some kind of impact on the match (such as cause enough of a distraction to keep a wrestler or referee from seeing something notable, for example) in order to have committed an “interference”. Also noteworthy is a brief rules question addressed in posts 1 and 8 here about whether helping an opponent or friend back into the ring constitutes an “interference”.

5. To qualify for “backstage vignette” points, a wrestler must be one of the subjects of the shot. A quick pan through does not count, unless there is only one person there. Anyone who speaks (unless its a crowd people talking over each other) gets points. Vignettes that are presented as pretaped ("Nunzio and Stamboli from earlier tonight...") do not get points. Standards for “backstage vignettes” were originally voted on here. Also, here are some relevant discussions on the topic:
Posts 2, 3 and 7 - 11 here.
Posts 5 - 19 here.

6. “Heel/Face turns” were changed from 10 points (as they had stood since the league's inception as written in the original scoring format) to 25 points in a vote that took place here. The earliest known discussion for exactly what constitutes a turn is in posts 0 through 14 here. I believe that discussion accurately reflects the standards we have applied for awarding turn points. Another extensive “face/heel turn” discussion that might prove useful can be found here. Also worth noting is that shortly before “face/heel turns” were changed to 25 points, there was a failed proposal to abolish them.

7.Also, it appears that in Week 1 of Season III, we began awarding 5 points for guest hosts - not the regular hosts/announcer or stand-ins for a whole show, just people who sit in at the table with the regular announcers. This is likely a result of the acceptance of the “in-ring vignette” theory that if you take the mike, you should logically get points. This understanding has continued to be applied.

8. We also started warding guest referees 5 points instead of 2 (as were the former rules) during week 1 of Season III. The only discussion I can find on the issue too place in posts 32, 58 - 60

9. The issue of whether the 12 points for being in a PPV match is attributed to each of a wrestler’s matches in the PPV or just once (in the case of a wrestler being in multiple matches) was discussed and officially voted on here.

10. When the league voted in the major Season 1 changes to what became the basis for the current scoring model, it was originally stated and voted in item #10 that the 20 point award for being in a PPV main event was intended to replace the 12 point PPV match bonus, not to be added to it. However, almost immediately after the rules were in place, and with consistency ever since, both bonuses have been awarded to every PPV main event wrestler. This issue was also noted in post 3 of this thread.

11. Like most of the rest of the scoring format, the original Royal Rumble scoring formula was recorded in Mist’s original league rules thread and then also established in Tree’s finished model. After the Season 1 Rumble, we realized some flaws in the results, seen and discussed here. Royal Rumble rules changes were proposed and voted in here.

12. The first Battle Royale in the league took place at the 6/30.03 Raw, which was Week 25 of Season 1. There was no format, so the scorer (Mist) used his discretion and gave each participant 10 points and the winner (Gail Kim) 40 points, including an extra10 for winning the women’s title. The next one, 7 months later on SD used the same format. In Week 8, Season II, we discussed and implemented a new format, detailed in post 7 here. Flaws in that format were recognized and discussed here and in posts 5, 11 and 12 here. That led to a new scoring format, which was officially voted in in here

Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 217351118
Tue, Sep 21, 2004, 16:00

I think this looks pretty good. I'll leave it up a week or so and then I'll delete this thread and post it in a clean thread. I'd like for everyone to try to give the whole thing a once-over, to see if I may have made any mistakes or forgotten anything or missed any important votes or discussions or if you don't agree with any of my interpretations.

Bond, James Bond
ID: 518582022
Tue, Sep 21, 2004, 23:55

Awesome work MITH. Looks great.

Bond, James Bond
ID: 518582022
Fri, Oct 01, 2004, 01:42

Not sure where to throw out this idea so I thought this was as good as place as any.

I imagine that, like me, you anticipate who the first superstar will be to walk through the curtain on each Raw and/or Smackdown. Can we give bonus points for this? Maybe 5 points?

I realize that at times the superstar(s) may already be in the ring so that would work as well.
5 points for each "curtain-jerker" that appears at the very onset of the show. What'cha think?

Great One@Work
ID: 40822239
Fri, Oct 01, 2004, 08:56

show opens with HHH in the ring with a mic
- bonus - Its a significant event and honor in the show.

Like a reverse main event.

I could see it... probably be too difficult to score though - since all of Evolution could be in there - or JR could be there with the mic and would intro the guy.

Mike D
Sustainer
ID: 41831612
Fri, Oct 01, 2004, 09:00

curtain-jerker? Sick Bond. Very sick. ;)

Usually many people end up coming down.....it certainly could be limited to the 1st person/people to enter though. I'm fine either way.

Farn
Sustainer
ID: 451044109
Fri, Oct 01, 2004, 09:04

I like that concept, but to that end I would say let's make it 3 points. That way if the show opens with all of Evolution we aren't dealing out 15 points. Anybody who is in the ring as it hits air or the first "group" to come through at once gets them.

Ex. If Evolution rolls out first give all 3 3 points each. But if HHH comes out first, then talks, then bring Flair and Batista down, only HHH gets the points.

I love the idea Bond. Love it.

Great One@Work
ID: 40822239
Fri, Oct 01, 2004, 10:49

like I said... its like a Reverse Main Event - and an integral (and symbolic) part of the sports entertainment programming.

blue hen
ID: 26957123
Sat, Oct 02, 2004, 02:07

I think that's a good idea, for what it's worth. Easy to track and clearly significant.

Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 217351118
Sat, Oct 02, 2004, 08:10

I like the idea too. A few questions;
How many points for he first person out on a PPV?
What if the show strats with Lillian Garcia already in the ring and she announces Vince MacMahon who comes down to the ring? Who gets the points?
What if the show starts of with Evolution or the Dudleys or some other group coming down the ramp? Do we award all of them points or just the one who stepped out first?
If the latter, what if, say, the show starts with Big Show steping out from behind the curtain and before he gets two steps he is ambushed by Jindrak and Reigns?

Bond, James Bond
ID: 518582022
Sat, Oct 02, 2004, 10:29

Glad you like the idea gents. We can make it as convoluted or as simple as you want. I have no problem either way. I have no problem rewarding 3 points instead of 5, just whatever ya'll decide.

We can either give the points to the person(s) who:

a.) First appears in the ring
b.) First has their theme music played
c.) First appears from behind the curtain
d.) Other scenerio that I've forgotten

Now here's my follow-up thoughts:
--For what it's worth, there have been scenerios played out where a superstar comes out using another superstar's theme music. Might have to take this into consideration.

--Lilian Garcia, Jim Ross, The King, Michael Cole and Tazz should all be excluded from opening points because their purpose at the beginning of a show is simply to introduce and/or commentate. The purpose of the points given for "curtain-jerkers" is because it is an honor and privilege (in my view anyway) to be the first performer to appear.

--Each member of a faction, group, etc. should be given equal points IF they all come out together. Otherwise, the first person to appear gets the points.

--At the risk of being confrontational and causing further controversy, these points should only be reflected for non-PPV's. My feeling is that the PPV's are scheduled for the least important match to appear first. This is NOT an honor and should not be rewarded as such.

I'm certain there are other situations that have come up that I've forgotten. Feel free to critique my thoughts in anyway necessary.

Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 217351118
Sat, Oct 02, 2004, 10:39

What about if Coach introduces someone (say, Vince or Bischoff)? Or if Torrie or Christy or Stacy does an introduaction? Like I said I definitely like the idea but I think we should get all this squared away to avoid potential disagreements later.

Bond, James Bond
ID: 518582022
Sat, Oct 02, 2004, 21:50

I'm open to suggestions, MITH, in regards to Coach and Company. Not sure what the defining line can/should be but I think there's a definite need for one. But then again, maybe not.

We could make it as simple as awarding points to the first superstar we see no matter what or make it as complex as is necessary. Any thoughts?

My viewpoint is that if we start off with someone along the lines of a Bischoff in the ring, he/she/they should be credited with the points. But if it's a Ross or Garcia type, no way.

However, if by some miracle, a Ross or Garcia type come out from the back first....Titantron and all...then yes, they should get the points.

Better yet, how about granting 3 points to the person(s) we first see in the ring, NO MATTER WHOM and then--only in the case of an introduction--granting another 3 points to the person(s) they introduce? Or to the person(s) that interrupt them?

blue hen
ID: 372102211
Mon, Oct 04, 2004, 15:05

I think they usually say things like...

"Evolution"

or

"Triple H
with Evolution"

Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Mon, Oct 04, 2004, 17:32

I also like the concept but am too lazy to read the whole thread and comment. When an official proposal comes up, I'll read it then! ;-)(

slosh23
ID: 317242216
Tue, Oct 05, 2004, 02:48

Not to take away from blue hen's credit here...but, well neither of us are playing.

From an observer's point of view, and someone that has been watching the league (and one who was going to ask about a spot until this hoser JB came in ; )...), I would like to give my opinion. Points (3 sounds good) for the first titantron theme entrance in a non PPV event. If a group (stable) walks out under a theme then points for all. I think that makes everything simple...score extra for the first entrance music and who comes out under it.

Mike D
Sustainer
ID: 41831612
Tue, Oct 05, 2004, 08:15

I think we should subtract points when the opening segment goes too freakin' long!!!!

slosh, you fit right in with this group bro. Not that that's a compliment or anything. More like a sentence. ;)

Bond,JamesBond@work
ID: 46933511
Tue, Oct 05, 2004, 13:34

re28.....Did I just get called a "hoser"? ;) Not sure what that means so I guess all is good. lol

In simplified terms, the concept brought forth by slosh23 seems to be the best under the current climate of the WWE. Understandably, there will be times when a superstar like Jericho or Flair or any other number of individuals may be in the ring before the show goes on the air. However, for the masses, nothing matches the anticipation than for the first titantron music to sound ushering in the first superstar(s) to come in from the back.

As such, I'm proposing that we allow 3 points for the first curtain-jerker(s) that appears following the first titantron theme music.

Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 2824911
Tue, Oct 05, 2004, 13:40

We could call it the "first non-introductory arena appearance" of the show, if that embodies what you are going for. That way, if HHH or Y2J is already in the ring when the show starts, they still get the points, unless you are saying that it shouldn't work that way. Now, under that explanation, if Bishoff is in the ring to introduce someone, then it would be whoever comes out that gets the points, not Bischoff, I assume.

Bond,JamesBond@work
ID: 46933511
Tue, Oct 05, 2004, 14:12

My point is that if someone is already in the ring when the show starts, then they should NOT receive any points at all. We should want to honor suspense and frankly there is no suspense in that situation and therefore should not be rewarded.

Under my proposal, points should only be distributed to the first person(s) that come out from the back WITH a titantron theme song playing--whether or not it's their own theme song. This would be only be for RAW and Smackdown, not any PPV.

If this is not suitable, I am more than willing to rework it to however you guys want.

Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 2824911
Tue, Oct 05, 2004, 14:15

I can't say I'm sure which way I think is better.

Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Wed, Oct 06, 2004, 12:17

I'm cool with first titantron intro/theme music gets 3 points. I think it goes with our "points for pushes" theme.....there is a definite reason that the WWE puts a specific person out there first, and that should garner points. This is especially true when Monday Night Football is on - RAW goes balls out to try to set up a big first match to keep as many of those viewers as possible.

Bond,JamesBond@work
ID: 509391211
Tue, Oct 12, 2004, 13:41

I'm a little perplexed at how to get a proper vote at any proposal that is being proposed. Are there currently any rules of order that I should be aware of in order to bring any proposal to a league vote? If adopted, when would any passed proposal go in effect?

I'm thinking it might be best to have an official "proposal page" of sorts to bring any league proposal to a proper vote. Or is there a different yet better way to handle this?

Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 2824911
Tue, Oct 12, 2004, 13:47

I don't believe we ever established how many votes it takes to change a rule since we pared the league down to 10 teams. I think it is established that only a majority is required to interpret a rule. I believe that when we had 12 teams, it took 8 votes to change a rule, so going by that, 7 votes in our 10 team league would be close.

Bond,JamesBond@work
ID: 509391211
Tue, Oct 12, 2004, 14:01

7 out of 10 makes sense. Since it's pretty much impossible to get us altogether at the same time, does a proposal have to include all 10 members or can it just pass once we reach 7 that agree to the proposal?

Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 2824911
Tue, Oct 12, 2004, 14:05

It passes once we reach 7.

Mike D
Sustainer
ID: 41831612
Tue, Oct 12, 2004, 14:49

"I think it is established that only a majority is required to interpret a rule."

I always thought that was it....majority. Maybe we should vote on this. ;)

wiggs
Donor
ID: 04991311
Tue, Oct 12, 2004, 14:56

Species, Tree is trying to get ahold of you for the keeper hoops league. Check the basketball thread or email him when you get a chance.

Bond,JamesBond@work
ID: 329431310
Wed, Oct 13, 2004, 12:48

Ok guys, which is it? Majority rules or 7 out of 10? In a bit of a irony, I'm with whatever the majority sides with here. LOL

On a side note, I'd still like to know how to officially propose an idea for a league vote. Apparently, the ideas that I've thrown around either haven't been noticed by all parties or there is just not enough interest to pass a judgement on. Any help here would certainly be much appreciated.

Mike D
Sustainer
ID: 41831612
Wed, Oct 13, 2004, 12:51

Start a new thread regarding the proposal. Outline it, ask for a vote.

And make sure you have obtained the proper permit.

Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 2824911
Wed, Oct 13, 2004, 12:54

I'd say lets go with 7 since that seems to make the most sense and nobody raised issue with that number. If anyone has a problem with that then we'll settle that issue first.

Just be as specific as possible. Its a good idea to include the word "proposal" in the title of the thread so that it will be easy to find later.

Bond,JamesBond@work
ID: 329431310
Wed, Oct 13, 2004, 13:09

Ok.... thanks for help guys. I'm going to start a new thread and hopefully it'll be sufficient. If not, let me know.

For what it's worth, my vote goes to 7 out of 10 also.

Farn
Sustainer
ID: 451044109
Mon, Dec 13, 2004, 14:02

butt

we should probably add the 24hr rule to this to make it official.

Farn
Sustainer
ID: 451044109
Mon, Jan 24, 2005, 22:25

butt'ing with a question.....

How will we score the Royal Rumble if its the Main Event? Does each participant get Main Event points? Or only the last few?

HHH indicated it may be the Main Event so we should cover that base before it gets to us.

wiggs
ID: 540421611
Mon, Jan 24, 2005, 23:20

i believe it was given main event points last year, but i am not positive.

Farn
Sustainer
ID: 451044109
Tue, Jan 25, 2005, 00:06

last year we did give ME points to everybody entered.

But since then we have had discussion about changing it. Those are located here.

Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 43021239
Tue, Jan 25, 2005, 06:42

That discussion was really all about battle royales, not the Rumble, in spite of the title. There was some discussion in last year's Rumble scoring thread about whether the Rumble should be scored as the Main Event. That discussion also took place in part here.

At this point we don't know if the Rumble will be the ME, so if we're going to change that, we should do it now. I think I'm OK with that idea, but we have decide how we will what the actual main event will be, if the Rumble is the last match.

Farn, I think this one is your ball. You're the one who has raised the issue in the past and again now. Lets hope we can get a little discussion on this for a feel for what the league consensus might be and then get a proposal out.

My personal opinion is that the Rumble should not be handled like battle royales, with the last 25% geting ME points and no one else, because unlike a battle royale, everyone is not equal in the Rumble. Guys who enter 2nd and get eliminated with 8 remaining performed much better than someone who entered 24th and got eliminated with 6 remaining. IMO, main event points should go to all or none. After that, I think I tend toward Farn, that the Rumble probably shouldn't be the main event.

Bond, James Bond
ID: 5032423
Wed, Jan 26, 2005, 00:08

I concur MITH.

Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 2824911
Wed, Jan 26, 2005, 13:44

That's it? 3 opinions?

Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 2824911
Wed, Jan 26, 2005, 14:04

Great One chimed in via email:

i agree NOT everyone should recieve main event points. Last 25% seems about right.

cause seriously - should Scotty 2 Hotty really get extra for being tossed after 2 seconds like he surely will.

Bond,JamesBond@wk.
ID: 280562611
Wed, Jan 26, 2005, 14:10

Was it ever determined that the Trading Deadline issue is now considered official? And if so, what are the new trading deadline dates? I'm looking to trade Batista et al for the best offers out there but need to know what dates we're looking at. Thanks.

Mattinglyinthehall
Leader
ID: 01629107
Thu, Apr 07, 2005, 19:29

bump

Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 25337239
Fri, May 27, 2005, 07:19

bump

Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 2824911
Mon, Sep 12, 2005, 13:46

Bump - remember correct table in post 13.

Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Thu, Oct 13, 2005, 15:26

Bump for slosh or gunz, whoever will be our new member.

Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Tue, Nov 22, 2005, 13:47

Bump for myself for scoring purposes.

wiggs
Donor
ID: 04991311
Tue, Nov 22, 2005, 13:51

Just out of curiousity, why did we decide to have tag team wins count as less then singles?

IT almost makes singles wrestlers alot more valuable then a tag team.

Tree
Sustainer
ID: 599393013
Tue, Nov 22, 2005, 14:08

you pretty much nailed it there Wiggs. Singles wrestlers, generally speaking, are more valuable than tag team wrestlers.

Mattinglyinthehall
Leader
ID: 01629107
Tue, Nov 22, 2005, 14:12

why did we decide to have tag team wins count as less then singles?

I included footnotes complete with links for every league rule. You should be able to trace back to every original discussion that led to our scoring format at the time that I put this together.

Mattinglyinthehall
Leader
ID: 01629107
Tue, Nov 22, 2005, 14:44

Found it - in a thread that isn't linked here. Tree was actually the one who suggested the change to 25 pts for a tag win from 20 points proposed by Mist in his original scoring draft.

wiggs
Donor
ID: 04991311
Tue, Nov 22, 2005, 15:43

i knew it was accuate. I just didnt know if there was a reason for it.

Basically what made me think about it is

Are Big Show and Kane less valuable at tag team champs then they would be if they just remained singles wrestlers?

Cade and Murdock less valuable then say Mickie james and victoria? Both Ladies are ranked high then the men. While it is true the ladies are much easier to look at, should they be more valuable in the fantasy league?

Just some food for thought.

Farn
Sustainer
ID: 451044109
Tue, Nov 22, 2005, 15:50

I think tag wrestlers score less because in general they probably do less work and get less reaction from the crowd. They can spend a share of the match on the apron doing nothing. Rarely do tag matches have the same high profile results that singles matches can have. And the crowd tends to see it as a match that isn't as important as a singles match too.

I think the difference in points is a reflection on the way the WWE itself views the wrestlers as well. Tag wrestlers rarely get the same respect as singles wrestlers. An exception may be Kane and Show but I think we are all pretty certain they aren't a longterm combo. More than likely they are setting up a feud for those 2 down the road. But in general tag wrestlers don't garner the same respect as singles wrestlers in the company and the same is probably reflected in our league.

As for the women, I agree, in most cases their matches have far less importance than the tag matches of the guys. But we can't really score them differently because it would be a nightmare to score and making exceptions in scoring rules can't work.

wiggs
Donor
ID: 04991311
Tue, Nov 22, 2005, 16:04

Farn, I totally agree with everything you said in that post.

My point kind of was to make every win and every loss worth the same amount of points. Then there are no exceptions.

And like I said, I am not arguing this at all. Just wondering if anyone else feels the same about it. There are not alot of tag teams out there right now so it really isnt a huge deal.

Tree
Sustainer
ID: 599393013
Tue, Nov 22, 2005, 16:58

my feelings on this is that the most important title in a wrestling company is almost always the main singles title, not the main tag titles.

thusly, singles wrestlers have more value.

Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Wed, Jan 04, 2006, 17:27

BUTT-ing this thread as I don't want it to drop off the main page, and I'm scoring SD! from week 10.

Farn
Sustainer
ID: 451044109
Mon, Feb 20, 2006, 15:00

bump back to page 1 for those who score while I'm gone

blue hen
ID: 38135621
Tue, Feb 21, 2006, 11:16

I would say Mickie James is MUCH more valuable than Lance Cade to the WWE right now.

It'll never happen, but you should get points for match length. Or at least for commercial breaks during your match. But who the hell would want to score THAT?

Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Tue, Apr 04, 2006, 16:25

Bumping up for my own use.

Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Mon, May 01, 2006, 12:02

Bumping

Species
ID: 295302411
Sun, Jul 16, 2006, 20:33

Bumpage

wiggs
Donor
ID: 04991311
Fri, Aug 04, 2006, 00:22

when does this season end?

Great One
ID: 523121411
Fri, Aug 04, 2006, 07:41

October I believe.

Tree
ID: 1411442914
Fri, Aug 04, 2006, 08:58

crap. i gotta hold you bozos off for 2 more months?!?!

wiggs
Donor
ID: 04991311
Fri, Aug 04, 2006, 12:13

oh, I thought we did it after summerslam. I was hoping.

Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Fri, Aug 04, 2006, 12:32

As posted in Looking Ahead to Season VII thread, our schedule:

Season VII
Backlash 4/30 (Raw)
Judgement Day 5/21 (Smackdown)
ECW One Night Stand 6/11
Vengeance 6/25 (Raw)
Great American Bash 7/23 (Smackdown)
Summerslam 8/27
Unforgiven 9/17 (Raw)
No Mercy 10/8 (Smackdown)

After the Friday (or whatever day it airs) airing of Smackdown on 10/13 the Season is over. We take 2 weeks to redraft and reorganize and Season 8 starts on 10/29. We could move that up a week if need be but this is a safer move. Season 8 would then run through Wrestlemania.

Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Mon, Aug 21, 2006, 18:07

Pushing this up even higher for our possible new manager to review.

Farn
Leader
ID: 451044109
Thu, Nov 02, 2006, 11:42

How To Post A Spreadsheet from Excel

Here's how I do it. Could be other ways but I'm slow and stick to this one.

1. Put all your data or whatever into the spreadsheet.
2. Hit Save.
3. Drag your mouse to highlight the section you want to post. Highlight it completely.
4. Click on File. Choose "Save As Webpage".
5. Hit the "Selection:Sheet" button"
6. Save it with any name you want.
7. Open your web browser (Firefox, Explorer)
8. Click File in your web browser.
9. Choose "Open File"
10. Find the file you saved and open it.
11. Right click on that newly opened file in your web browser and choose "view source".
12. At the top of the Windows Notepad that opens click "Edit" and choose "Select All".
13. Hit "Control-Copy" on your keyboard.
14. Close Notepad
15. Go to Rotoguru and find the thread you want to put it in; either a new thread or an existing one.
16. Hit "Control-Paste" on your keyboard in the thread box you post in.
17. Click the "yes" button below the thread box that says "(for HTML table input)".
17. Post it.

Great One
ID: 539581613
Thu, Nov 02, 2006, 13:14

Thanks Farn - I just tested and I think I was successful. I'll try for next week.

Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Tue, Nov 14, 2006, 17:00

11. Right click on that newly opened file in your web browser and choose "view source".
12. At the top of the Windows Notepad that opens click "Edit" and choose "Select All".

The default setting for Excel is to "center" the results. I always scroll down in notepad during step 12 and change that to "align=left" instead of the default "align=center." Then I proceed with step 12, and "save" when exiting to save the change. This helps when posting in rotoguru (see GO's recent posting of the scores----it was reeeall wide).

Thanks to all of you for helping with this....

Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Tue, Nov 14, 2006, 17:25

Thanks Mike D.

BTW Farn - you gave me a jab about missing step 17 in the instructions (hitting the "Ignore Line Feeds" button) - but there are TWO number 17's. Since I was flipping between screens to read the instructions, I skipped the first "17." and went to the last step! lol

wiggs
Donor
ID: 04991311
Sat, Nov 25, 2006, 14:22

how long do you have to wait for a waive claim? is it 24 hours or 48?

Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Sat, Nov 25, 2006, 20:31

Forum: genPage 931Subject: Scoring and Rules History 1st Draft

Forum: gen
Page 931
Subject: Scoring and Rules History 1st Draft